G1000 and holds

olasek

olasek

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olasek
Anyone proficient in using available hold "options" in G1000?.

To help with typical enroute holds G1000 offers hold at waypoint and hold at current position. I noticed that when selecting hold at waypoint it always (or majority of time) picks a waypoint that is already miles (tens??) behind me in my flight plan, why doesn't it pick a waypoint which is just ahead of me? By the way, I see no way to select the waypoint I want to hold at (of course I can hold at current position), this waypoint is always selected for me relative to my current position and my flight plan. I must say I am playing with Garmin G1000 PC trainer.
 
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olasek said:
Anyone proficient in using available hold "options" in G1000?.

To help with typical enroute holds G1000 offers hold at waypoint and hold at current position. I noticed that when selecting hold at waypoint it always (or majority of time) picks a waypoint that is already miles (tens??) behind me in my flight plan, why doesn't it pick a waypoint which is just ahead of me? By the way, I see no way to select the waypoint I want to hold at (of course I can hold at current position), this waypoint is always selected for me relative to my current position and my flight plan. I must say I am playing with Garmin G1000 PC trainer.
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The G1000 supports custom holds now? That must be relatively new!
 
It's a brand new feature last I checked. Never used it as I fly an early G1000 Cessna.
 
Yes, it must be the latest feature. I installed the latest PC trainer for Cirrus Perspective, it is 14.01. It shows the date of the software version as Dec. 2013 plus the database is also from the same period.

It has unpublished holds.

By the way I figured out answer to my question.

When you open Direct-To page it gives you the option to hold at this fix. You can select the course of hold, time or distance or whether inbound/outbound. I wasn't sure what 'outbound' hold is but I tried it and now I know. So really this Direct-To page is the easiest way to set up hold regardless whether the fix is in your flight plan or not. You can also set Expect Further Clearance time.

It also does have two hold options I mentioned in my first post, they are accessible from MENU provided you are on the flight plan page.

How often software version is updated on a real aircraft?
 
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Yes, that's it.

The fellow doesn't show however that hold is also available through Direct-To page.
But since he showed how it works as "hold at waypoint" from the flight plan I returned to this method and I finally figured out how to select the waypoint you want to hold at - simple - your blinking cursor in your flight plan must be positioned just before that waypoint of your choice. 'Outbound' simply means you will be holding on the 'other' side of the fix, for example when you approach the fix on the 040 course and your default holding course is then 040 (say right turns) when you select 'outbound' it is equivalent to selecting the holding course as 40+180 = 220.

My previous comment about software version is incorrect - DEC-13 refers to the nav database, the software version is 0764.20 (Cirrus SR22 Turbo).
 
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olasek said:
Yes, that's it.

The fellow doesn't show however that hold is also available through Direct-To page.
But since he showed how it works as "hold at waypoint" from the flight plan I returned to this method and I finally figured out how to select the waypoint you want to hold at - simple - your blinking cursor in your flight plan must be positioned just before that waypoint of your choice. 'Outbound' simply means you will be holding on the 'other' side of the fix, for example when you approach the fix on the 040 course and your default holding course is then 040 (say right turns) when you select 'outbound' it is equivalent to selecting the holding course as 40+180 = 220.

My previous comment about software version is incorrect - DEC-13 refers to the nav database, the software version is 0764.20 (Cirrus SR22 Turbo).
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Thanks for the info, I've always thought this was a ridiculous thing to be missing from the G1000.

So can you select turn direction, leg length or time, crossing altitude, etc? Basicially is it as capable as the new Avidyne?
 
It's a nifty feature but seriously have you ever had to do a user defined hold as opposed to a published one or one associated with an approach?
 
sixpacker said:
It's a nifty feature but seriously have you ever had to do a user defined hold as opposed to a published one or one associated with an approach?
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I've been given a few, I usually solve it without flying the hold by pulling the power way back and or figuring out where the bottleneck is and changing my plans as appropriate. Part of this is because it is such a PITA to fly using the G1000. If I had an airliners FMS I could read the paper while we circled around.
 
sixpacker said:
It's a nifty feature but seriously have you ever had to do a user defined hold as opposed to a published one or one associated with an approach?
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Yes, and not just for a practical test or training. How many times? :dunno: but enough that I've lost count.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I've been given a few, I usually solve it without flying the hold by pulling the power way back and or figuring out where the bottleneck is and changing my plans as appropriate. Part of this is because it is such a PITA to fly using the G1000.
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It's a piece of cake with a G1000 if you know how to use the OBS mode.
 
