Foreign Customs, Culture, and Courtesies?

overdrive148

overdrive148

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overdrive148
Haven't seen a thread like this one so I figured why not (in a hotel for a good number of hours anyway).

In Turkey on business for about a month, so far I've heard don't point at anyone, don't show the soles of your feet towards anyone, and don't do an enthusiastic double thumbs up towards anyone. I've heard in Japan or China, direct eye contact is discouraged due to dominance or something along those lines.

Any of you travelers have any you've learned along the way?

I had no idea there was a such thing as a SAT - "Stupid American Tax". The front desk hotel personnel became pretty poor at English when we went to check out, especially on the part why our bill was much more expensive than the copy we had when we reserved. I don't travel overseas often at all.
 
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overdrive148 said:
Haven't seen a thread like this one so I figured why not (in a hotel for a good number of hours anyway).

In Turkey on business for about a month, so far I've heard don't point at anyone, don't show the soles of your feet towards anyone, and don't do an enthusiastic double thumbs up towards anyone. I've heard in Japan or China, direct eye contact is discouraged due to dominance or something along those lines.

Any of you travelers have any you've learned along the way?

I had no idea there was a such thing as a SAT - "Stupid American Tax". The front desk hotel personnel became pretty poor at English when we went to check out, especially on the part why our bill was much more expensive than the copy we had when we reserved. I don't travel overseas often at all.
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Smile a lot, try your best to understand and communicate, with general courtesy you will be forgiven most any faux paux.
 
It's all about respect. Respect their cultures, customs, traditions, etc and you will be fine.
 
We had some folks travel to Japan and the swapping business cards proceess is ...well... a process.

They said it is deemed offensive to take their card and stick it in your wallet. There was a bunch of stuff like that. And either there or china, there were a ton of cultural things that we would mess up

I think it was China but eating everything on your plate was a sign that you wanted them to bring you more.

There is a lot of: it is normal for the other guy to use his chopsticks which he has had in his mouth to take food off his plate and give to you to try. :yikes:
 
jordane93 said:
It's all about respect. Respect their cultures, customs, traditions, etc and you will be fine.
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That's actually the tricky part, learning and understanding all of that to respect, sometimes things are not so obvious, especially in Asia. The good thing is, in general people are friendly and forgiving in nature. Best way I have always found is make a local friend who can guide you through them. In my industry it's pretty easy, I usually hire a local or two for my crew or as day workers if I won't be there long.
 
So now I wonder if at the Japanese office they were like "We have Americans coming over don't be surprised if they take your card and treat it like a card and not a baby kitten. They really only see these things as a means to call you later"
 
Been reading up on some of the traveler scams that happen in Istanbul as well, while I'm on the topic. Apparently, some scammers will come up to you, asking you to go to a bar with them. After a few drinks, you get a bill for 1000+ euro and a couple bouncers who either take your money or kindly walk you to the nearest ATM and take all the money you can withdraw.

Another one seems to be with purchasing pretty much anything - shoe shines are the most common. 20 lira for a shine? I forgot to mention that's per shoe! If you don't even ask it's worse, and I never really thought about that either. Carpet for 500? Whoops, that's in euros!

And yet another that seems less likely but still happens is being offered a stick of gum or something and getting drugged. That and pickpocketing.
 
Most people overseas are courteous to outsiders, especially if the outsider is obviously also trying to be courteous. Occasionally you'll meet the "stick up their butt" people.

I've travelled a lot internationally for someone of my age. I've filled up at least one passport.

The Caribbean tends to be more disrespectful to the cruise ship tourist. You can often identify these wild animals by their id wrist tag and flock like grouping.

French will respect you more if you attempt to speak French. At the very least you should know hello, goodbye, and thank you.

At no time should you wear anything with American symbols. It's for one disrespectful and two it might be downright dangerous in some areas. Trust me the locals will all ready know your American.

