From pilot to A/P?

[4RNB]

I'm retired, mid 50's, spent a bunch of money getting stuff done on my plane, often not on my schedule. Finding help has been difficult at times, have had numerous mechanics. I'd hire all of them again, but each has drwabacks. Lack of help, plus a curiosity to learn might propel me to a 2 yr program towards becoming an A/P. School schedule might be manageable, 8-1 five days a week when in session, summers might be 7-1 but Friday off. Maybe 8 weeks off each year. Might be some boredom with review of some material.


Has anyone else late in life pursued this?
Worthwhile?
Thoughts or feedback?
Thanks.

 

[Bell206]

Has anyone else late in life pursued this?

Shortly after I retired at 52, the first 2 people I helped get their A&P test permission slips were older than me. That was 10 years ago. And I have also seen others start down this path later in life. So definitely doable.

Worthwhile?

Only you can answer that.

Thoughts or feedback?

Go for it. Usually the most cost-effective and expedient way to get your A&P with no experience was through a local CC that offered the program. However, last year there was an overhaul of the Part 65 mechanic certificate requirements which as I understand is to allow distance learning abilities. I haven’t followed this change much, but perhaps PM @Tools as he may have the latest. I believe he offers testing studies for those you already have their test authorization tickets (Form FAA 8610-2).

 

[frfly172]

Looks like a plan ,you might want to try the light sport mai course to see how you like it. Either way good luck

 

[4RNB]

Shortly after I retired at 52, the first 2 people I helped get their A&P test permission slips were older than me. That was 10 years ago. And I have also seen others start down this path later in life. So definitely doable.

Only you can answer that.

Go for it. Usually the most cost-effective and expedient way to get your A&P with no experience was through a local CC that offered the program. However, last year there was an overhaul of the Part 65 mechanic certificate requirements which as I understand is to allow distance learning abilities. I haven’t followed this change much, but perhaps PM @Tools as he may have the latest. I believe he offers testing studies for those you already have their test authorization tickets (Form FAA 8610-2).

Thanks. I visited a CC, the closest chance to study, nearly an hour away. They spoke about how the program might change to more of a hybrid nature.

 

[4RNB]

Looks like a plan ,you might want to try the light sport mai course to see how you like it. Either way good luck

I thought this was wrong topic until I searched, thanks

 

[Rob58]

I'm retired, mid 50's, spent a bunch of money getting stuff done on my plane, often not on my schedule. Finding help has been difficult at times, have had numerous mechanics. I'd hire all of them again, but each has drwabacks. Lack of help, plus a curiosity to learn might propel me to a 2 yr program towards becoming an A/P. School schedule might be manageable, 8-1 five days a week when in session, summers might be 7-1 but Friday off. Maybe 8 weeks off each year. Might be some boredom with review of some material.


Has anyone else late in life pursued this?
Worthwhile?
Thoughts or feedback?
Thanks.

First of all, let’s not consider mid-50s “late in life”. I’d really like to have those 15 years back, but I live by the attitude that there is still a lot of future to live for. I’ve been wrenching on airplanes for 50 years and do not have an A&P ticket. Until recently this was never a problem. There were always helpful folks with tickets available to look over my shoulder. In the process I learned a lot and received an incredible education from them. However today there are fewer and fewer experienced aircraft mechanics available and I am now trying to figure out how to go after the credentials just as you are thinking about. I estimate that I have 4000+ hours working on a dozen of the aircraft that I have owned over the years. I’m hoping that someone at the FAA will give me credit for all of my hands-on experience and let me go through the formal testing process. At your youthful age you have options and definitely worthwhile!

 

[Oldmanb777]

If you have an interest in doing it, go for it. What you will be exposed too will be of value in many other things you might do. If you like to build things and tinker with mechanical stuff, it's some of the best training you will ever do. So go for it!

 

[Vincent Haynes]

I'm glad to read this thread. I did exactly this. I completed my A&P 2022. I just turned 50 at the time. It has saved me a lot of money. I use the folks as Savvy to questions if needed.

