G1000 Inop Equipment

ajstoner21

ajstoner21

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For an airplane to be legal to fly, all installed equipment must be operational, or it has to be deactivated/removed and placarded.


With that said, in a Cessna 172SP with G1000, if you have an Alert for an Inop Carbon Monoxide detector, how do you deactivate/placard a carbon monoxide detector?

Maybe I don't fully understand that reg....
 
ajstoner21 said:
For an airplane to be legal to fly, all installed equipment must be operational, or it has to be deactivated/removed and placarded.


With that said, in a Cessna 172SP with G1000, if you have an Alert for an Inop Carbon Monoxide detector, how do you deactivate/placard a carbon monoxide detector?

Maybe I don't fully understand that reg....
Click to expand...

Would that alert be considered a placard?
 
JeffDG said:
Would that alert be considered a placard?
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I don't think so, and in any event, "inoperative" isn't the same as "deactivated." It's an interesting question the FAA's answer to which I'd like to hear, but my first thought is that you can't legally fly it until the CO detector is fixed, or it's deactivated (i.e., power removed and/or disconnected from the system), or it's removed from the plane.
 
Don't have an airplane handy - is there a separate CB for the CO sensor? If there is, you can pull and tag the CB.
 
The restart Cessna's have a table in the POH that lists equipment and the conditions it can be flown if something is inop. If it is still legal to fly, I have seen the mechanics just use a label maker/printer and place the notice on the panel. I see a lot of hot props labeled inoperative, probably because the owners didn't want to replace the brushes.
 
Alexb2000 said:
The restart Cessna's have a table in the POH that lists equipment and the conditions it can be flown if something is inop. If it is still legal to fly, I have seen the mechanics just use a label maker/printer and place the notice on the panel.
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91.205(d) requires a bit more than that -- the item must be either removed or deactivated (which may require a log entry). Simply labeling it is not legally sufficient, even though that's what a lot of folks do.
 
There may be a way for maintenance to deactivate it by starting the unit up in maintenance mode. I don't have the maintenance manual but I have seen it before and it's one long read.
 
I'm glad I found an interesting question to post!

I honestly don't know who to ask besides calling a FSDO inspector, because, I know of lot of people who apparently don't know that regulation very well.
 
I've had VOR indicators go bad, but in VFR flight, it's not required. So by definition, it was deactivated and I put a sticky over it with the note INOP. Now, is the CO detector required equipment or merely a convenience that just happens to be built into the G1000? A CO detector isn't on the required equipment list for VFR or IFR flight.

But then, I've only seen a G1000, never flown with one, so what do I know?
 
murphey said:
I've had VOR indicators go bad, but in VFR flight, it's not required. So by definition, it was deactivated
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Simply "going bad" is not "by definition" the same as "deactivated." For all you know, there's a short in it that is just waiting to start an electrical fire. Unless you pulled the power to it (say, by pulling the plugs off the back and logging that "maintenance" in the aircraft records with an A&P's signature), it's not "deactivated," and even then, unless you isolated the problem to the CDI head itself and not the VOR receiver or the wiring, you haven't complied with the reg unless you deactivated the whole VOR system by pulling the c/b.

Now, is the CO detector required equipment or merely a convenience that just happens to be built into the G1000? A CO detector isn't on the required equipment list for VFR or IFR flight.
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While that's a consideration in whether or not you can fly the plane with the CO detector either removed or deactivated and placarded, the fact that it is not required for the flight operation you are contemplating doesn't get you out of having to either remove it or deactivate and placard it before the next flight.
 
You can fly the plane with the CAS alert saying it is inop, there is a list of required equipment on the plane and that is not required. Some G1000's do not have a CO detector.
That is the great thing about a CAS, you do not need to placard it.
 
Also, Regardless of what the list of required equipment says, it still needs deactivated and placarded, or removed per the regs.

That required equipment list is simply what the airplane manufacturer says is required to keep its airworthiness certificate.
 
Ron Levy said:
91.205(d) requires a bit more than that -- the item must be either removed or deactivated (which may require a log entry). Simply labeling it is not legally sufficient, even though that's what a lot of folks do.
Click to expand...

I think you mean 91.213(d).

I found Advisory Circular 91-67, which addresses the subject in more detail than the regulations:

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...13C094A06437C5FA862569D900744D86?OpenDocument

"Deactivation means to make a piece of equipment or an instrument unusable to the pilot/crew by preventing its operation."

But scan the AC to get the full context.
 
ajstoner21 said:
Also, Regardless of what the list of required equipment says, it still needs deactivated and placarded, or removed per the regs.

That required equipment list is simply what the airplane manufacturer says is required to keep its airworthiness certificate.
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What regs? A AC is not "regs"
 
Gsim Aviation said:
What regs? A AC is not "regs"
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AC's aren't regs, but in many cases they provide explanations of the regs. If the AC says that's what the reg means, it's awfully long odds against the Chief Counsel disagreeing.

And yes, Jim, I did mean 91.213(d).
 
Gsim Aviation said:
You can fly the plane with the CAS alert saying it is inop, there is a list of required equipment on the plane and that is not required. Some G1000's do not have a CO detector.
That is the great thing about a CAS, you do not need to placard it.
Click to expand...
While I have no trouble believing the CAS alert fills the placard square, since the reg requires deactivation as well as placarding if the item isn't removed, can you share with us the FAA-approved guidance which says that the CAS alert is sufficient to legally fly with it neither removed nor deactivated?
 
Ron Levy said:
AC's aren't regs, but in many cases they provide explanations of the regs. If the AC says that's what the reg means, it's awfully long odds against the Chief Counsel disagreeing.

And yes, Jim, I did mean 91.213(d).
Click to expand...
The CAS is a warning to the pilot, so it does fulfills the requirement. The same goes for a X over the vacuum gauge, it will give you a CAS warning also, legal to fly VFR.
In my POH it says I can fly VFR with no VAC pump working. other AC may be different.
 
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Gsim Aviation said:
The CAS is a warning to the pilot, so it does fulfills the requirement.
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The requirement for the placard? I'll buy that. The requirement for deactivation? I'd need to see that in writing with FAA approval.

The same goes for a X over the vacuum gauge, it will give you a CAS warning also, legal to fly VFR.
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Ditto -- deactivation is the remaining issue, not placarding.

In my POH it says I can fly VFR with no VAC pump working. other AC may be different.
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...but if it isn't working, per 91.213(d), it still must be deactivated and placarded to fly VFR, unless you have something in writing waiving that requirement, and I doubt your POH has that.
 
The regulation about malfunctioning equipment seems to be one of the most misunderstood regulations out there.

Any ideas how to get this regulation a little more well known?
 
ajstoner21 said:
The regulation about malfunctioning equipment seems to be one of the most misunderstood regulations out there.

Any ideas how to get this regulation a little more well known?
Click to expand...
I wish I knew. It's part of the PP and CP PTS, so instructors should be teaching it, and I cover it as part of each flight review ("A review of the current general operating and flight rules of part 91 of this chapter"), but when giving flight reviews training for various certificates and ratings, I've found pilot understanding of the whole 91.213(d) process to be generally weak. I guess maybe it's up to us instructors to hit this harder on flight reviews.
 
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