Fuel prices on the rise

I'm in the O&G business and about as far right as you can get politically....but this run up in oil prices has very little to do with the current occupant in the WH and more to do with the crash in 2014 of oil prices.

From the early 2000's to 2014, O&G was easy and drew tremendous investment from Wall Street to main street. After 2014, that investment dried up, not just here in the USA, but all over the world. For example, Saudi Arabia has less rigs operational than any time in recent memory.

Why did it dry up? The easy money was gone, and the people that invested money wanted to actually see a return. Shale plays are a little like Ponzi schemes as they need continual investment as the production drops off dramatically after the first year.

You are seeing the result of less investment because of those reasons, and here where it gets political, there is tremendous pressure on investors to be green, and having a bunch of Oil and Gas on their balance sheet isn't politically correct, so you see less bigger investors putting money into the market. Instead they can buy the S&P and FAANG (Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, Google) and make big bucks without the backlash from the greens.

Here is where capitalism comes in to save the day, we need to see higher and higher prices to lure that money back into the industry. And with high demand and low supply, the price is coming up. I'm seeing more and more investment in CAPX than I have seen in years. It's going to take some time for the market to equalize, and I am guessing $100 oil is where it will hit before it's over. OPEC (Saudi's mainly) learned a lesson also, they are not going to just turn on the spigots, they are going to let this run. After 2014, they really pumped a lot more than they should have, trying to put the Shale play out of business. They almost succeeded...but American ingenuity won out. Everybody cut margins (and pay), the smart guys figured out cheaper ways of doing things and the inefficient went out of business. You are now left with a completely different industry than you had in 2014.

And another aspect of this is also political, as is everything in life. Mexico is so corrupt their oil production has dropped off a cliff and the American Oil companies are now in there trying to salvage the whole industry. Venezuala, well we know what socialism has done to their economy, but their oil production is basically nil....and what there is is all going to China to pay for their bailout. Libya, yeah, a mess. Iran, still sneaking out oil but most won't touch it except China. Iraq, well it actually doing pretty good. Nigeria? A mess. Chad? Dropping to nothing. Canada? What a mess, the federal government is basically trying to put their whole industry out of business. My sales there dropped to zero in the last two years.

The current occupant has made it very difficult to get drilling permits on federal land, and that has a effect on prices, but we are talking maybe a dollar or two a barrel. While he came out and took credit for a 10 cent decrease, that is long gone in this latest runup.

And while crashing oil prices create havoc on the industry, we have fared very well during those times. Because we concentrate on customer service in an industry that doesn't have any. When purchasing managers are losing their jobs left and right, we are there to support them and they remember that.

Avgas will hit $5 a gallon soon....and may hit $6 before it's over (speaking the cheapest pricing seen on Foreflight). That's my prediction and I may be wrong. But it's my way of staying on topic.

100LL has been $5.21 gal for months at my airport. In 2018 it was $5.25 gal. 2020 it was $4.30 gal.and less at my airport. I remember 3. Something in 2020.

2015 Signature was $6.66 gallon across town. So 5 dollar avgas is nothing new around here. 45 minutes away it is $4.00 gal still.

Imo the current administration is why we have inflation and higher fuel prices. Prices were low and stable until January 2021. I also have been in the petroleum business since 1983.
 
Elections have consequences.
Sounds like BS to me
Ok let’s stop the dog pile. He was just making conversation.
You and everyone else know that is not true. You just like it because it fits your narrative.
Yes, feeling entitled to certain quality of living is a sure sign of progress so I am not sure what is your point here … I don’t want to go back and why should I ?
Many Americans feel entitled to a “quality of living” but not universal healthcare for children, much less for adults. Also happy to have that “quality of living” while passing by the homeless veterans and victims of a mental health crisis. Odd that it is gas prices that cause some to complain.
Imo the current administration is why we have inflation and higher fuel prices. Prices were low and stable until January 2021. I also have been in the petroleum business since 1983.
I guess this proves @Morgan3820 wrong that you weren’t trying to make it political.

IMO some other past administration was completely incompetent (and perhaps left a giant mess to clean up), but I won’t mention who. But let’s go back in history and review average gas prices under Clinton and Bush 2. Prices were much lower and more stable under Clinton than under Bush.
2008 3.25
2007 2.8
2006 2.57
2005 2.27
2004 1.85
2003 1.56
2002 1.35
2001 1.42
2000 1.48
1999 1.14
1998 1.03
1997 1.2
1996 1.2
1995 1.11
1994 1.08
1993 1.07

Then consider the prices under the Obama administration. These prices were inherited quite high from Bush and never rose more than 10% from the Bush high, and dropped significantly in the last few years. Administrations inherit the economy that is given to them by their predecessors and this may include gas prices. Bush inherited a great economy from Clinton and it reflects the gas prices in the first few years.

