GAAAHHHHAAA!!! Plane sellers - kill me now.

[docmirror]

One is about the responsibility of a seller to have command of all relevant information at the ready for a seller (and about his rambling verbosity).

ALL relevant information?

Please, I'm begging here. Just read the part that I wrote, not the part others have injected. I guess it's not getting through. Maybe using all caps will help.

WEIGHT?
BRAKES?
HAIL?

Has this become unreasonable for a plane advertised publicly? I didn't go hunt this guy down on the street, he posted the ad on BS.

 

[Jay Honeck]

I guess I'm guilty. When I sold my Piper Pathfinder, after owning it for almost 13 years, I had no idea what type of brakes were on it (even though I had personally serviced them over a dozen times), nor did I know it's empty weight off the top of my head.

Didn't know, didn't care. That's paperwork stuff, easily looked up when needed -- and when you have a plane with a 1400+ pound useful load, you don't worry much about empty weight.

Actually, come to think of it, I don't know the empty weight of my current airplane. Or any of its predecessors.

 

[danhagan]

Personally I won't fly with someone who isn't involved in their aircrafts up keep, just saying whatever fix it, or "plane don't fly, make plane fly" to a AP is just as bad as doing shade tree crap.

I don't do owner assisted annuals ... I run my own business and expect the mechanic to run theirs without a bunch of hand holding and backseat help with the fixes. A pilot should be able to squawk a problem with enough detail for the mechanic to get it fixed.

I traveled to look at an Arrow in Houston and declined purchase. There was so much owner work without A&P signature signoffs it was unbelievable.

To the OP: On my AC I can answer most all of your questions including W&B which is going to be within a few pounds of every other AC like mine. As for brakes, yes I'll remind you that my AC has TWO sets of master cylinders for redundancy and is unique to other AC, but that you should read more and learn about the AC by joining whatever online club supports the model you are interested in (Tiger, Piper, Cessna).

 

[docmirror]

To the OP: On my AC I can answer most all of your questions including W&B which is going to be within a few pounds of every other AC like mine. As for brakes, yes I'll remind you that my AC has TWO sets of master cylinders for redundancy and is unique to other AC, but that you should read more and learn about the AC by joining whatever online club supports the model you are interested in (Tiger, Piper, Cessna).

Good advice. There's sort of a type club, but the kind of info I'm looking for is specific to this - one - airframe, not the type in general. Empty weight is from 425 up to over 700 depending on all the engines, brakes, BRS, seats, storage pods, fuel, aux fuel, instruments, radios, etc.

 

[Katamarino]

Actually, come to think of it, I don't know the empty weight of my current airplane. Or any of its predecessors.

I bet if you were selling it you'd have the info to hand though, or at least know where to find it.

 

[JOhnH]

Yes, you expected him to have ALL relevant information.
Maybe you only asked three questions, but you expected him to have those answers on the tip of his tongue. What if you had asked three different questions? How was he to know which questions to be ready for?

I get your frustration, but you have to realize that not everyone has all that information at the ready. At least he didn't lie to you.

ALL relevant information?

Please, I'm begging here. Just read the part that I wrote, not the part others have injected. I guess it's not getting through. Maybe using all caps will help.

WEIGHT?
BRAKES?
HAIL?

Has this become unreasonable for a plane advertised publicly? I didn't go hunt this guy down on the street, he posted the ad on BS.

 

[docmirror]

Yes, you expected him to have ALL relevant information.

Wow, a mind reader. Crystal ball, or palmist?

Actually, with what was in the ad, these three questions would have triggered me to go fly my plane over there to look at it. Maybe make an offer, or do my own investigation. Either it was going to work, or it wasn't.

 

[JOhnH]

Wow, a mind reader. Crystal ball, or palmist?

Actually, with what was in the ad, these three questions would have triggered me to go fly my plane over there to look at it. Maybe make an offer, or do my own investigation. Either it was going to work, or it wasn't.

Not a mind reader or palmist at all.
You asked him three random questions and you expected him to have those three answers. If you had asked three different questions would you have expected him to have those answers as well? How was he to know which three questions you were going to ask?

And as several other posters said here, most people don't know what types of brakes they have.

You seem to be a little touchy today.

 

[RyanShort1]

As a pilot, you should know at least the basics of your aircraft systems and capabilities. You should know your weight and balance... you should have run it a couple of times while you owned it. You should be able to answer a few basic questions from a prospective seller if you are even halfway competent and desirous of selling. A full quarter of the people I talked to, or more with the last two aircraft I've had didn't have a clue on some of this stuff. I just figure if you don't even know your aircraft's weight and balance, you probably wouldn't know if you overloaded it and overstressed it, so I don't want the airplane anyway.

