frustrated.. please advise!!

einepilotin

einepilotin

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einepilotin
Hello, I'm a new pilot student. I almost get to hate flying with a lot of pressure.. I started flying again, 12 hours now. I have 40 hours from 2 years ago. No solo. That experience doesn't help me at all now. First, when I stared flying again, my instructor pointed out the lack of 'Attitude Flying' skill. My pitch is going up and down, a huge mess.. After a couple of pattern work, I actually get to see, how my pitch is changing. I believed that I was scanning the pitch attitude before, but apparently I wasn't. Anyway after a series of horrible mess-up, I sat down and analyse my go-pro video, read materials, doing lots of chair-flying, I study a lot the theory too...... So there was some improvements, I was pretty good for the last 2 lessons, thought I'm gonna do the solo today, finally!!!!!!!!!!

But you know what, I was the worst today. My instructor told me my improvement has been quite slow, and today i even lost the sense of keeping attitude flying and other things I was good at earlier. All gone. He said i'm not focusing.. he stopped talking to me in flight. I think he got disappointed. i'm doing my best focusing and controlling... devastated, but still didn't give up. As i have been told, cross check, outside and instrument, keeping the rpm setting and altitude as procedure says, thinking of attitude and constant descent rate, stable pattern path everything that I tried to hard to learn.... But somewhat today, i was a huge mess. awful. What's wrong with me. :(

The instructor already taught me everything i need to know. I also prepare a lot. I memorize all the call-outs, practice with chair flying. My instructor told me i know a bit too much for PPL student. I don't have death grip anymore as well, trying to relaxed..... Why i can't do that when i know what i need to do that!!!!

So after the horrible flying today, he told me I should prepare more. I wanted to cry. How can I prepare more than this?? I heard people go on their solo at 40 something hours. Why my instructor already gives me the impression that I'm doing clumsy and stupid. I think he is a good instructor. I just wonder how I should take this situation. He knows that I am the person learn first with books and academically, his advise really helps, making things better, but i mess up... again and again.. :(

The question is, are other people being told the good advice, but making same mistake for 30 hours and finally ready for solo? Am I really slow at learning the flying?????? why do i mess up even when i know what i have to do?!! when even I did the same job good earlier? Please help..!
 
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First, calm down. A stressed out pilot will always fly worse than a calm pilot. Breathe deep. Relax.

Visualize the traffic pattern. What is it really? It's a string of simple maneuvers you probably can already do easily out in the practice area. Right?

1. A level constant speed climb. That's upwind.

2. A climbing constant speed turn and 90 degree heading change. That's crosswind.

3. Another climbing constant speed turn and a level off at a specific altitude. Now you're downwind.

(Additionally you need to know how to judge distances and have made these turns to place yourself about 1/2 mile away from the runway looking at it out your side window. Another skill you learned flying rectangular courses in the practice area. Right? Simple.)

4. Descending constant speed turn while losing about 400' of altitude, started when you're approximately 45 degrees from the point of intended landing, and turning 90 degrees.

5. Descending constant speed turn that starts soon enough to roll out on runway heading very close to lined up with the runway and about 1/2 mile out.

Etc.

I think two things are going on...

You're overthinking this. All of it. Just fly the simple items and string them together.

Your instructor may have overworked pattern work or landings and you've "plateaued". Normally the fix for this is to go do something else. Something completely different.

Think about this... if you string those five very simple maneuvers together at the right landmarks over the ground, you'll be 90% of the way to a perfect pattern.

Then just easy corrections to line up, maintain the nose down the centerline, keep your aim point from going up or down the window, and level off a few feet above the runway, and while continuing to raise the nose, smoothly reduce power, and land... keeping the runway centerline right under the nosegear.

Don't over complicate it. Plan each little piece as a simple maneuver that you already know how to do. Fly each maneuver smoothly. Trim is your friend. Can you release control pressure and the airplane will continue in the maneuver? Smooth flying is precise flying. Easy on the controls. The airplane will fly just fine without you if it's trimmed.

Now... stop reading these words and go sit in a chair and visualize it. Words only go so far. Think what your hands and feet will do for each little piece of the pattern. Simplify.
 
