Garmin 496 v iPad with ForeFlight

nddons

nddons

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Stan
Looking at used aircraft, it seems that too many panels have been abused by dropping a Garmin 296, 496, etc. into the panel. It's hideous looking. But are they still valuable tools, or are they obsolete?

In the era of iPads, ForeFlight, XM Weather, ADS-B, etc., are those in-the-panel bricks really necessary any longer? What do they offer that you can't get with an iPad and a few apps?

Obviously, I've never used one, so please tell me if I'm off base.
 
Well actually they work just fine. I'm not sure why people think they need to have this giant screen with a pictorial sectional chart for nav information. The Garmin provides everything you need to know in a handy, compact and securely mounted package. No wires, batteries, antennas, huge tablets or other unnecessary paraphernalia floating freely about the cabin. I don't have an ipad and I'm not interested in having one. For me it would be un-unwieldy, cumbersome burden.

DSCN1223.JPG
 
I have a 496,and the I pad with Foreflight and stratus. The 496 with weather was a great device when introduced.,still have it as a backup for panel ,if I loose electric.. Prefer to fly with the I pad with stratus, like both as they are portable and can go from one aircraft to another.
 
The 496 is an aviation GPS. An iPad is an EFB. The 496 is superior for navigation, an iPad is a superior AFD.

I agree the panel mounted bricks are hideous looking.
 
I have a 496. It hasn't been in my airplane since I quit flying with my business and dropped the wx subscription...about 2.5 years now.

I have an ipad. I goes with me on every flight.
 
I have both and love them . Kind of a belt & suspenders deal for me in my personal plane. Fly a couple of birds that have a portable coupled to a 430 .
 
IMHO, the IPad with Foreflight, especially factoring in the cost, is the winner.

I do INDEED agree that hacking up a panel, even neatly and professionally for a 496 or the like, ends up being a total eyesore.
 
Texastaildragger said:
I have both and love them . Kind of a belt & suspenders deal for me in my personal plane. Fly a couple of birds that have a portable coupled to a 430 .
Click to expand...

Yup, 496 on the yoke, iPad with FF in the cabin as well.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I do INDEED agree that hacking up a panel, even neatly and professionally for a 496 or the like, ends up being a total eyesore.
Click to expand...

I guess I don't see the issue. I'm pretty sure it fits in a standard width stack...just like a 430 would. So, really, what's being hacked up?

I certainly don't think they look bad.

And if you buy a plane with one installed and don't like it then just drop in a 430.

It's only money!
 
can I just ask ROUGHLY what a 430 costs to purchase and have installed? general ballpark please.
 
timwinters said:
I guess I don't see the issue. I'm pretty sure it fits in a standard width stack...just like a 430 would. So, really, what's being hacked up?

I certainly don't think they look bad.

And if you buy a plane with one installed and don't like it then just drop in a 430.

It's only money!
Click to expand...


The ones that I've seen are not nearly as nicely installed as the one in Silvaire's photograph.

It's only money if you have the money to start with. I don't buy anything that I can't pay cash for, and I don't have that much surplus cash that I'm willing to part with.
 
frfly172 said:
I have a 496,and the I pad with Foreflight and stratus. The 496 with weather was a great device when introduced.,still have it as a backup for panel ,if I loose electric.. Prefer to fly with the I pad with stratus, like both as they are portable and can go from one aircraft to another.
Click to expand...


Is there anyone else that can also evaluate the two from a position of having extensively used both?
 
MBDiagMan said:
Is there anyone else that can also evaluate the two from a position of having extensively used both?
Click to expand...

I've used both extensively. The 496 is a great tool if you fly enough (including IMC) to justify paying $30 to $50 (or more) per month for weather.

Without weather it has nothing to offer that ForeFlight doesn't give you, far less actually.

The ONLY thing the 496 has that ForeFlight doesn't is a pseudo six pack that would be nice if you lost your panel in IMC. And I have a feeling that feature will e included in a future release of ForeFlight.

As an aside, I flew for quite a few years behind a 396 before upgrading to the 496 and unlike what someone recently stated in a "for sale" ad here, there's a lot more difference between the two than just taxi diagrams. For starters the 496's processor speed and memory capacity are both greatly improved over the 396.
 
I"ve used both.
I sold the 496, and now have an iPad mini. I am happy with my decision. If you have a blank canvas, I don't see a reason to pick the 496. If you already have the 496, it's a great tool, but I think the ipad has more to offer.
 