 

[txflyer]

Dang doc, you sure got taken to task for asking a few innocent buyer questions...

It looks like it boils down to the mechanically inclined or not. You either know and understand mechanics and you're interested in the mechanics of your plane or you don't.

I can guarantee you one thing, you are not going to find a cherry of an airplane unless the owner is a crazy mechanical idiot like me who wants everything to be perfect. Someone who knows just about everything under the sun about their plane. Things like 1770 empty, Cleveland brakes, 78 gallons usable, no hail and no major damage history in my memory banks, I don't have to look it up. Like you said, it ain't rocket science ... but to some it is I guess.

 

[docmirror]

I'm a big boy, I can take some beating. At least it was to some advantage, and I got to add to my ignore list. To be frank, I don't know my empty weight off the top of my head, but I know it's in a book, about 15 paces away, and I can refer to it at a moments notice. Also, my plane isn't listed on BS for sale - yet.

 

[danhagan]

I'm a big boy, I can take some beating. At least it was to some advantage, and I got to add to my ignore list. To be frank, I don't know my empty weight off the top of my head, but I know it's in a book, about 15 paces away, and I can refer to it at a moments notice. Also, my plane isn't listed on BS for sale - yet.

I fly my own plane primarily, but have access to several others. I downloaded an Iphone APP that allows me to enter empty weight, arm, moment etc., plus pax-pilot positions and cargo space. I can instantly run a BUNCH of "what-ifs" as far as loading. Also, the empty weight for each AC I fly is there permanently. Calculating W&B by hand is great as a student, but I'd rather use the extra time on weather, FP, DA etc.

My AC is dirt simple with a max load of 650 lbs with full fuel. Not more than 150 lbs in the cargo area and not more than 350 total behind the front seats.

 

[Unit74]

You must have missed the section in the commercial checkride where you are required to actually have good knowledge about the aircraft your flying, the systems within it, and how they work. Maybe you don't hold yourself to those standards, fair enough.

Your right in that I don't hold myself to a commercial standard because I'm not, nor do I intend to.

A pilot who has a good working knowledge and understanding of how his aircraft functions is a much better pilot than one who doesn't; troubleshooting in emergencies, for example.

I would somewhat agree with you on that. But most of the time knowing how the conjunction junction functions is of litttle use when laying in a heap of sheet metal, or about to be. If it stops working, you are going to find terra firms soon.

 

[bluerooster]

One would think that the question of hail damage would be easilly answered by the seller. That ain't nothing but simple observation during pre-flight.
As to the brakes whether they be Shinn, Goodyear, cleveland, or homemade by the neighbors cat, may be a different story.
For empty weight, I couldn't tell you, but I can tell you the the full fuel payload is 980 pounds, for my particular airplane. (don't know why, but I'd have to look up the empty weight, or the max gross, and do a little math)

 

[Unit74]

I'm a big boy, I can take some beating. At least it was to some advantage, and I got to add to my ignore list. To be frank, I don't know my empty weight off the top of my head, but I know it's in a book, about 15 paces away, and I can refer to it at a moments notice. Also, my plane isn't listed on BS for sale - yet.

Please add me to your ignor list as well. If you can't keep your arguments in the same thread and must go looking for other threads to make potshots at me, it's clearly in your best interest to ignore me all together. That way I don't have to worry about your seek and destroy posting on me.....

Not that it really matters to much though. Internet arguments are like running in the special Olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded.

 

[txflyer]

Internet arguments are like running in the special Olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded.

OMFG! I want to tag line this ....

 

[Cruiser]

Oh, I get it ...... this is a rhetorical question.

Your upset because you wanted to buy the plane more than he wanted to sell it. It can't be that he wasted your time because you have wasted more of your time in this thread than you did on the phone with the seller.

IF you want the plane that bad, call him back and walk him through getting the information you want. Be prepared to hear his whole history on how he got the plane, why he flies, his reminisces of flying adventures and what a wonderful plane it is (generally) of course he is never going to give you a direct answer. Oh, and by the way don't insult him with an offer, because he has priced the plane fairly and will not consider anything less than the asking price.

MOVE ON!

 

[Morgan3820]

Only a moron would complain about an opportunity standing right in front of them.