Just got my ticket in October. That happened to me. No matter what I did I couldn't nail a landing worth a crap. Got frustrated and upset. Couldn't figure it out. Instructor kept telling me what I was doing wrong and I
Knew what i was doing wrong, but no matter what I did it wasn't working.
Had three or four bad weather days (a break). First day back I moved the seat one click foreword, (no idea if this had anything to do with it or not) but I relaxed and nailed it. My landings have been awesome (most times!) since. Don't know how but it fixed it. Wife says the whole thing was an exercise in patience.

Relax step back and take a break. You know how to fly the plane it'll come!


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I'm a student, with less hours than you but while I haven't had problems with attitude flying using the horizon, and early on in noticed when the instructor was giving me a lot of instruction (too much at that particular point) that I was squeezing the hell out of the yoke, and I actually ignored him and loosened my grip and relaxed. It was my decision at the time that I needed to relax and it helped a lot.

But in your case, I don't know enough yet, and can't give advice like an experienced pilot would, except I also play guitar in bands and it seems a little similar to me to stage freight. When playing a gig, I can be very nervous up until it starts but then "it's for real" and it just melts off and I am IN it and even if I make a minor mistake I let it go, fix it or move on. I also need to get there with flying.

I too do a lot of preparation for my lessons. I wrote recently that practicing armchair flying I focused very much on radio work, and especially (since the student handbook was vague on these points) correct carb heat when descending or climbing, making it automatic. Sure enough, I wimped out on the radio, had the CFI take over, and I kept forgetting carb heat.

I'm a much more practiced and experienced guitarist, but as a guitarist I don't (usually) have a chance of dying or crashing if I mess up but performance anxiety used to hit me. It's when you entertain doubts that they can grow out of proportion.

Also like you I tend to think a lot, read a lot, and have lots of weird questions that I realized I should stop doing and when actually flying, should just "know" what my instructor tells me.

Maybe you are overthinking, and then get overwhelmed...but the most worrisome is you mentioning your instructor making you feel clumsy and stupid.

Just a couple of suggestions, first I would talk with the instructor and let him know how much you prepare, and also that you feel like he feels you are not good....you may well be wrong. I had some of those feelings, but it was because mine tends to push, but every now and then says things like "now likes like you've done this before" and even "I think you are doing well" and I get good marks on my debriefing.

But I did have to mention that some of the style didn't help me...I know also mine is a great pilot and I definitely will keep him as my instructor as long as he will have me, but You might need a CFI that matches what you need to learn? But if you first talk to him he or she may be able to adjust their teaching to help you more or point out better ways to prepare? Just talk with your CFI as this is an ongoing problem.

I would also eliminate all extra sources of stress, like thnking of soloing. In fact, try to ignore a lot of what you learned other than in the plane, from your instructor. Ask if you can go slowly through one thing at a time for a little with the idea of putting it all together as soon as it sticks.

One big thing for me. I LOVE flying, being up in the air, the view, and in some training flights I notice I never got to even enjoy the actual flying because of so much to do. I'm still hearing from my CFI that other than getting to a specific heading or altitude though I should monitor of course all the instruments, I should really be concentrating on attitude, airspeed (instrument but also feel and sound) and horizon, looking around for other traffic, etc. this helped me some. Trying to gauge bank angles (checking against the instruments) and I see the value of flying without too much eyes inside.

It sounds like you are in kind of an emotional spiral down, and because of it maybe you are missing the positives. Again spend a little time on the ground talking with your CFI, about all this. Ask what he thinks you are doing well as well as what you need the most work on. Pick one thing out of what you need to work on and focus on that next time? Soon as you get it go to the next.

One thing that is dawning on me, I am not the PIC when flying, but when I am flying it is up to me, and my CFI is there to point out what I do wrong, test me on things, and teach me new things. But in a way I have to pretend that I am alone up there when flying, he is not a set of training wheels, I am flying, he is the "stall warning" if I get into problems, and also gives feedback if or when I am sloppy.

But if you love flying, try to make sure you enjoy the thrill of it, and try not so see maneuvers as a chance to fail again but "I got this, I've practiced and I can do it"

i wish you the best of luck, and progress!
 
How much slow flight and ground reference maneuvers have you done away from the traffic pattern? Have you practiced trimming the airplane at various airspeeds and power settings away from the traffic pattern? If you get out of the pattern and nail these basics then the pattern and landings become much easier.
 
Heed the encouraging words above.