I have used the 496 for 5+ yrs, 2+ yrs panel mounted in my -10 on the wife side. The 430W is primary GPS and 496 backup, both feed my EFIS/Autopilot. The 496 had somewhat better weather, but too small on the far side for me. I like the 496 battery backup, the glide ratio function, panel page and being able to scroll the arrow across the map to see terrain elevations(wife uses that to determine our glide ability...2 nm/1000'). We especially like the NRST function(where it stays most of the time). In an emergency, my wife can give me heading, distance, ctaf, runway real quick. She always has a good idea if we can make it or not, figuring winds aloft and near the ground. It is a little fun mathematical game we play on those long xc. Sure the 430W has some of these functions, but I use it on other pages. I built and wired my panel. Removing it would leave a standard size hole. Yes, it is obsolete and updates not available, but it still gets plenty of use. I like my Foreflight/Stratus for easier viewing with older eyes except for bright sunny days. I like my GRT EFIS for most things....Synthetic vision, airspace, engine monitoring. Both will remain in my plane for many years.
 
Oh, and my above comments were just an in the air comparison.

On the ground, one can use the 496 for navigation in the auto mode. You'll pay big bucks to buy mapping database updates from Garmin only to find that, after you've installed their just released update, the three-year-old highway you drive on every day still isn't shown. I found many examples of this lack of accuracy all across the country when I was traveling all the time...if the GPS wasn't on my yoke it was on my truck's dash. For about 8 years, if I was moving, there was a Garmin in front of me (396...496) regardless of the mode of transportation.

Compare and contrast that to an ipad w/ google maps. No cost. Better, more up-to-date data base. We had the ipad "low slung" mounted on the dash during last september's five week 6000+ mile road trip. On maybe 5% of the roads we didn't have cell reception and thus lost our mapping capabilities. So we'd pull out the atlas. No biggie.

Plus, we had pandora, slacker, netflix (to keep momma entertained), gas buddy, hotel finder (bring fido . com), etc.

And sure, all this is also available on my droid phone but the size of the ipad makes it far more user friendly for 50+ year-old eyes and fat fingers.
 
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MBDiagMan said:
Is there anyone else that can also evaluate the two from a position of having extensively used both?
Click to expand...

The 496 is a good size for the cockpit, the iPad is too bulky.
The 496 won't have a heat stroke in a warm cockpit.
The 496 display is readable in the sun.
The 496 mounts nicely in the panel or on the yoke.
The software stability of the 496 is lightyears better than iOS/ForeFlight.
The GPS hardware is much better/stable.
The 496 is more rugged.
The 496 will continue to work for ever and ever and doesn't require yearly subscription.
The map on the 496 is much better on a small device than Sectionals.
Virtual 6 pack.

In other words,the 496 is a purpose built product and the iPad is a consumer grade device that has been tweaked to work.

I use my iPad for flight planning, an AFD and entertainment for a passenger. I'll be following the Garmin magenta line :)
 
bartmc said:
The 496 is a good size for the cockpit, the iPad is too bulky.
The 496 won't have a heat stroke in a warm cockpit.
The 496 display is readable in the sun.
The 496 mounts nicely in the panel or on the yoke.
The software stability of the 496 is lightyears better than iOS/ForeFlight.
The GPS hardware is much better/stable.
The 496 is more rugged.
The 496 will continue to work for ever and ever and doesn't require yearly subscription.
The map on the 496 is much better on a small device than Sectionals.
Virtual 6 pack.

In other words,the 496 is a purpose built product and the iPad is a consumer grade device that has been tweaked to work.

I use my iPad for flight planning, an AFD and entertainment for a passenger. I'll be following the Garmin magenta line :)
Click to expand...

Agree on all points.

(including your assessment of NextGen, the software, not the FAA program)
 
eman1200 said:
can I just ask ROUGHLY what a 430 costs to purchase and have installed? general ballpark please.
Click to expand...

I was quoted a month ago 15k for the gns-430, the GI-106A Nav Ind, and install. That was barring no problems with wiring which he wouldn't know until he got in there.

That was half he cost of the plane I was looking at, at that time.
 
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Here's my setup in the Sky Arrow:

11799571524_741c356402_c.jpg


The 496 front and center in the panel has Sirius WX (and radio) going to it, and has been, and remains, my primary nav source, using the faux HSI display you see above. The Dynon D10A could be wired somehow to display nav data, but I've never seen the need.

Anyway due to the expense, I only update the aviation and obstacle databases on the Garmin about annually.

So, I now rely on my new iPad Mini with WingXPro7 to obtain/confirm current frequencies and other airport/airspace data.

Skirting Atlanta's Class B by staying just clear of the innermost to-the-surface and below the 2,500' floor (maybe 1,200 agl as seen here) it was nice watching the sectional on the iPad to confirm no towers around and to verify I was, in fact, clear of Class B.