Like any location, the locals outside of high tourist areas are more often then not courteous to tourists. Plus prices at food carts, shops, and restaurants are remarkably cheaper, as they don't have the idiot tourist markup.
 
Henning said:
Best way I have always found is make a local friend who can guide you through them.
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My parents have become friends with some of the locals on the Caribbean island that we frequent.

I've also made some friends on a neighboring island that give me "local" pricing on diving. Plus it helps that I've used their company for 10 years.

I have a friend, my old instrument instructor, in France that I'll call up if I'm in his region.

So, like you said it helps to know the locals!
 
Henning said:
That's actually the tricky part, learning and understanding all of that to respect, sometimes things are not so obvious, especially in Asia. The good thing is, in general people are friendly and forgiving in nature. Best way I have always found is make a local friend who can guide you through them. In my industry it's pretty easy, I usually hire a local or two for my crew or as day workers if I won't be there long.
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Agreed. Usually I'll read up on etiquette beforehand if I'm traveling abroad so I have some sort of understanding.
 
I have heard that tipping is an American thing and most restaurants, bars you visit outside the U.S. are not to used to / expecting tips.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I have heard that tipping is an American thing and most restaurants, bars you visit outside the U.S. are not to used to / expecting tips.
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Unless they are frequented by Americans. In which case they accuse the Aussies and Brits of being cheapskates.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I have heard that tipping is an American thing and most restaurants, bars you visit outside the U.S. are not to used to / expecting tips.
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Pretty much. Except when I went to Egypt with my family they expected a tip for everything. My dad was asking for directions and the guy sticks his hand out expecting a tip.
 
I think I gained a Luxembourg wife when I left a decent tip the first day I was in town. The waitress's mom owned the place and had to have a chat with me. We had a decent conversation, she wanted to work on her English and I wanted to learn more about the town and basic cultural differences. She did give me the details on tipping - servers are paid a full wage, and don't expect tips. There is a server tax built in to the bill. Most locals will just round up the bill to a nice even number, even if it's just a Euro or two, and call it good.

Another trip was to Scotland. I was eating dinner with an ex-pat and asked her about tipping. I mentioned that I didn't see anybody else tip, but I felt bad if I didn't. She said, "Look around you, people here don't tip because they can't afford to. Income taxes are so high they don't have much left for anything else. I bet your waiters and waitresses treat you well, don't they?" Yes, they did.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I have heard that tipping is an American thing and most restaurants, bars you visit outside the U.S. are not to used to / expecting tips.
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Tipping is now more universal, however most places it's much smaller because wait staff gets a real paycheck.
 
jordane93 said:
Pretty much. Except when I went to Egypt with my family they expected a tip for everything. My dad was asking for directions and the guy sticks his hand out expecting a tip.
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In Jakarta which is a city the size of the entire SoCal basin with a total of about 25 traffic lights an traffic so dense that my crew from Mumbai said "Damn this is the worst traffic I've ever seen." They have people who populate intersections, and for a coin that is worth about .1¢ they block for you to get through. It actually works rather efficiently, turns a 4 hour intersection (seriously, it used to take 4 hrs in a box vehicle be it car or truck to make it the 1/2 km out of the port and to the main boulevard, that's why I rode a scooter everywhere and just had anything I couldn't carry delivered for $5) into a 1 hr intersection.
 
ARFlyer said:
French will respect you more if you attempt to speak French. At the very least you should know hello, goodbye, and thank you.
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I speak "lower-intermediate-level" German and Italian. One of my favorite aspects of travel is conversing in the local language, especially with those who speak no English. Most locals -- outside the tourist zones -- appreciate at least that the effort is being made to communicate in their language (instead of just yelling louder in English, as many tourists do). I took it as a compliment a couple of months ago when a young German said that my German pronunciation sounded more like it had a Dutch accent than an English accent.