 

[hindsight2020]

I'm going EAB, I don't have the time to pursue that [AP] ticket, nor build an airplane, but I love I can wrench on it to my heart's content. I like the LSRM/LSRI training scheme, and would love to pursue it if it gave me inspection authority over my preferred forever airplane (current LSA performance limits doesn't meet my needs). It's a shame they won't allow LSRM equivalent training to gain inspection authority over an EAB, but it's not a show stopper for me at this juncture.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I estimate that I have 4000+ hours working on a dozen of the aircraft that I have owned over the years. I’m hoping that someone at the FAA will give me credit for all of my hands-on experience and let me go through the formal testing process.

Not going to happen unless you have that experience documented and signed by the overseeing A&P's.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

My FSDO is signing folks off to test for the A&P. My hangar neighbor got an unsolicited offer by the manager to test. He was there to take care of some registration paperwork for an RV10 he just built.

Contrary to Doc‘s office….some inspectors have become more accommodating.

My hangar neighbor was at the Baltimore FSDO a few months ago getting paper work straightened out on his newly built RV-10. This is his third build. The office manager happened to walk by and over hearing the conversation with the PMI he was chatting with. He asked if he had any interest in getting his A&P.....and sure was the answer, but I don't meet the requirements. He had pictures of his work of the previous build on his iPad....and showed those.

The manager assured him he "did" meet the requirements....and on the spot he was given the signed forms to take the written exam for General, Airframe, and Powerplant. In a few months he will be going to Bakers to complete the practicles and get his tickets.

So....things are changing. I've never heard of this unsolicited opportunity, but good news.

 

[Doc Holliday]

My office? My workplace cruises at FL410 and .80m. Not sure what it has to do with being an A&P.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

My office? My workplace cruises at FL410 and .80m. Not sure what it has to do with being an A&P.

See there. Your office wouldn’t do it. lol

 

[mondtster]

Not going to happen unless you have that experience documented and signed by the overseeing A&P's.

I agree for the most part, but I have seen a couple of guys get endorsed in the last 2-3 years that have had little or no documentation substantiating their experience, so as usual it seems to depend on who you ask and how the case is presented. If I were Rob I wouldn't give up hope without at least trying.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I agree for the most part, but I have seen a couple of guys get endorsed in the last 2-3 years that have had little or no documentation substantiating their experience, so as usual it seems to depend on who you ask and how the case is presented. If I were Rob I wouldn't give up hope without at least trying.

Yep, all we need now is for the FAA to start doing A&P certificates like the way they revamped the IA test and requirements.

 

[mondtster]

Yep, all we need now is for the FAA to start doing A&P certificates like the way they revamped the IA test and requirements.

Unfortunately, in one of the cases I mentioned that's basically what they basically did. I'm not happy about their decision, but I had no say in the matter either.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

They have the discretion to basically do what they want.

 

[Doc Holliday]

They have the discretion to basically do what they want.

Uh, no.

But you don’t understand how it actually works, so there’s that.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Uh, no.

But you don’t understand how it actually works, so there’s that.

Can you tell me about any time you know of that an FAA inspector was held to task and had their decision reversed because it was non compliant with guidance? I would like this response to be kept within the scope of an individual that is interacting with the agency. Not a corporation.

I kinda thinking based on what I’ve seen so far in my career they can pretty much do whatever they want. As long as the paperwork looks good…

I would like to hear why you think it’s different?

 

[Doc Holliday]

Can you tell me about any time you know of that an FAA inspector was held to task and had their decision reversed because it was non compliant with guidance? I would like this response to be kept within the scope of an individual that is interacting with the agency. Not a corporation.

I kinda thinking based on what I’ve seen so far in my career they can pretty much do whatever they want. As long as the paperwork looks good…

I would like to hear why you think it’s different?

Start with FAA Order 8900.1, Vol 1. From there go to the applicable guidance for approving an applicant for an A&P, plus the applicable CFR's.

