furnace quit, very cold in the house

woodstock

woodstock

Final Approach
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dammit! I was wondering why it was so cold last night, usually my room is a saune despite keeping the heat on 68.

I heard a banging noise during the night. no idea what it was but it didn't sound like it was coming from the basement, more like upstairs somewhere. not sure of the time. sometime later, couldn't even tell you when, I started feeling colder - at least the bits not under covers. I got up to check and damned if my house isn't at 60 degrees right now. the thermostat is working, fan is working... went to the furnace and first it was HUMMING and now it's quiet. hot water is working fine so it isn't the gas (I don't think) but I didn't turn on the stove to check that - I'm thinking it's ok though.

what the hell? I do have a "home warranty" (the kind you pay for annually, house is 3 or so yrs old) but I'm cold now and they don't open up til 9 AM I think...
 
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woodstock said:
dammit! I was wondering why it was so cold last night, usually my room is a saune despite keeping the heat on 68.

I heard a banging noise during the night. no idea what it was but it didn't sound like it was coming from the basement, more like upstairs somewhere. not sure of the time. sometime later, couldn't even tell you when, I started feeling colder - at least the bits not under covers. I got up to check and damned if my house isn't at 60 degrees right now. the thermostat is working, fan is working... went to the furnace and first it was HUMMING and now it's quiet. hot water is working fine so it isn't the gas (I don't think) but I didn't turn on the stove to check that - I'm thinking it's ok though.

what the hell? I do have a "home warranty" (the kind you pay for annually, house is 3 or so yrs old) but I'm cold now and they don't open up til 9 AM I think...
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Bundle up. Have you tried simply relighting it? If it's windy, you may have heard some type of flue damper getting blown back and it might have knocked the flame out. Or, if you've been naughty this year it might be Santa stuffing elves down your chimney. I heard they went on strike and the old man got ****ed....
 
the gas stove and water still appear to be working fine. I flipped the switch on the furnace, it turned off, then back on again. all I am getting is a humming noise. I turned it off again since that hum doesn't sound very healthy.

I gotta get this fixed today, it's in the 20s and while I can go to work the cats are here. what a pain in the ass.
 
woodstock said:
the gas stove and water still appear to be working fine. I flipped the switch on the furnace, it turned off, then back on again. all I am getting is a humming noise. I turned it off again since that hum doesn't sound very healthy.

I gotta get this fixed today, it's in the 20s and while I can go to work the cats are here. what a pain in the ass.
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Unless you shave your cats, they will be just fine, although you do want to get it fixed ASAP. If you have one, leave a down comforter in cat territory for them to bed down in, or clear off the top of your fridge, it's always warm up there. They'll find a place.
 
It's the furnace's way of telling you that it's a good idea to have a service contract on your heating (and ac if you have one) system(s). They'll come out in the Fall, clean everything, check the combustion and stuff, and many of the companies give 24 7 service. Worth every penny IMHO.
 
sounds like a good idea. it's 59 degrees in here now, so I guess given it's 21 out my insulation must be pretty good. I don't know when this started, it seemed cooler than usual last evening but not sure what time the "bang" happened.
 
If your pilot light is out, you'll need to get it relit or the furnace will not heat. By design, there's no real gas danger because the furnace will cut off the gas to the pilot light unless a heat sensor registers flame.

If you have an older house and heck possibly even newer furnaces, you'll have to learn how to light the furnace. It isn't hard, you just have to understand the process, kind of like starting the airplaine engine.

When you open the panel of your furnace, you should see a big white control valve (white knob) around 2.5 inches in diameter, connected to a control box. From there you should see several pipes. You want the small metal tube about a quarter inch in diameter extending from it, into the main body of the chamber. Where it ends is where the pilot light is supposed to burn. It will be set up so that when it burns, it heats a sensor, which also extends back to the control box.

Lighting the furnace requires some preparation. You want a good constant source of flame like a candle lighter. Matches can work but will be fussier.

You start off by turning the white control knob to OFF for 5 minutes. This probably isn't necessary but its a safety check to ensure that any residual gas dissapates. Like I said before, there probably wont BE any residual gas, but its good to be safe.

