GA friendly dog crates

cowman

cowman

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Cowman
So, this is Archer...
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He's still a puppy, in adult form he could get as big as 70lbs. I would like to be able to carry Archer in my Archer at some point but he really will need to be in a crate of some kind.

I am looking at some of the soft sided ones with the idea of getting it in, then actually setting it up sitting sideways in the cargo area, then loading him into the assembled crate through the cargo door. What worries me is if he decided to chew through the soft sides and escape. In the car I don't crate him but he eventually will settle down and curl up in the seat. Eventually... and he's starting to outgrow curling up in a seat.

I also wonder if I could use a traditional plastic crate by lowering the front/rear seats and loading it through the main door and back into the cargo area. I'm not sure there's be room for the door to swing open to load the dog through the cargo door... and trying to load the crate with 70# of dog in it that way doesn't sound like fun.

Anyway, I know some of you fly with your dogs... would like to see crates/pics... especially of big dogs in Cherokees.
 
Great lookin' dog!!!

Buddy has over 250 hours in the 182, never been in a crate. He started out tethered but after about 50 hours even that went by the wayside. Command = "road trip" and he's in the plane (or truck) in a split second.

Usually, if a dog does well in a car they'll do well in the plane also. At least that's been my experience flying PnP dogs. Some I crate, some I don't.

When I need to crate a dog, I typically use one of these:

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I use the size that's 33" long, it fits nicely on my backseat. All but the biggest dogs will fit in it, I've had 70# plus dogs in it for PnP flights. They're tight but they're fine.

I had a softsided one for a while but gave it away. Because I decided that if a dog needs to be in a crate then he needs to be in a real crate. If he's okay with a soft sides crate, then he's okay just being tethered in the backseat.

Most dogs love flying just like they love riding in a car/truck. If you get him to where he's comfortable (and mellow) riding in the car, then he should be fine in the plane.
 
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cowman said:
would like to see crates/pics... especially of big dogs in Cherokees.
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Hopefully Murphey will respond but she got this dog in the back of her Cherokee 180. As I recall the crate was in the back seat, not the baggage area, and the dog was loaded after the crate (normal hard sided crate) was already in the airplane. That involved getting him on the wing, though. I think...
 

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I like a soft sided cage too. If the dog chews through, well I always carry a gun.
 
2 Labs. They have flown since they were 8 weeks old. Never been in a crate or leashed. They just lay around on the back seat. I would think this is much easier than crating and takes up less room.

Archer is a great looking pup, BTW.
 
Here's a shot of Buddy (Boris) in Waupaca, WI during airventure weekend a couple of years ago. He's simply laying on the floor behind the front seats, I used to keep the backseat out of my 182:

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Don't bother with the "Mutt Muffs", they don't do a bit of good. There's a new kid on the block "4 Paws Aviation" and their "Mutt Muffs" seem to be of a far better design and may actually work to protect the dog's sensitive ears.

And here's buddy looking a bit more confident and less embarrassed at home:

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He was still fairly young here, a bit over a year old.
 
This pic should explain why I don't want him loose in the cabin.

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In case it's not clear he has climbed up the seat and is resting his body on the back of the seat and my shoulders. He likes car rides, he has also ridden on my ATV with me. It's the unwanted snuggling hazard that would be the problem. I couldn't put him in the back seat either... I didn't think he could get around or over the bench seat in my truck but it took him about 2 seconds.
 
If he's comfortable, not destructive, and your main concern is having him join you in the front, then tethering may be your best bet. :dunno: You know your dog best.
 
My own dogs are fine in both car and plane without being crated, but I certainly don't do that with the rescued dogs I fly for Pilots'n'Paws. I have one of these crates:

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...which have a split clamshell design, intended to be screwed together, although zip-ties work just fine, too. While it's easy enough to load fully assembled into my Grumman through the open canopy with the back seats folded flat, for a less convenient situation like a PA28, you could split it so the two halves fit through the door separately, load it, assemble it, and then bring the dog through the door into the crate.
 
Everskyward said:
Hopefully Murphey will respond but she got this dog in the back of her Cherokee 180. As I recall the crate was in the back seat, not the baggage area, and the dog was loaded after the crate (normal hard sided crate) was already in the airplane. That involved getting him on the wing, though. I think...
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For most dogs, I'm happy to harness them in the back seat. I have heavy straps that go over the back seat, attach the harness to the straps. The dog can sit up or lie down and can't get into the front. Crate or not depends on the personality of the dog. If the sending party says the dog is hyper, I'll probably use a crate.

If it's a large crate, it goes in the cherokee in parts and assembled on the backseat or in the baggage area. Can be a challenge getting the dog in the crate.

On the other hand, my dog hates the airplane, so he spends the day with friends with dogs when I'm flying.
 
Yeah he needs to be crated. He's good enough in the car without anything... he eventually lays down and sleeps but he can be quite a distraction before he does. Absolutely not safe for the airplane. I don't feel confident a tether will hold him, he's chewed through nylon leases and once broken a steel core tie-out cable.

Splitting the crate doesn't sound bad. I'll have to measure the cargo area out to make sure this will work.

My back seats will actually come out easily without tools but as I understand it, that requires me to fly in the utility category which cuts my useful load to the point Me + wife+dogs + full fuel won't be possible.
 
Petsmart has a wire crate line that is made by Midwest which makes great crates. Sometimes that are branded either Petsmart or Midwest.

http://www.petsmart.com/search?SearchTerm=midwest+dog+crate

They collapse down flat then can slip through the door then unfold and set up inside your plane. I would be concerned with a soft sided crate how much that would limit your dog's visibility. They are pretty solid usually.