If the world is running smoothly and there is respect, then global trade works well. If you start wars in the Middle East, for example, prices rise. If you make the US a laughing stock and cause world leaders to lose their trust in your administration, then global trade breaks down as a result and it takes year to recover.
2016 2.14
2015 2.43
2014 3.36
2013 3.51
2012 3.62
2011 3.52
2010 2.78
2009 2.35
2008 3.25
 
Hey there Johnny Ray, I’m guessing you haven’t purchased a car or a pick up truck recently. Or a house, lumber, or anything made out of metal.
Avg price for a new car is $46,000 as per news today.
 
You and everyone else know that is not true. You just like it because it fits your narrative.

Many Americans feel entitled to a “quality of living” but not universal healthcare for children, much less for adults. Also happy to have that “quality of living” while passing by the homeless veterans and victims of a mental health crisis. Odd that it is gas prices that cause some to complain.

I guess this proves @Morgan3820 wrong that you weren’t trying to make it political.

IMO some other past administration was completely incompetent (and perhaps left a giant mess to clean up), but I won’t mention who. But let’s go back in history and review average gas prices under Clinton and Bush 2. Prices were much lower and more stable under Clinton than under Bush.
2008 3.25
2007 2.8
2006 2.57
2005 2.27
2004 1.85
2003 1.56
2002 1.35
2001 1.42
2000 1.48
1999 1.14
1998 1.03
1997 1.2
1996 1.2
1995 1.11
1994 1.08
1993 1.07

Then consider the prices under the Obama administration. These prices were inherited quite high from Bush and never rose more than 10% from the Bush high, and dropped significantly in the last few years. Administrations inherit the economy that is given to them by their predecessors and this may include gas prices. Bush inherited a great economy from Clinton and it reflects the gas prices in the first few years.

If the world is running smoothly and there is respect, then global trade works well. If you start wars in the Middle East, for example, prices rise. If you make the US a laughing stock and cause world leaders to lose their trust in your administration, then global trade breaks down as a result and it takes year to recover.
2016 2.14
2015 2.43
2014 3.36
2013 3.51
2012 3.62
2011 3.52
2010 2.78
2009 2.35
2008 3.25

Hahaha…butthurt ,aren’t we ?
 
I was making an observation, not necessarily a complaint. Of course I think keeping costs and barrier to entry low for GA is important otherwise we become a dying breed!
 
Can't buy 100LL at KPOU (Hudson Valley Regional) the truck is broken and there is no self serve fuel on the field.
I'm going to have to drive to 44N (Sky Acres) and buy 5 gallons.
I only have 3 gallons in PA-17. It's enough to fly over there, but if something goes wrong, not enough to go there and get back.
sigh...
 
Can't buy 100LL at KPOU (Hudson Valley Regional) the truck is broken and there is no self serve fuel on the field.
I'm going to have to drive to 44N (Sky Acres) and buy 5 gallons.
I only have 3 gallons in PA-17. It's enough to fly over there, but if something goes wrong, not enough to go there and get back.
sigh...
You need a tanker truck...I have had this tank in all of my trucks since 1993. Currently it holds 100LL.
IMG_0767.JPG
 
Yes, feeling entitled to certain quality of living is a sure sign of progress so I am not sure what is your point here … I don’t want to go back and why should I ?

i think you just made my point.
You and everyone else know that is not true. You just like it because it fits your narrative.

Many Americans feel entitled to a “quality of living” but not universal healthcare for children, much less for adults. Also happy to have that “quality of living” while passing by the homeless veterans and victims of a mental health crisis. Odd that it is gas prices that cause some to complain.

I guess this proves @Morgan3820 wrong that you weren’t trying to make it political.

IMO some other past administration was completely incompetent (and perhaps left a giant mess to clean up), but I won’t mention who. But let’s go back in history and review average gas prices under Clinton and Bush 2. Prices were much lower and more stable under Clinton than under Bush.
2008 3.25
2007 2.8
2006 2.57
2005 2.27
2004 1.85
2003 1.56
2002 1.35
2001 1.42
2000 1.48
1999 1.14
1998 1.03
1997 1.2
1996 1.2
1995 1.11
1994 1.08
1993 1.07

Then consider the prices under the Obama administration. These prices were inherited quite high from Bush and never rose more than 10% from the Bush high, and dropped significantly in the last few years. Administrations inherit the economy that is given to them by their predecessors and this may include gas prices. Bush inherited a great economy from Clinton and it reflects the gas prices in the first few years.