The white knob both rotates and pushes down. It has three rotation settings: Off, Pilot, and On. In the pilot setting, you can push down on it, and doing so will allow gas to come down the pilot tube. Because the control box will not allow the pilot light gas to run without it sensing heat (thus proving that the gas is burning, not accumulating in your basement), you have to push down on the knob to force gas to flow to the pilot light until the heat sensor warms up. If you release the knob too soon, the pilot light will just go out again.

So here's how you light the pilot light. I usually do this with the thermostat turned on but thats up to you.
  1. Remove panel on furnace (it will be the EASY one to remove).
  2. Turn furnace control valve to off. Wait 5 minutes.
  3. Turn furnace control valve to PILOT.
  4. Light candle lighter or matches
  5. Place flame near end of pilot tube
  6. Push down on the control valve. The pilot light should ignite. Now ove your matches or candle lighter, ensuring that the flame stays lit.
  7. KEEP THE VALVE PUSHED DOWN for at least 30 seconds.
  8. Release pressure on the valve. Check pilot light. If it stops burning, repeat steps 4 through 6.
  9. Once the pilot light stays lit, turn the valve to ON. If your thermostat is turned on, prepare to hear the sound of gas flowing, followed by a WHOOMPH sound as the main burner ignites.
  10. Close or replace the main panel.
If you turned your thermostat off, go turn it on now and come back and check to see the furnace is lit.

If this doesn't work, turn the main control valve to OFF, turn off your thermostat, buy a portable heater and call your repair man.
 
woodstock said:
actually the house is 3 years old. this shouldn't even be happening.
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Furnaces go out sometimes. It may be nothing more worrysome than that. I'm not saying don't have the furnace checked, I'm just saying if you live in a house with a gas furnace, you need to know how to light it.
 
If her house is only 3 years old, the furnace is undoubtedly only 3 years old.

Modern furnaces don't generally use pilot lights - they use a hot surface ignitor (a ceramic that glows in the path of the gas to ignite it).

Those things tend to break after a few years. They cost about $35-40 and take about 10 minutes for a reasonably competent handyman to install (note - you're working around a gas furnace so don't do this unless you feel competent). Expect to pay more like $100-200 for replacement on an emergency basis.
 
Home warranty should cover this, but my experience with their response time is terrible.

I had one warranty company try and tell me that since I had two furnaces in the house (one for each floor) that it wasn't critical and they would be out in 4 to 5 days. Bzzzzt, wrong answer. They also tried to deny payment because I couldn't prove that the prior owner of the house had done the every-6-month routine season inspections. Let's see, the purpose of the warranty is.....? Then they wondered why I didn't renew even after they threw out all kinds of doom-and-gloom scenarios.

I can get 4-6 hour response out of local HVAC maintenance companies. The best I ever got out of the warranty folks was 12 hours.

This is probably an easy fix. As others pointed out, most modern furnaces have ignitors, not pilot lights. There is an induction blower that creates a draft for the burners to make sure the gas burns well and the exhaust fumes go out the flue. The cycle is that the induction blower starts first (that may be the hum you hear), it runs for a minute or so, the igniter starts and the gas comes on, then about 30 seconds later your fan blower starts. There are a couple of temperature sensors in the system - one is used to start the fan blower when the air gets warm enough, the other is an overtemperature sensor that shuts the gas down if the furnace gets too hot. If the overtemp sensor fails, the furnace may not start.

I'd put my money on either the ignitor or the overtemp sensor. Both are relatively inexpensive and relatively quick to fix.

Good luck.... it's a cold morning to have to deal with it.
 
/me stands corrected.

Hmm. I think I'll keep my 20 year old, old fashioned furnace.

I know how to FIX that. ;)
 
What brand of furnace is it? If Trane (mine), there's a diagnostic code chart on the lower panel (or inside the lower panel? can't recall exactly right now and I'm not home). There's a small, round view port about the size of a pencil eraser in the lower panel. It blinks a diagnostic code that can give you a hint of what might be wrong. You may simply try to shut it off completely, let it sit a few minutes and then turn it back on again (furnace reboot). The blower should come on low speed (the hum?), the igniter should click a few times (snap sound like your gas grill igniter) and then the flame should come on (dull roar sound).
 
hey Greg - I don't recall the snap snap noise. so maybe it is the gas... I am leaving work shortly to go wait for them - my window is 11-3.
 
wsuffa said:
There is an induction ...