I kept my main instructor for most of my training, except the last few hours when he took job out of town. I finished with a different guy, and I flew with 3 other instructors intermittently throughout when mine wasn't available. I actually learned a lot by flying with the other guys, and picked up a few things that got me past some sticking points (some I figured out on my own). I say that to suggest doing a 1 hour flight with a few other instructors to see if they pick up on something or suggest a different way, while keeping your current instructor.
 
One thing that jumps out at me reading the description of poor attitude flying is TRIM. If the plane fights you, it's a common reason. At altitude, let go of the yoke and see where it goes.

The death grip has been mentioned, and everyone has trouble with that at some point. The trim is its cousin. You should be able to fly a 172 with no more than two fingers.

Sometimes one flight with a different instructor can shake something loose. In my case, one landing with a different instructor exposed that I could put light pressure on the brakes with my heels on the floor. No wonder my landings were always firm....
 
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Flying a airplane is much like swinging a golf club. The best golfers "feel" the swing rather than constantly reminding themselves of the mechanics of the swing such as "keep the head still, left arm straight, etc". Your description of flying appears to be very much like a mechanical approach to the golf swing. When one becomes mechanical they forget that one must exert some physical effort that is guided by "feel" and instinct not by the last book you read or GoPro video. My suggestion is to take a break from the intellectual learning of flying and rather go up and fly and try to develop some skills based on instinct and not mechanics. In other words, try to learn skills such as slow flight, steep turns, etc by absorbing how it "feels" rather than telling yourself that you must do a+b+c to accomplish the maneuver. Finally, go up with a friend and have a pleasure flight with no pressure and enjoy the experience. Flying should be fun.
 
I was a particularly slow learner.

I found it helpful to change flight instructors.

I found it helpful to change aircraft.

I would never talk to my clients the way you describe your instructor talking to you.

Difficulty with a particular aspect of flying is an opportunity to learn.

Part of what I love about flight instructing is overcoming these challenges.

I feel you flight instructors attitude may be rubbing off on you.
 
Stop worrying so much and so thinking about it so much.

I agree with possum. It sounds like your WAY WAY over thinking it. Relax! Enjoy it! Flying is fun!

When you drive do you worry about exactly where the wheels are or do you just instinctively put them in the lane? Similarly with flying, just feel where the airplane should be and put it there.

I would also highly recommend flying with another instructor.

Also as MAKG1 said, you should be able to let go of the yoke and the airplane should fly straight ahead. If it's not then you aren't trimming properly.
 
Remember flying is supposed to be fun,try to relax. Also have a phase check by a different instructor,it may help.
 
It sounds to me like you're stressing yourself out and creating unnecessary anxiety. Try to take it easy. Have your CFI do some trim exercises with you so you can see how it affects the control response and attitude of the nose. Slow flight may be another exercise that will help, have you done much of these two? It also doesn't seem like your current instructor is helping very much by some of the things you've stated. It's possible that he/she might actually be stressing you out. Might not hurt to look for someone else that you're more comfortable with.
 
I would like to know if the previous 40 hours from two years ago and the recent 12 were all with the same CFI. 52 hours without soloing is crazy. I would think anyone with some sense would have switched instructors a few times along the way if it was taking that many hours.
 
I agree with what others already said - get a new instructor and learn how to trim the plane. The thing should fly pretty much hands off, if trimmed correctly.

If you have to constantly watch the pitch attitude and fight the plane, while your in the traffic pattern, something is definitely not right.

Have you heard about the rule "pitch (trim) for speed, power for altitude"? That pretty much says it all - after take off you leave full throttle in and pitch for Vy (best climb). As you pitch, you trim the plane to take pressure of the yoke. Once the pressure is gone, the plane only needs minimal corrections and should fly pretty much hands off.

Shortly before reaching pattern altitude, you start to pitch down to reduce the rate of climb and to gain some more airpeed, while maintaining full power. As your reach pattern altitude, your continue to pitch down until you reach the desired speed and pull so much power that the plane stays at the desired altitude. Again, as you change the pitch, you trim to take away the pressure from the yoke. Once you have adjusted trim and power, the plane should again fly pretty much by itself.

When landing, same thing - pitch for speed, adjust the glide path with power.

Until you have established a feel for speed and altitude, check every few seconds the airspeed indicator and the altimeter, however without staring at them and without trying to chase the needles. As before, if the speed is off, slightly adjust the trim, if the altitude is off, carefully adjust power. Do not wait for the changes to take effect, but instead look out the window again, stay relaxed on the yoke and only check the effects of your changes a few seconds later. Re-adjust if necessary.