Inspectors must stay within the scope of their employment, which means remaining within all applicable orders. They cannot just decide "Oh what the heck!" and perform a certification function outside of the guidance.

I could expand more, but I'm on a two day trip in my "office" leaving in a few minutes.

 

[Randomskylane]

AOPA has a podcast called ask the a and p or something. Anyway, it’s Mike bush and two others with a format similar to the old car talk on npr

This topic came up in the last month or two so it might be worth a listen. Documenting past work, taking the exams, etc.

Fwiw

 

[ateamer]

I'm going EAB, I don't have the time to pursue that [AP] ticket, nor build an airplane, but I love I can wrench on it to my heart's content. I like the LSRM/LSRI training scheme, and would love to pursue it if it gave me inspection authority over my preferred forever airplane (current LSA performance limits doesn't meet my needs). It's a shame they won't allow LSRM equivalent training to gain inspection authority over an EAB, but it's not a show stopper for me at this juncture.

It makes no sense at this point why EAB is not included in LSR-I.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Start with FAA Order 8900.1, Vol 1. From there go to the applicable guidance for approving an applicant for an A&P, plus the applicable CFR's.

Inspectors must stay within the scope of their employment, which means remaining within all applicable orders. They cannot just decide "Oh what the heck!" and perform a certification function outside of the guidance.

I could expand more, but I'm on a two day trip in my "office" leaving in a few minutes.

Yeah I’m on a trip as well so I also have limited time. I know all about the 8900. I held two operating certificates for a business that I started. Also have held letters of designation for some roles at 121 carriers. Just because there are rules does not mean it’s easy to hold an inspector accountable. Every fsdo is like its own little mini FAA. If the local manger doesn’t want to take action. You’re pretty well f’ed. I’ve seen it happen.

As I said. Please share some experience where you or someone you know has been able to, as an individual, hold an inspector accountable. I’m sure it’s happened but based on my anecdotal experiences it goes the other way more often.

To me what you are saying is equivalent to telling me no one speeds on the interstate because there are speed limits.

 

[Magman]

My belief is that anyone that gets involved in aviation maintenance of any

sort should log ALL of the time involved. This includes technical research ,

ordering parts and diagnosis etc. that an A & P would normally do.

Let the Fed Folks determine what can be used if you decide to move

forward. There are those that believe a Log is unnecessary and a letter

from an A & P will suffice. Generally that is not the case.

“ Satisfactory to the Administrator “ is more appropriate IMHO and may not

require a A & P signature. Pictures, DD-214’s , Training Classes MIGHT

also be used. Don’t be your own enemy. Let them sort it out.


btw I’m currently assembling the packet for the Charles Taylor Award for

someone the qualified for certification via experience. This Award is named

after the first Aircraft Mechanic and requires 50 years of work experience.

Certification led to involvement with 150 ‘s, Mooneys, Pawnees,

F-22 , F-35 and even the Space Shuttle. It does open doors!

 

[Bell206]

FAA inspector was held to task and had their decision reversed because it was non compliant with guidance?

Reversing ASI actions does happen, but it usually gets resolved in the initial informal stages within the FSDO or at the regional levels before it hits the formal process. I don’t know if the FSDO or regional records of those actions are in the public domain, but the final reports of the formal ones are in the public domain under the DOT/FAA and the NTSB. There are also appeal databases as well. I've only experienced the maintenance side of this process, but usually at the informal end the FAA ASI has the burden to prove what is at fault which tends to cause the reverse in some cases. Once you get to the formal levels of the enforcements both sides are usually committed to their stance.

However, there are still cases that the FAA gets reversed. One was a helicopter operator in TX who had all the required permits to perform the 133 work but a couple local ASIs shut them down on a "technicality." Long story short, the operator prevailed and finished the job. The ironic thing was the operator was sued by the ASIs as an individuals to collect on damages he incurred while performing his job as an ASI.