Only a moron buyer would call a seller and ask questions of a specific model not knowing what the answers are. Ever heard of the internet?

Only a moron buyer would not have a come back and try a reduced the price knowing the seller had no freaking idea what he is selling. Duh!

Get the hint? If not here is another clue.... DO YOUR ****ING HOMEWORK MORON AIRPLANE BUYER!

Been gone for a few days, I needed to vent. Sorry Cowman. Yahfreakinghoo.

Geiko! You sound like you are from New Jersey (not a good thing). Abuse like this is why more people do not use this forum. if you can't offer something constructive, don't offer anything.

 

[docmirror]

Oh, I get it ...... this is a rhetorical question.

Your upset because you wanted to buy the plane more than he wanted to sell it. It can't be that he wasted your time because you have wasted more of your time in this thread than you did on the phone with the seller.

IF you want the plane that bad, call him back and walk him through getting the information you want. Be prepared to hear his whole history on how he got the plane, why he flies, his reminisces of flying adventures and what a wonderful plane it is (generally) of course he is never going to give you a direct answer. Oh, and by the way don't insult him with an offer, because he has priced the plane fairly and will not consider anything less than the asking price.

MOVE ON!

Eh, yeah that's true enough. I have wasted time on this thread more than on the call maybe.

I've moved on now. We all come on to vent in our spare time. That was me, and it's good to know who's supportive and offers critical advice, and who is just trolling along, looking for an easy mark to notch their belt.

Another plane will be along shortly to take my fancy.

 

[mkosmo]

Eh, yeah that's true enough. I have wasted time on this thread more than on the call maybe.

I've moved on now. We all come on to vent in our spare time. That was me, and it's good to know who's supportive and offers critical advice, and who is just trolling along, looking for an easy mark to notch their belt.

Another plane will be along shortly to take my fancy.

I'd be here venting too... But I'd ask a few more questions of the seller before I got to brakes lol. Then again, I want to know everything there is to know about a machine I intend to operate.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[Geico266]

Eh, yeah that's true enough. I have wasted time on this thread more than on the call maybe.

I've moved on now. We all come on to vent in our spare time. That was me, and it's good to know who's supportive and offers critical advice, and who is just trolling along, looking for an easy mark to notch their belt.

Another plane will be along shortly to take my fancy.

Notice he said "take my fancy"? Nothing about actually buying a plane, just find one that he will waste the seller's time kicking the tires in a mental masturbation exercise dreaming about it.

 

[charheep]

I guess I missed something, but to me it seemed like the OP just wanted to vent about a purchase and not getting any solid answers. Would be the same thing if you called about a classic car and the owner didnt know what engine, or what mods have been done. I would rant also.
If the seller didnt know the answer, I think the OP would be ok with "you know, I dont have that information at my fingertips, but I will make myself a note of any questions I cant answer and call you back when I have it". Seems like a simple and easy solution.

But maybe I missed how asking what type of brakes the plane has, or any hail damage somehow got turned into you arent a real pilot if you dont brew your own oil and manufacture your own tires. Seriously, you write a check for someone elses brake fluid?? You isnt a pilot...

 

[JoseCuervo]

And real sellers say, "Thank you. I think she is pretty too. Copies are a dime a page and overnight costs about $25. The logs are about a hundred pages so a check for $50 will cover it and I'll refund the difference."


Jim

Just scan it and send it to me via email, then you can also send it to other potential buyers.

A scan application on your telephone is free to use, email doesn't cost you.

Just made you a better seller. Please send me a check for $50 to cover my services.

 

[weirdjim]

Just scan it and send it to me via email, then you can also send it to other potential buyers.

A scan application on your telephone is free to use, email doesn't cost you.

Just made you a better seller. Please send me a check for $50 to cover my services.

If the buyer has the attitude that I should spend money sending him stuff then I give the same attitude back. I do not suffer fools graciously. If he had ASKED for scanned copies that would not be a problem.

He also asked for overnight delivery. Same attitude. Same response.

Jim

 

[weirdjim]

Please add me to your ignor list as well. If you can't keep your arguments in the same thread and must go looking for other threads to make potshots at me, it's clearly in your best interest to ignore me all together. That way I don't have to worry about your seek and destroy posting on me.....

Not that it really matters to much though. Internet arguments are like running in the special Olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded.

Special Olympics are for the disabled and handicapped, not necessarily retarded. Retarded is misspelling "ignor(e)" and "you(')r(e).

Have a great day ...

Jim