And, if the iPad took a dump, Hilton allows multiple devices with a subscription, so I could always fall back on my iPhone. Smallish, but it would do in a pinch.
 
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bartmc said:
The 496 is a good size for the cockpit, the iPad is too bulky. My iPad fits nicely on the yoke
The 496 won't have a heat stroke in a warm cockpit. never had that problem
The 496 display is readable in the sun. never had that problem
The 496 mounts nicely in the panel or on the yoke. so does an iPad...in my bird...on the yoke, not panel
The software stability of the 496 is lightyears better than iOS/ForeFlight. never had that problem
The GPS hardware is much better/stable. I'll give you that one
The 496 is more rugged.really? I had to send both my 396 and 496 back to garmin for repair (and my 496 needs to go back again, the USB port is wagging out...for the second time), never had to send an iPad in for repair
The 496 will continue to work for ever and ever and doesn't require yearly subscription. only if you don't mind out-of-date databases, otherwise it's far more expensive to keep upadated
The map on the 496 is much better on a small device than Sectionals. I couldn't disagree more. Oh, wait, you said a "small device". That's not being discussed.
Virtual 6 pack. I'll give you that one
Click to expand...

.........
 
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Sure sounds like a droid vs. iPhone debate. B)

BTW...I am not an apple fan boy. The only reason I own an apple product is because of ForeFlight.
 
For the 430. I got a 430W installed around $12K 3 years ago. There were used ones on the market, but that was before install. It looked like you just about bought a new one after install so I went new. Just got the ipad and FF from recommendation of brother in law. Amazing to say the least.
Merf
 
430, 496. iPad and iPhone. and compass and paper. and FF.
 
bartmc said:
The 496 is a good size for the cockpit, the iPad is too bulky.
The 496 won't have a heat stroke in a warm cockpit.
The 496 display is readable in the sun.
The 496 mounts nicely in the panel or on the yoke.
The software stability of the 496 is lightyears better than iOS/ForeFlight.
The GPS hardware is much better/stable.
The 496 is more rugged.
The 496 will continue to work for ever and ever and doesn't require yearly subscription.
The map on the 496 is much better on a small device than Sectionals.
Virtual 6 pack.

In other words,the 496 is a purpose built product and the iPad is a consumer grade device that has been tweaked to work.

I use my iPad for flight planning, an AFD and entertainment for a passenger. I'll be following the Garmin magenta line :)
Click to expand...


I agree!
 

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I use Garmin's app with my ipad connected via a Dual universal GPS receiver and also use a Garmin 496 every time I fly. :yes:
 
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I had a 496 in my Gobosh but the screen size was just a little too small for me. I got the 796 and had it installed to replace the 496. The 796 is outstanding in my opinion. I have used it for some long cross countries >1400 miles and it is just a really good tool. The multi-touch interface is also nicer than the clicks on the 496. One area it is far better in my opinion is the ability to just touch airspace and see the limits. The 496 cursor movement and airspace selection was just not as intuitive to me.

I fly with an iPad Mini on my knee as a backup and I think it is a nice backup and compliment to the 796. My plane has a stick vice a yoke, so mounting options for the iPad Mini are a little bit more limited but I find the kneeboard to work well. I used to fly with the full sized iPad but it is just too large in my opinion.

Carl
 
The 496 is also a marine unit. I have one BlueChart that covers 1500 marine charts from Olympia to Skagway.
 
The 496 won't have a heat stroke in a warm cockpit.
Click to expand...

I have heard of this before. I don't have an iPad, but I do have an iPhone and I have personally had it have a heat stroke. I think the iPad may be problematic during the summer, especially if left in the aircraft on the ground. I have a Garmin purpose-built and it has performed flawlessly. I have Foreflight on my iPhone, but I prefer the Garmin.
 
somorris said:
I have heard of this before. I don't have an iPad, but I do have an iPhone and I have personally had it have a heat stroke. I think the iPad may be problematic during the summer, especially if left in the aircraft on the ground. I have a Garmin purpose-built and it has performed flawlessly. I have Foreflight on my iPhone, but I prefer the Garmin.
Click to expand...

I had the ipad go out on me twice on hot days, both times in unforgiving airspace (NY SFRA, DC SFRA). Then there have been the occasions that random approaches and departure procedures have been missing from the database. Also, unless you hook it to a separate GPS, it occasionally drops GPS coverage. It is convenient as a way to maintain a set of current charts and approach plates that are usually georeferenced and most of the time available.
 
iPad with Stratus is my choice; however, I have had it shutoff in flight multiple times (high and low wing aircraft) due to overheat...so I don't rely on it completely. Paper is my backup.
 
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