...if the overtemp sensor fails, the furnace may not start...

I'd put my money on either the ignitor or the overtemp sensor. Both are relatively inexpensive and relatively quick to fix.

Good luck.... it's a cold morning to have to deal with it.
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Bill, you remind me too much of me. I am fat with core knowledge on topics (like, f'rinstance, furnaces) that is of no routine practical use.

Scary!

By the way... what Bill said!
 
There are two kinds of igniters.

One is a ceramic heating element that glows hot enough to ignite the gas.

The other is like a gas grill igniter and creates sparks.

My Rheem/Ruud gas furnace uses the first kind.
 
thanks guys. now they tell me it will be closer to the 3 PM end for the house call.

it's a York furnace, btw. I'll look again for any more specs on it...
 
SCCutler said:
Bill, you remind me too much of me. I am fat with core knowledge on topics (like, f'rinstance, furnaces) that is of no routine practical use.

Scary!

By the way... what Bill said!
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I live in South Texas, remember? Where cowboys are cowboys, and repairmen are less than competant (if they even bother to show up).

I've had to fix more than one furnace in my life.
 
wsuffa said:
I live in South Texas, remember? Where cowboys are cowboys, and repairmen are less than competant (if they even bother to show up).

I've had to fix more than one furnace in my life.
Click to expand...

I didn't think it got cold enough to need a furnace in Texas. ; )

Missa
 
wsuffa said:
I live in South Texas, remember? Where cowboys are cowboys, and repairmen are less than competant (if they even bother to show up).

I've had to fix more than one furnace in my life.
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I love home repair hacks.

About a year ago, the start knob (momentary twist switch) on our drier stripped. I know, a drop of super glue, and it would have been good to go. But, for the last year, a pair of pliers has laid next to the drier, grab the shaft, give a twist, and away we go.

Friday before the checkride, I went to twist and SNAP! The plastic shaft broke off flush with the switch body. Wife not happy, wants drier to work NOW!

Saturday morning, off to Radio Shack. $1.50 120VAC, 3A momentary contact push button switch, should be good enough on the low current side to pull in the relay.

Go home, pull the control panel, find a blank spot between switches, and drill my hole. Hey, look at that, the control panel is a double panel, two planes of sheet metal maybe 1/4 in apart. Dang, the threads won't pass far enough to the inside for the nut to engage. Looking at the panels, the front decorative facia is much thinner metal than the backing plate, and I spy the trusty hammer.

Three or four good whacks, and the front panel is dented back to meet the rear panel, switch mounts no problem. Snip and strip the wires from the old switch and solder to the terminals of the new switch. Plug it in, clear prop, give it a push...yeah!

Button it up, good to do. Total repair cost: $1.59 for the switch and 60min of my time, including the drive to Rat Shack.

Dent and all, the wife likes her pushbutton much better than the pliers!
 
Bill Jennings said:
I love home repair hacks.... snip Dent and all, the wife likes her pushbutton much better than the pliers!
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I love it! Tim Taylor would be proud of you - y'er my kind of guy, Bill!
 
...plus, the inestimable psych value of performing a repair (as opposed to hiring it done by incompetent nimrods).

Fixing broken things, like flying, is good medicine for my soul. Nothing like crafting a creative repair for something which is broken to make you feel complete (dare I say it, *manly*?).
 
Wood heat, the best around, that is if you can live with the mess. No gas bill and very little electric use.
 
So glad the Cavalry is on the way !
I hear you. The outside Jacuzzi pump went out in the cold snap here last week and the tub's water heat is tied to it by the dumb asses who designed it, so whole hot tub is down.
A living hell.
 
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wsuffa said:
Home warranty should cover this, but my experience with their response time is terrible.