These are basic skills, every flight instructor should be able to teach you. Ohh, and did I already say that you should get another flight instructor? ;)

Where are you located and which airplane are you flying? If you are in the US, somebody could possibly take you for a ride. Your username however suggests that you are German!?

Oliver
 
Don't overthink. I was doing it and didn't learn crap in 5 hours. for me, I was fixated on the instruments and especially the rudder, I was determined for the ball to be at the center every second of my flying. yesterday my CFI turned the PFD off and there wasn't a steam inclinometer and I flew for 30 mins and even entered pattern without any instruments. I was just flying the plane with visual reference and I actually enjoyed doing it for the first time.
read my thread and you will see you are a zillion miles ahead of me. about your instructor... I don't think that's the right attitude of a teacher. either tell him that he is making things worse or go with a diff CFI. no teacher should make you feel clumsy and stupid, that's just ridiculous.

keep going, you will nail it. if it takes another 5 hours... well so what? are you chasing any number? I am not. if it takes me 90 hours to solo.. so be it. I aint giving up and you shouldn't too.
 
Get away from the pattern and just fly for fun for a while. Fly by looking outside and just use the instruments to check that the plane is doing what you want it too. If you are using the instruments to determine your control inputs, you will always be chasing them. When you ride a bicycle, you don't need ball to tell you how much to lean into a turn, you do it by feel. Someday, you will notice that you are holding a lot of rudder and check ball to be pleasantly surprised that it is in the middle. You will have learned to coordinate your turns literally by "the seat of your pants" and/or the small of your back against the seat.
 
What most above said is great advice. Relax! tell your instructor you'd like to work on something else. You may be overburdening yourself and overthinking this, a small break to a different aspect of flying working on different things, and coming back to the pattern may help you. Also you may want to try a different instructor. They may be able to see something your current instructor does not, or just teach it a different way that you may understand better. Don't give up! It'll come together and click and you'll feel great and it will be very rewarding! Keep working on it!
 
I also belong to the group who suggests to change the instructor. Also go out on a cross country or at least to another airport in your area. Flying is fun and you should enjoy every second of it.

Keep my fingers crossed that you find an instructor who understands your needs.
 
Graueradler said:
Get away from the pattern and just fly for fun for a while. Fly by looking outside and just use the instruments to check that the plane is doing what you want it too. If you are using the instruments to determine your control inputs, you will always be chasing them.
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This x2

At times, instructors will drape a sectional* over the edge of the panel so the student doesn't get distracted by all the gauges and blinkenlights. I heard rumors that there were aircraft that didn't have attitude instruments yet people still learned how to fly them !!



* unwieldy piece of paper with printed navigational information, it's what people used before the ipad was invented.
 
Lot of people feel that maybe this flying thing might be too difficult to learn. Something that you just can't get around of. It passes. You just keep working on it. There is no rule of how many hours to solo or finish up your pp. Everyone is different. I had a tough time with landings and crosswind landings. Now they don't bother me at all. Don't know at what hour I started feeling the plane, but it snuck up on me.
 
weilke said:
This x2

At times, instructors will drape a sectional* over the edge of the panel so the student doesn't get distracted by all the gauges and blinkenlights. I heard rumors that there were aircraft that didn't have attitude instruments yet people still learned how to fly them !!
* unwieldy piece of paper with printed navigational information, it's what people used before the ipad was invented.
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no rumor, yesterday when I went up, after 30 mins of hood time, my CFI turned the PFD off, with so much going on I completely forgot there are 3 steam gauges that I could look at, but I flew for 30 mins without any instrument reference whatsoever. I also got a feeling of when I need the rudder, there weren't any ball to see and that's the first time I enjoyed flying. those G1000 are great, but outright distraction in my case.
 
Hang in there OP! I'm about 22 hours into the process, and I'm had some of the same frustrations, especially when I repeat the same mistake. It hasn't helped that I've 3 different instructors: the first retired (I told him I hoped I wasn't so bad that I drove him from the business), and the second was an ex AF instructor who decided the private sector wasn't for him.

At that point I asked to meet with the owner of the school to discuss a plan going forward. He agreed the turnover wasn't helping, and he took me on as his student. I like his teaching style, and we get along well personally. We've had 3 lessons together, latest today.