Alexb2000 said:
So can you select turn direction, leg length or time, crossing altitude, etc?
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Yes, you can select direction, course, time, length of the hold.
Not sure what you mean by crossing altitude, VNV is a separate feature that existed in G1000 before the holds were implemented.
Yeah.. you can read a paper and sip cappuccino while it is holding for you ...:yes:

Part of this is because it is such a PITA to fly using the G1000.
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I find it quite simple and intuitive. After initial effort to master basics things fall into places very quickly.
 
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Ron Levy said:
It's a piece of cake with a G1000 if you know how to use the OBS mode.
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I know how to use the OBS mode, it's still a lot of constant knob twisting, setting the clock or watching DME, etc. Boring busy work.

Easier to slow down, ask for a re-route, cancel, whatever.
 
olasek said:
Yes, you can select direction, course, time, length of the hold.
Not sure what you mean by crossing altitude, VNV is a separate feature that existed in G1000 before the holds were implemented.
Yeah.. you can read a paper and sip cappuccino while it is holding for you ...:yes:


I find it quite simple and intuitive. After initial effort to master basics things fall into places very quickly.
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If they are stacking aircraft you might get a cross 5 miles east of x (hold) at 5,000 type of instruction. Yes you could do it in VNAV, but that would require going to the fltplan page vs. doing in when you program the hold (that's my question)?

I guess I'm just in a different place than you and Ron, I don't think it's hard, it just sucks. Sitting there watching the clock or DME turning at the exact point, repeat , repeat, repeat. I own my bird now, but when I was renting turning circles for 20 minutes was a suck factor on the wallet.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I guess I'm just in a different place than you and Ron, I don't think it's hard, it just sucks. Sitting there watching the clock or DME turning at the exact point, repeat , repeat, repeat. I own my bird now, but when I was renting turning circles for 20 minutes was a suck factor on the wallet.
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Not sure I follow, I get it that your G1000 'sucked' with no holds, it still 'sucks' now with holds :confused: and I don't follow what 'wallet' and 'suck factor' had to do with G1000. My comment was about G1000 'in general', irrespective of holds, I have no beef with this software (btw, my background is software). If someone prefers Avidyne (which I don't know) - good for them, it's a bit like arguing whether vanilla or chocolate ice creams are better.
 
olasek said:
Not sure I follow, I get it that your G1000 'sucked' with no holds, it still 'sucks' now with holds :confused: and I don't follow what 'wallet' and 'suck factor' had to do with G1000. My comment was about G1000 'in general', irrespective of holds, I have no beef with this software (btw, my background is software).
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We don't have unpublished holds in the actual aircraft yet. So you are playing with a feature that I don't have, that's why I'm asking questions. Maybe I didn't make this clear enough.

If you're paying $300 an hour to rent an aircraft and you turn in a hold for 20 minutes, then you have paid $100 plus tax to turn circles. Part of the game, but I like to get somewhere when I fly.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I know how to use the OBS mode, it's still a lot of constant knob twisting,
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What "constant knob twisting"? You twist the OBS knob once when you turn outbound from the fix on the entry, and that's it.
setting the clock or watching DME, etc. Boring busy work.
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You mean like a regular old-fashioned hold at a VOR? I'd hardly call that a "PITA". OTOH, you could be doing a partial panel single VOR hold at an intersection. Now, that's what I'd call a PITA.
 
Ron Levy said:
What "constant knob twisting"? You twist the OBS knob once when you turn outbound from the fix on the entry, and that's it.
You mean like a regular old-fashioned hold at a VOR? I'd hardly call that a "PITA". OTOH, you could be doing a partial panel single VOR hold at an intersection. Now, that's what I'd call a PITA.
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OBS works great for the entry and to prevent sequencing. However, once established you still have to fly the outbound in heading mode, you still have to adjust the first couple of outbound laps for wind, you still have to flip flop the mode and watch for distance or time manually every lap. Is is a hard task relative to flying no, just busy work going nowhere like I said.

Partial panel VOR? No thank you. I'm sure there are guys that still fly the single nav head approaches, spinning and tuning like a madman, 430s are just to cheap to do all that by choice.
 
Alexb2000 said:
OBS works great for the entry and to prevent sequencing. However, once established you still have to fly the outbound in heading mode, you still have to adjust the first couple of outbound laps for wind, you still have to flip flop the mode and watch for distance or time manually every lap. Is is a hard task relative to flying no, just busy work going nowhere like I said.
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You're talking about autopilot issues, then, not G1000 issues.