If the world is running smoothly and there is respect, then global trade works well. If you start wars in the Middle East, for example, prices rise. If you make the US a laughing stock and cause world leaders to lose their trust in your administration, then global trade breaks down as a result and it takes year to recover.
2016 2.14
2015 2.43
2014 3.36
2013 3.51
2012 3.62
2011 3.52
2010 2.78
2009 2.35
2008 3.25

Adjusted for inflation
2008. $4.20
2014. 3.94
2016 2.48

Consumers have really bad gasoline price memories. They always remember the lows and forget the highs.

Adjusted for inflation, gasoline is 28% less expensive than 2008 and 24% less expensive than 2014. 20% more than 2016.
 
i think you just made my point.


Adjusted for inflation
2008. $4.20
2014. 3.94
2016 2.48

Consumers have really bad gasoline price memories. They always remember the lows and forget the highs.

Adjusted for inflation, gasoline is 28% less expensive than 2008 and 24% less expensive than 2014. 20% more than 2016.


“Adjusted for inflation” doesn’t mean much in a practical sense if my income isn’t similarly adjusted. And in 2021, it wasn’t.
 
“Adjusted for inflation” doesn’t mean much in a practical sense if my income isn’t similarly adjusted. And in 2021, it wasn’t.

especially when fuel prices can be a significant driver in the computation of inflation.
 
“Adjusted for inflation” doesn’t mean much in a practical sense if my income isn’t similarly adjusted. And in 2021, it wasn’t.
If you income is not at least keeping up with inflation fuel costs aren’t your biggest worry.
 
If you income is not at least keeping up with inflation fuel costs aren’t your biggest worry.


Over the decades I worked before retiring, on average my earning increases outpaced inflation. I expect the same over the upcoming years from my investment income.

But in any given year, that might not happen. And I doubt whether most people received pay raises in 2021 that were greater than inflation. The average raise in 2021 was 3% ( https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandto...ges/revised-2022-salary-increase-budgets.aspx ) whereas the annual inflation was about 6.8%.

It’s no comfort to anyone to show them figures that are adjusted for inflation. What matters is the relationship between their income and outgo, and in 2021 most people took a hit.
 
Gosh I guess you don't buy gasoline or diesel fuel for your car or truck?
If you only have to fill up your gas tank four or five times a year you tend to forget exactly how much it costs.
 
I was making an observation, not necessarily a complaint. Of course I think keeping costs and barrier to entry low for GA is important otherwise we become a dying breed!

Costs to enter GA hasn’t been low since 1980.
 
I know exactly how much I spent Over $3.500 on 100LL last year
I spent between $1000.-$1200 per month on 100LL this past year. Year before last I was spending 700-800 a month when fuel was a dollar a gallon cheaper. I am feeling the higher fuel prices. I try to fly every day the weather is good.

I am feeling the pain of higher everything, oil, filters, plugs, tires, window cleaner you name it it cost more now.

sucks!
 
Hey I gotta say this thread turned into a cool discussion. It’s been difficult to thread the needle as it obvious veered towards a political realm. But with many different viewpoints expressed - it’s not turned into a food fight- that’s refreshing!

Almost goes to show ya when we check our “talking point” lines and zingers at the door it’s still possible to talk about issues from differing viewpoints in a constructive way.
 
Almost goes to show ya when we check our “talking point” lines and zingers at the door it’s still possible to talk about issues from differing viewpoints in a constructive way.

Or ... some of us know feces when we read it and have the discipline to just ignore it. ;)
 
“Adjusted for inflation” doesn’t mean much in a practical sense if my income isn’t similarly adjusted. And in 2021, it wasn’t.
It's also the "great resignation."

If you can't pull a raise right now either you or your employer suck, and either way that's your problem to fix.
 
what will this new non lead 100 cost ?
Swift Fuels says comparable pricing to today. GAMI says 60 cents to 80 cents more... but I think they're misstating the data.

What GAMI *means* is that the COGS (cost of goods sold) will be about 70 cents per gallon more, compared to today's 100LL. But neither GAMI nor any of the rest of us yet know what the marketplace will do.