Another thing you could consider which is what I am gonna do in my plane is a seat barrier between the front seats where he has free range of the back but can't make it up into the front. I use that in my truck when I have a passenger as my pup Pax loves to climb up and lick everyone!

http://www.petco.com/product/112440/Petco-Premium-Car-Seat-Barrier.aspx

Or get creative with and adjustable solid SUV barrier:

http://www.amazon.com/Solvit-Deluxe...8&qid=1411523248&sr=8-12&keywords=suv+barrier

There are also car seat belt harnesses you could attach to your back seat:

http://www.amazon.com/HDP-Harness-Safety-Travel-System/dp/B000XKSUD6

I will second avoid Mutt Muffs brand. Just got a pair and am sending them back!
 
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cowman said:
My back seats will actually come out easily without tools but as I understand it, that requires me to fly in the utility category ....
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You might want to dig into the POH/AFM to find out if that's really true, because it doesn't sound right to me.
 
I never heard of a plane being limited to operation in the utility category with the back seat out...that doesn't make sense. But, then again, I haven't heard of a lot of things.

A more likely scenario is that, in order to fly "utility category maneuvers," the back seat must come out but that doesn't mean you can't also fly it in the normal category with it out.

I would recommend building or buying a good cargo net if you regularly fly with them out. I built one out of 1" webbing that attaches to the same mounting points that the seat attaches to, works great.
 
Usually, the provision on rear seats and utility category is that you can't have occupants in them when operating in the utility category. Utility category makes your plane a defacto two place no matter how many seats it has.
 
Shawn said:
Petsmart has a wire crate line that is made by Midwest which makes great crates. Sometimes that are branded either Petsmart or Midwest.

http://www.petsmart.com/search?SearchTerm=midwest+dog+crate

They collapse down flat then can slip through the door then unfold and set up inside your plane. I would be concerned with a soft sided crate how much that would limit your dog's visibility. They are pretty solid usually.
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I'm having a hard time visualizing how a wire crate could be successfully set up inside an airplane. I would think you'd at least want the 20" x 30" size for this dog and, when unfolding a wire crate, you essentially need twice the width dimension before you can "open it into a square." The initial "unfold" is to the side and that fold is the same dimension as the width so you need the width x 2 to unfold it. i.e. 40" in this case.

It's hard to adequately describe in writing (for me anyway) so, of course, there's a youtube video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6WWDA_9XIk

If you have an extremely tall baggage compartment then it might work. Mine has a "hat shelf" above it though that would keep me from doing anything like this.

BTW...we have three wire crates and love them. They're quite flexible and convenient. I haven't used them in the airplane though.
 
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We have a large wire crate at home he sleeps in. It won't even go through the doors of my house without being broken down and it's HEAVY. Maybe if we took all the seats out and he flys the plane....
 
cowman said:
This is the discussion that brought me to that conclusion.
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71818

If I'm wrong I'd very much love to just pull those seats and fly normal category.
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OK, now I understand it. Silvaire said:
Silvaire said:
Yes you can legally remove the rear seats. Doing so puts the airplane in the Utility category. It's in the TCDS.
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I believe he was referring to this line in the PA28 TCDS:

No. of Seats Normal Category: 4 (2 at +80.5 2 at +118.1)
Utility Category: 2 (2 at +80.5)
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What that really means is that only the front two seats may be occupied when operating in the Utility Category, that is, no back seat passengers when performing maneuvers limited to Utility Category even if you can manage to put someone back there without exceeding the Utility gross weight or aft cg limits. You can still remove the back seats and operate in the Normal Category with baggage or dog crates or whatever back there. Use the data on rear seat weight and arm from your AFM to adjust your empty weight/cg data when performing your W&B computations with the back seats out.
 
Thanks, Ron, I assumed that was the case when I made my earlier response but certainly didn't know for sure. Attached is an article regarding back seat removal that I've been following the advice of thus:

FWIW, I have two W&Bs. One with the backseat in and one with it out. Both dated the same date and both signed off by an A&P. I also log removal and/or replacement of the rear seat.

I'm sure you'll find it surprising that the article starts with:

...so CPA decided to check with several FAA personnel and got several different answers.
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But the final answer came from Mr. Bill O’Brien, National Resource Specialist
for General and Sport Aviation(not that there is such a thing as a "final answer" from the FAA). And it was:

At the next annual inspection, or sooner, have a mechanic work two weight and balances sheets. One sheet with the seat in, one sheet with the seat out. Also have him create two equipment lists, one with the seat in and one with the seat out. I recommend that you identify each weight & balance and equipment list with an identifying letter or number so that particular W&B and equipment list can be properly referenced in the log book entry. I also recommend that the mechanic sign both W&B and equipment lists with his signature and certificate number and date.

When the pilot removes the seat, he makes a log book entry in accordance with section 43.9, This tells the world what seat is removed and the new weight and balance/equipment list is in effect, (reference the identifying letter or number of the new weight/balance/ equipment list.) The new weight & balance and equipment list should be put in the flight manual or someplace handy so the pilot can get to it. The old weight & balance/equipment list should be taken out of the aircraft and stored someplace until it is needed.
In this way no chance of error exists when the pilot computes his weight and balance. When the seat goes back in, the pilot makes another log book entry in accordance with section 43.9; the log book should now state that the original weight and balance/equipment list is now in effect. (reference the identifying letter or number of the new weight/balance/equipment list..) In this way the pilot can remove and install the same seat twenty times a week, without an A&P and the weight and balance and equipment list is always
current.”
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So this is what I do.
 

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how about a cat carrier?

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I need to get our dog 'Mya' up for her 1st flight. She just loves car rides, I think she would do O.K. after some intro.

My plan was to maybe tether her to the back or have a backseat assistant. Sorry, my picture looks a bit funky.
 

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