Like you, I think I tend to over think the mechanics, instead to just putting the airplane where I want it. Possum's golf analogy makes tremendous sense to me- when I was trying to learn how to play golf, I focused entirely too much on swing mechanics instead of thinking about what I wanted the ball to do. I think it's fine to spend some practice time thinking about the position of my right elbow, etc., but when it's time to play I do infinitely better when my only thought is to hit the ball from here to there. And for me, the same seems to work flying.

I still sometimes have to think about how to maneuver the a/c, but with each lesson, I realize I'm doing better about simply getting the airplane where I want it. Celebrate your accomplishments, and acknowledge what you need to improve, but don't beat yourself up over it. If you knew what your instructor knows, neither one of you would be there.

One other point about the golf analogy- I don't know if you play, but if you do, you know tension/grip pressure kills your feel of the swing, and I'm learning the same applies here. Two lessons ago, we were doing the drill of flying the approach to the runway, and instead of landing, flying down the runway a few feet off the ground. And of course I had the yoke in a death grip, fighting the plane all the way down the runway. (I told him I thought the indentations my fingers left in the yoke would fade with a little heat. )

After the lesson we talked through why I was so tense, and I think it was because it seemed to me that being that low was just wrong- either land it, or go around, but get me out out of here, 2 feet off the ground! Once I verbalized my perceptions, my instructor convinced me that I wouldn't make a mistake that he couldn't undo, and just to relax and try MY best. And today was much better on the same drill.

Others here have much better advice for you than my long winded answer, but I hope knowing that others are having the same problems is at least a little encouraging. Don't give up!
 
Unless you literally do nothing right(unlikely) an instruntor that just points out flaws is NOT a good instructor. And remaining silent durning a flight with a student? Fire his ass and get a good instructor, see if that helps you
 
When I was in flight school we had an Imbecille instructor who was fired by every student he trained with, he sounds just like the guy you described
 
I always saved the good for last with a student. Critique and end with praise. Send the student home happy and thinking there's still a chance I'll get this.
 
mscard88 said:
I always saved the good for last with a student. Critique and end with praise. Send the student home happy and thinking there's still a chance I'll get this.
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Right, that I understand. But we had a guy, would spend the whole two hours going over all the ways "we could have died up there!" And never said a good word about a single student. All he cared about was logging hours so he could get an airline job. He was an idiot, and both the students that trained with him when I was in flight school fired him, and trained with the guy I flew with. He didn't deserve an airline job as he was definitely responsible for at least one student quitting flying altogether over some pretty minor issues. The reality is, a lot of instructors could give a rats ass less about you learning right, and Just want to log a ton of hours so they can go be an airline captain. Don't tolerate that, give them the boot and learn from someone who cares, they are out there. Best of luck, and don't you dare give up!
 
Jim Case said:
Right, that I understand. But we had a guy, would spend the whole two hours going over all the ways "we could have died up there!" And never said a good word about a single student. All he cared about was logging hours so he could get an airline job. He was an idiot, and both the students that trained with him when I was in flight school fired him, and trained with the guy I flew with. He didn't deserve an airline job as he was definitely responsible for at least one student quitting flying altogether over some pretty minor issues. The reality is, a lot of instructors could give a rats ass less about you learning right, and Just want to log a ton of hours so they can go be an airline captain. Don't tolerate that, give them the boot and learn from someone who cares, they are out there. Best of luck, and don't you dare give up!
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What he said. The first 5 hrs I had an instructor who won't utter a word about theory other than going over preflight and I paid for 1 hr of ground school and 1 hr of flight training even though I was physically at the establishment for less than 2 hrs. Last time after switching to someone who couldn't care less about logging hrs, I actually learnt something and had some good ground school that cleared up a lot of things. Don't quit!!

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WannFly said:
What he said. The first 5 hrs I had an instructor who won't utter a word about theory other than going over preflight and I paid for 1 hr of ground school and 1 hr of flight training even though I was physically at the establishment for less than 2 hrs. Last time after switching to someone who couldn't care less about logging hrs, I actually learnt something and had some good ground school that cleared up a lot of things. Don't quit!!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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:yeahthat:
 
All good advice here.