Partial panel VOR? No thank you. I'm sure there are guys that still fly the single nav head approaches, spinning and tuning like a madman, 430s are just to cheap to do all that by choice.
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Good thing you weren't flying back in the 20th century -- you'd've hated it.
:rofl:
 
Ron Levy said:
You're talking about autopilot issues, then, not G1000 issues.

Good thing you weren't flying back in the 20th century -- you'd've hated it.
:rofl:
Click to expand...

Do you have a better way to do it with a G1000?

Once they've seen Paris….
 
Ron Levy said:
You're talking about autopilot issues, then, not G1000 issues.

Good thing you weren't flying back in the 20th century -- you'd've hated it.
:rofl:
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Ron Levy said:
No, but even with the upgraded G1000 or a published hold, without a GPSS autopilot, you'll still be doing all that autopilot knob twisting.

...you still may end up back down on the farm.
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Has there ever been a G1000 install without GPSS? Only autopilots I can think of that are sold with the G1000 are the GFC700, 55X, and KAP140 all with GPSS. Am I missing something?
 
Alexb2000 said:
Yes you could do it in VNAV, but that would require going to the fltplan page vs. doing in when you program the hold (that's my question)?
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No, I don't see any way to manipulate alt data while setting up a hold.
 
thanks, I actually prefer G1000 flight plan page where I can easily do all sorts of VNV stuff, pick descent angles/fpm, crossing alts, etc., I find vertical navigation very easy this way. Again, it is purely a matter of what one prefers.
 
It would be cool if they'd put this feature into the GTN series navigators so my GPSS AP can fly my holds (if I ever receive one outside of training).

I checked back to SB 1466 Rev A from 11/25/14 and I don't see that feature listed -- and I don't think it was in previous ones either. Lots of other cool stuff, but not custom holds AFAIK.
 
Alexb2000 said:
Basicially is it as capable as the new Avidyne?
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By the way how is this new Avidyne Entegra Release 9 doing in the marketplace?
From what I can see they are limited to retrofit market only or perhaps I missed something.
I can certainly appreciate many things they do for an end user - their trainer available for Ipad (!!) and PC and both free!
 
On the G1000 video above, the hold planning screen had the ability to enter the EFC time. I wonder what the G1000 does with that? I wouldn't want it automatically leaving the hold at that time. Does it pop up an alert / reminder so you can query the controller??
 
olasek said:
By the way how is this new Avidyne Entegra Release 9 doing in the marketplace?
From what I can see they are limited to retrofit market only or perhaps I missed something.
I can certainly appreciate many things they do for an end user - their trainer available for Ipad (!!) and PC and both free!
Click to expand...

I have no idea. Cirrus was the biggest customer and they went to the G1000, so I don't know. Looks like they did a good job with it, although I've never flown one.
 
You are most welcome!
I am ready to check other obscure features of G1000 provided it doesn't have to do with engine monitoring - this part is non-functional on the PC trainer (it is just a static image).

By the way - I noticed this latest G1000 software revision is capable of flying LP approaches, I think I even saw an LP+V approach.
 
olasek said:
By the way - I noticed this latest G1000 software revision is capable of flying LP approaches, I think I even saw an LP+V approach.
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Indeed you did. If the LP approach has a VDA, it will be LP+V.
 
aterpster said:
Indeed you did. If the LP approach has a VDA, it will be LP+V.
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OK, but since we are on the subject, what's the exact definition of the VDA angle? I could never find it spelled out what it was, I could only guess it was the angle of a slope that connects FAF with runway threshold+say 55 ft.
 
olasek said:
OK, but since we are on the subject, what's the exact definition of the VDA angle? I could never find it spelled out what it was, I could only guess it was the angle of a slope that connects FAF with runway threshold+say 55 ft.
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http://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1501/09852r18.pdf

The arrow-like symbol in the profile view with 3.00 degrees and the TCH. It that is not there you will have LP, not LP+V.

Obviously, an LP approach already has obstacle penetrations in the visual segment and glide-slope qualification area (or an inadequate survey). If it didn't it would be an LPV approach. Flight inspections makes the call on whether an LP or LNAV IAP will have a VDA. They assess the extent of the close-in obstacles. If they decide that trees, etc, close in are of sufficient hazard they nix the VDA so the pilot can fly into the trees without federal help.
 
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