 

[Silvaire]

When I got my authorization, which was long ago when you just walked into the FSDO, no appointment, no bulletproof glass, you just walked in and saw an agent. The guy I got didn't want to sign me off for the powerplant so okay, I'll take what I can get. Afterwards we were standing outside by the entrance smoking cigarettes (like people used to do) and this other agent whom I had met at my shop a week or so earlier and had a casual conversation with about cars walked past and said "hi" to me. So the agent I had been dealing with asked him "You know this guy?" to which he replied "yea" He then looks at me and says "give me that paper" and signed me off for the powerplant test.

I think it was known as a good ol' boy's network but of course nowadays it's probably different.

 

[4RNB]

Today I applied for AP school!

An IA I know suggested he only worked on his own airplane for three years before becoming an IA. Anyone else do this?

 

[mondtster]

An IA I know suggested he only worked on his own airplane for three years before becoming an IA. Anyone else do this?

I'm curious, what was his reasoning for the personal limitation?

I didn't limit myself like that but I was also working on a lot of the same aircraft before I had a mechanic certificate at all.

 

[GeorgeC]

Today I applied for AP school!

Amen brother. I hope to do the same when I hit 50.

 

[Ed Haywood]

I looked into schools, but am probably going the experience route. I have pretty much an ideal opportunity, with a close friend who has a vintage aircraft restoration facility. Just can't find the time because my business has grown. Goal is to get it done in the next few years so I can spend my retirement messing around with Warbirds.

 

[4RNB]

I'm curious, what was his reasoning for the personal limitation?

I didn't limit myself like that but I was also working on a lot of the same aircraft before I had a mechanic certificate at all.

I do not know the reason. I suspect it was just his life circumstances, perhaps he already had a job as an engineer.

I posted this as it is what would be most appealing to me, to work on just my plane, or irregularly for others, and then test so I can sign off my own annuals. Another IA thought the work on your own plane experience would not be enough to get approval.

I would work for others some, but the environment would be most important. Life is such that I am no longer willing to eat crow.

 

[Fracpilot]

I'm retired, mid 50's, spent a bunch of money getting stuff done on my plane, often not on my schedule. Finding help has been difficult at times, have had numerous mechanics. I'd hire all of them again, but each has drwabacks. Lack of help, plus a curiosity to learn might propel me to a 2 yr program towards becoming an A/P. School schedule might be manageable, 8-1 five days a week when in session, summers might be 7-1 but Friday off. Maybe 8 weeks off each year. Might be some boredom with review of some material.


Has anyone else late in life pursued this?
Worthwhile?
Thoughts or feedback?
Thanks.

As an A&P, I think that you’ll benefit most from working for a busy shop that’s willing to take you on and give you the 30 months of experience and then sign your 8610. I’m just not impressed with the products coming out of a two-year long school versus two years of actual experience.

 

[Bell206]

I posted this as it is what would be most appealing to me, to work on just my plane, or irregularly for others, and then test so I can sign off my own annuals. Another IA thought the work on your own plane experience would not be enough to get approval.

Its really up to you what aircraft you want to work on. Some stick to their own aircraft, or a limited number in a tight group, simply because they don't want to obtain insurance to work other "outside" aircraft. So long as you remain "actively engaged" in 2 of the 3 years prior to applying for your IA they will give your authorization to take the IA test. While I'm not a fan of the multiple choice test for an IA, you should still take the time to learn what it really requires to be a good IA and the responsibilities that go along with it. Its more than just a signature on an annual inspection.

I think that you’ll benefit most from working for a busy shop that’s willing to take you on and give you the 30 months of experience and then sign your 8610. I’m just not impressed with the products coming out of a two-year long school versus two years of actual experience.

Agree in part. But most do not have the ability or opportunity to work in a shop, so school is their only option. I have always believed its the person who makes the certificate and not the reverse. Even if they have prior experience. However, the main difference I've noted of people coming out of A&P schools now vs the past years is more work ethic related than aviation skill related. There are still some that shine however there seem to be more that are there for the wrong reasons. Couple that with the reduced interest in being an A&P and it becomes even more obvious.