I had one warranty company try and tell me that since I had two furnaces in the house (one for each floor) that it wasn't critical and they would be out in 4 to 5 days. Bzzzzt, wrong answer. They also tried to deny payment because I couldn't prove that the prior owner of the house had done the every-6-month routine season inspections. Let's see, the purpose of the warranty is.....? Then they wondered why I didn't renew even after they threw out all kinds of doom-and-gloom scenarios.

I can get 4-6 hour response out of local HVAC maintenance companies. The best I ever got out of the warranty folks was 12 hours.

This is probably an easy fix. As others pointed out, most modern furnaces have ignitors, not pilot lights. There is an induction blower that creates a draft for the burners to make sure the gas burns well and the exhaust fumes go out the flue. The cycle is that the induction blower starts first (that may be the hum you hear), it runs for a minute or so, the igniter starts and the gas comes on, then about 30 seconds later your fan blower starts. There are a couple of temperature sensors in the system - one is used to start the fan blower when the air gets warm enough, the other is an overtemperature sensor that shuts the gas down if the furnace gets too hot. If the overtemp sensor fails, the furnace may not start.

I'd put my money on either the ignitor or the overtemp sensor. Both are relatively inexpensive and relatively quick to fix.

Good luck.... it's a cold morning to have to deal with it.
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well, it's 62 degrees in the house (sunny day, and low 30s so not freezing out) and 3 PM and he still isn't here - but hopefully within the hour.

I called at 7 AM this morning so, 8 hours so far... as long as he shows up and finishes today no matter what time. given that it MAY need a part, how much you wanna bet he shows up, says "it needs XYZ" and then leaves for an undetermined number of days? what sort of things do they carry in their trucks with them?
 
SCCutler said:
...plus, the inestimable psych value of performing a repair (as opposed to hiring it done by incompetent nimrods).

Fixing broken things, like flying, is good medicine for my soul. Nothing like crafting a creative repair for something which is broken to make you feel complete.
Click to expand...

You've got that right. And when you do it yourself for yourself, you know it was done properly the first time so you don't have to keep worrying about it.

Repairs that look like it never failed in the first place or are better than new = :goofy:
 
woodstock said:
well, it's 62 degrees in the house (sunny day, and low 30s so not freezing out) and 3 PM and he still isn't here - but hopefully within the hour.

I called at 7 AM this morning so, 8 hours so far... as long as he shows up and finishes today no matter what time. given that it MAY need a part, how much you wanna bet he shows up, says "it needs XYZ" and then leaves for an undetermined number of days? what sort of things do they carry in their trucks with them?
Click to expand...

Any of the items that we've mentioned (sensors, ignitor) will be carried on the truck. Worst case - it's not on his truck but it is on another company truck that has to meet him at your house.

If something big (like a blower fan) is bad, they probably have it at their office but there's a chance they'll have to get it tomorrow.
 
SCCutler said:
...plus, the inestimable psych value of performing a repair (as opposed to hiring it done by incompetent nimrods).

Fixing broken things, like flying, is good medicine for my soul. Nothing like crafting a creative repair for something which is broken to make you feel complete (dare I say it, *manly*?).
Click to expand...

Nah, you shouldn't have dared... cause every time I fix something I really don't feel *manly* and fixing things is not the exclusive realm of your gender.

'course I always find it amusing the looks I get when I'm booking it through home depot on a mission. When building storage shelves for the basement in line with one of the flat beds filled with plywood and 2x4's, I got lots of looks... they were a mix of where's the man and I wish my wife was more like her.

Missa
:blowingkisses:
 
I called them to ask them why I still don't have heat at 4 PM (he isn't here yet) and she said they are still working on people who have been on their wait list for 2-3 weeks. I said "you have people who have been without heat for 2-3 weeks?" and she said "yes MAM" and put me on hold (still on hold)

man I hate liars.
 
fgcason said:
You've got that right. And when you do it yourself for yourself, you know it was done properly the first time so you don't have to keep worrying about it.

Repairs that look like it never failed in the first place or are better than new = :goofy:
Click to expand...