Is it that you can't hold an attitude, or you're intimidated by the instructor and thus, are overcompensating and can't hold an attitude? Have you tried on a simulator (or someone who has a simulator)? If you can hold a heading and altitude there, you can do it in real life. Using trim properly, as others have suggested, really helps with the workload. Also, pick a point of reference outside the aircraft and maintain its relative position. You're only glancing inside to check the instruments, heading, and make sure the ball is centered (plane is coordinated.) Otherwise keep looking outside.

Oh yeah, the others were right that flying should be fun. Go enjoy it. Fly by looking outside. The skills will come with practice.

I had a great flight instructor, and one thing I learned with him was to call out what I was doing. "Climb out at 65 knots", "200 feet, flaps up", "turning to heading 330"... all these things helps your instructor understand what is going through your head and will help her/him to provide guidance. If you are trying to maintain altitude and deviate, just call it out. "Ooops, descending 100 feet. Climbing and trimming to maintain altitude." Let your instructor know what you're doing to fix the situation.

And if that doesn't work, a new instructor may be in order.

Good luck!
 
rtk11 said:
All good advice here.

Is it that you can't hold an attitude, or you're intimidated by the instructor and thus, are overcompensating and can't hold an attitude? Have you tried on a simulator (or someone who has a simulator)? If you can hold a heading and altitude there, you can do it in real life. Using trim properly, as others have suggested, really helps with the workload. Also, pick a point of reference outside the aircraft and maintain its relative position. You're only glancing inside to check the instruments, heading, and make sure the ball is centered (plane is coordinated.) Otherwise keep looking outside.

Oh yeah, the others were right that flying should be fun. Go enjoy it. Fly by looking outside. The skills will come with practice.

I had a great flight instructor, and one thing I learned with him was to call out what I was doing. "Climb out at 65 knots", "200 feet, flaps up", "turning to heading 330"... all these things helps your instructor understand what is going through your head and will help her/him to provide guidance. If you are trying to maintain altitude and deviate, just call it out. "Ooops, descending 100 feet. Climbing and trimming to maintain altitude." Let your instructor know what you're doing to fix the situation.

And if that doesn't work, a new instructor may be in order.

Good luck!
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The looking outside part helped me immensely. I was fixation on the instruments and was never able to to balance all those jazzy things... when my instructor turned off the PFD, it was lot easier for me at least. It's like when learning to ride a bike, when u look 2 feet ahead of you, you can never get your balance right... looking out and glancing inside for everything green and coordinated should help. I have lot less hours, so take my suggestions with a grain of salt. The other thing my instructor said is, feel the plane, when it needs right rudder, it will tell you, same with pitch... may be feeling it will help

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Gold Seal has a program on the internet or DVD that really helped me with pattern work when I got back to flying after 31 year absence.
 
The trim is your friend.....it's just odd at first because it takes some time to get used to the lag in the 172. I was always over trimming.
 
Jim Case said:
Unless you literally do nothing right(unlikely) an instruntor that just points out flaws is NOT a good instructor. And remaining silent durning a flight with a student? Fire his ass and get a good instructor, see if that helps you
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Depends. I like my instructors critical, as long as it is useful and comes with suggestions on how to fix the problem at hand.

But that's the musician in me. Been doing that for decades. It's efficient.

Now, an instructor who just says "that sucked" and moves on isn't helpful. But neither is one who paints a rosier picture than reality.
 
MAKG1 said:
Depends. I like my instructors critical, as long as it is useful and comes with suggestions on how to fix the problem at hand.

But that's the musician in me. Been doing that for decades. It's efficient.

Now, an instructor who just says "that sucked" and moves on isn't helpful. But neither is one who paints a rosier picture than reality.
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I'm a musician as well. And I agree, I want to know what I did wrong, most people can't handle a overly critical instructor though. I don't think it helps anybody to remain silent as an instructor, in fact I'd say that's straight up dangerous
 
Jim Case said:
I'm a musician as well. And I agree, I want to know what I did wrong, most people can't handle a overly critical instructor though. I don't think it helps anybody to remain silent as an instructor, in fact I'd say that's straight up dangerous
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Not sure it's dangerous, but it sure is useless. Silence is not good.
 
MAKG1 said:
Not sure it's dangerous, but it sure is useless. Silence is not good.
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When u are leaning to fly a plane and he keeps shut about something and doesnt correct you,... may be it is dangerous when his butt is not there up with u

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