The oil companies enjoy an advantage with 100LL... there aren't many independents interested in taking on leaded fuel clean-up liabilities for their blending sites. The oil companies have been blending leaded gasoline for just under 100 years now... so their sites are already contaminated, and clean up is kind of a sunk cost.

With the advent of unleaded avgas, there are all kinds of blenders who may choose to enter the market, like maybe the guy making paint thinner for Home Depot. Mogas (like you buy at the Texaco station on the corner) has about a 4 cents per gallon margin. Avgas offers about an 80 cents per gallon margin to the blender (plus whatever the airport and FBO tack on.) That 80 cents is going to be attractive to some small operators, and they may enter the market and help compete away some of that 80 cent/gallon margin.

So... knowing the COGS for unleaded avgas doesn't really tell us where the pricing will settle after a while...

There are folks here who think there's a multiplier effect between wholesale price and retail price on gasoline. Many decades of economic data do not show that... just a margin that's applied to COGS. But, there's always people willing to scare themselves. :)

Paul
 
Seems a lot of it may be a "what the market will bear" kinda deal. That of course depends on how fast 100LL is taken away, how many suppliers there are, and what government actions may or may not be put in place to regulate the cost.
 
Swift Fuels says comparable pricing to today. GAMI says 60 cents to 80 cents more... but I think they're misstating the data.

What GAMI *means* is that the COGS (cost of goods sold) will be about 70 cents per gallon more, compared to today's 100LL. But neither GAMI nor any of the rest of us yet know what the marketplace will do.

The oil companies enjoy an advantage with 100LL... there aren't many independents interested in taking on leaded fuel clean-up liabilities for their blending sites. The oil companies have been blending leaded gasoline for just under 100 years now... so their sites are already contaminated, and clean up is kind of a sunk cost.

With the advent of unleaded avgas, there are all kinds of blenders who may choose to enter the market, like maybe the guy making paint thinner for Home Depot. Mogas (like you buy at the Texaco station on the corner) has about a 4 cents per gallon margin. Avgas offers about an 80 cents per gallon margin to the blender (plus whatever the airport and FBO tack on.) That 80 cents is going to be attractive to some small operators, and they may enter the market and help compete away some of that 80 cent/gallon margin.

So... knowing the COGS for unleaded avgas doesn't really tell us where the pricing will settle after a while...

There are folks here who think there's a multiplier effect between wholesale price and retail price on gasoline. Many decades of economic data do not show that... just a margin that's applied to COGS. But, there's always people willing to scare themselves. :)

Paul
Once they go unleaded they should be able to transport it via the mainstream transport infrastructure as well, the pipelines et al. Not segregated like 100LL is currently. That should decrease costs as well.
 
If you can't pull a raise right now either you or your employer suck, and either way that's your problem to fix.

Ouch. Locked in a 3.2% inflation adjusted paycut this CY. I do suck tho. Wife says it's that SJS won't let me grow up and get a rEaL job, like errline pirate or something. *petulant shrug* Cue the Toys-R-Us jingle b$tches, cuz I'm dun growing up! #McJob #AtleastIgotChicken
:D


upload_2022-1-7_21-46-42.png
 
Ouch. Locked in a 3.2% inflation adjusted paycut this CY. I do suck tho. Wife says it's that SJS won't let me grow up and get a rEaL job, like errline pirate or something. *petulant shrug* Cue the Toys-R-Us jingle b$tches, cuz I'm dun growing up! #McJob #AtleastIgotChicken
:D


View attachment 103485
Plenty of employers suck. But pretty much every industry is hiring now too, and with all the work from home you don't even have to relocate to many of them. So as a wise self made millionaire told me long ago... "Get the money, get the money, get the money."
 
Once they go unleaded they should be able to transport it via the mainstream transport infrastructure as well, the pipelines et al. Not segregated like 100LL is currently. That should decrease costs as well.
That's not going to happen... avgas cargoes are too small to be economic on multi-product pipelines because the transmix (transportation mixing between grades on the pipeline) can't be downgraded either way (too aromatic to add to mogas, and mogas is too low octane to be added to avgas). So it has to be expensively trucked back to the refinery, and downgraded for reprocessing. Product integrity concerns will results in segregated product handling just like today, for liability reasons... Chevron and Exxon both had over $100 million each damage claims for contaminated avgas... no one has the appetite to expose themselves to that kind of liability.

Oh... et al. is short for et alii, other people... perhaps you meant et cetera, etc. other things? Or, I'm missing the context of who those people in the infrastructure chain are that you're referring to.

Paul
 
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