That's not exactly how it goes for me. Done properly, yes... done properly the first time, maybe not, but I keep trying till it's done properly :goofy:

Missa
 
woodstock said:
I called them to ask them why I still don't have heat at 4 PM (he isn't here yet) and she said they are still working on people who have been on their wait list for 2-3 weeks. I said "you have people who have been without heat for 2-3 weeks?" and she said "yes MAM" and put me on hold (still on hold)

man I hate liars.
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Try turning ALL the house lights on & leave 'em on 24/7 until furnace is fixed, it helps with a few BTUs plus kitchen oven. You have one or two little electric heaters ? If not and they don't show to fix, I bet you could get out to Home Depot later for a few & they'll hold you indefinately...
 
well, today wasn't bad really and tomorrow might not be either (tonight will be 12 degrees though) but I am going to be in Vegas starting Thursday unless the &(^%$*& don't get this thing fixed. I can't leave my cats here alone with no heat, and I surely can't chance something happening to the pipes while I am away. I'll bring up the wasted vacation time and money in the lawsuit.

well he just pulled up. wonders never cease. 415 PM.
 
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Missa said:
That's not exactly how it goes for me. Done properly, yes... done properly the first time, maybe not, but I keep trying till it's done properly :goofy:
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Learning curve. It still gets done properly eventually plus you learned something useful at the same time.
 
he just left. draft inducer? (heat inducer?)

he didn't fix it - he has to get the part tomorrow. had he showed up on time, he could have picked it up and fixed it. not bloody efficient is it? one more night of cold...

he did say Yorks are pieces of crap. builder grade, he works on them all the time. figures.
 
Ah ... not good.

The draft inducer is the fan that runs before the flame is lit in order to make sure that the exhaust goes up the chimney. It creates an upflow of air before enough heat is present to do so.

Without a draft inducer fan running, the electronics will refuse to light the burner for fear of exhaust getting into your room.

We had to replace the draft inducer fan in our Ruud furnace because the plastic housing was cracked (potentially letting CO into the house). The new one was metal so apparently there was a design flaw.

Head to Home Depot and buy an electric radiator or you'll be quite cold tonight. Curl up with the kitties.
 
Missa said:
I didn't think it got cold enough to need a furnace in Texas. ; )

Missa
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Yeah, but nothing like Michigan. ;)

Left here last Thurs for some networking & social events in Cincinnati/Dayton. Temp hit 27F here in San Antone on Wed night, froze pool fill valve, so I had to shut off pool pump for the weekend. All the potted plants (lemon/lime trees, avocado, olive tree, etc), are snugged up in a little greenhouse. The banana tree leaves have turned brown from frostbite.

Then again, got to Cincy 2-1/2 hours late (bite me, Comair), and as a result of the delay, landed in a snowstorm. I'm convinced that the drivers in Cincinnati don't handle the snow any better than someone from, say, Austin would.
 
MSmith said:
Ah ... not good.

The draft inducer is the fan that runs before the flame is lit in order to make sure that the exhaust goes up the chimney. It creates an upflow of air before enough heat is present to do so.

Without a draft inducer fan running, the electronics will refuse to light the burner for fear of exhaust getting into your room.

We had to replace the draft inducer fan in our Ruud furnace because the plastic housing was cracked (potentially letting CO into the house). The new one was metal so apparently there was a design flaw.

Head to Home Depot and buy an electric radiator or you'll be quite cold tonight. Curl up with the kitties.
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ok, this is scary. I asked him specifically about CO and he said as long as the heat exchanger isn't broken it isn't something to worry about. and the HE is fine.

I bought a small space heater today, wonder if I should get a second one. the house stayed at 62 degrees today (sunny) but it will be 12 degrees tonight outside!!
 
woodstock said:
well, it's 62 degrees in the house (sunny day, and low 30s so not freezing out) and 3 PM and he still isn't here - but hopefully within the hour.

I called at 7 AM this morning so, 8 hours so far... as long as he shows up and finishes today no matter what time. given that it MAY need a part, how much you wanna bet he shows up, says "it needs XYZ" and then leaves for an undetermined number of days? what sort of things do they carry in their trucks with them?
Click to expand...

Is this the "home warranty" guy?

When those folks worked on my stuff, the parts had to come from a central depot --- in Memphis...
 
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