It's different in the touristed cities. I walk up to a counter and the clerk says, in perfect English, "May I help you?" (what, do I have the word "tourist" tattooed to my forehead?). Or if I try to weave a few words together into a coherent sentence in the local language, the clerk says, "Look, dude, I really don't have time for this ..." :redface:

Last year in Assisi I waved off an old Gypsy woman who was hitting up the tourists for money. As she stormed off I heard her mutter in Italian, "Cattivo francese ... " [loosely, 'damn Frenchman'] OK, I'll cop to the 'cattivo' part; but if she calls me 'francese' one more time I'll get mad. ;)
 
I had always heard stories about how rude the French are, but when my wife and I spent a week in Paris (dead broke, flew on passes, stayed at a friend's apartment), we encountered a whole bunch of very nice folks. Maybe the rude ones were on vacation?
 
SCCutler said:
I had always heard stories about how rude the French are, but when my wife and I spent a week in Paris (dead broke, flew on passes, stayed at a friend's apartment), we encountered a whole bunch of very nice folks. Maybe the rude ones were on vacation?
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if we boil your statement down to "maybe the French were on holiday" that is a pretty safe bet

good flying there, lots of uncontrolled airspace and rural airstrips. As long as you don't want to conduct business or manufacture anything, it's a great place
 
SCCutler said:
I had always heard stories about how rude the French are, but when my wife and I spent a week in Paris (dead broke, flew on passes, stayed at a friend's apartment), we encountered a whole bunch of very nice folks. Maybe the rude ones were on vacation?
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The only rude locals I've encountered in most foreign countries have been on the receiving end of rude tourists. Seriously, if you are just polite, remember "when in Rome", and have a couple of basic phrases handy things go much smoother.

Britain not included, of course, since being an ar**hole is an art form for Englishmen. Good mates, but every one I've ever met has been a prick.
 
overdrive148 said:
Been reading up on some of the traveler scams that happen in Istanbul as well, while I'm on the topic. Apparently, some scammers will come up to you, asking you to go to a bar with them. After a few drinks, you get a bill for 1000+ euro and a couple bouncers who either take your money or kindly walk you to the nearest ATM and take all the money you can withdraw.
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Sounds like a strip bar. (Not that I'd know ;) )
Another one seems to be with purchasing pretty much anything - shoe shines are the most common. 20 lira for a shine? I forgot to mention that's per shoe! If you don't even ask it's worse, and I never really thought about that either. Carpet for 500? Whoops, that's in euros!
.
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Sounds like Napoli.

SCCutler said:
I had always heard stories about how rude the French are, but when my wife and I spent a week in Paris (dead broke, flew on passes, stayed at a friend's apartment), we encountered a whole bunch of very nice folks. Maybe the rude ones were on vacation?
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I have almost always found Parisians to be nice and gracious, provided you act accordingly. Come in and act like an entitled American and you will be met with rudeness. I have found SOME New Yorkers to be ruder than most Parisians.

My best rule to to do more listening and observing than talking, and try to fit is as best possible. In France, a few words will go a long way. And don't worry, folks outside of Paris have a certain contempt for Parisians, too.... I recall going to a rustic hotel in the countryside & missing the 'do not enter sign'.... I parked in a spot, and the hotel keeper said to leave the car there - "people will see the Parisian license plate and just think it is driven by a pushy Paris resident".

One thing to look out for is the Dynamic Currency Conversion scam. You are charged in US dollars and pay both the normal exchange fee, whatever your car provider charges as a transaction fee, PLUS an additional exchange fee charged by a third party company contracted by the foreign card processor. That fee (up to 3%) is split with the merchant. You are supposed to be able to opt-out, but in practice that option is not given or is hidden (and most hotel desk clerks don't understand). Insist that charges be made in local currency, and consider using AmEx, who doesn't allow that charge.
 
I've been around, more than a couple of times. So - there are traditions and some cultures in other countries. Guess what - we've got some traditions in the US too. I don't want to go political or anything but how about a little respect when others get to this country?
 
docmirror said:
I've been around, more than a couple of times. So - there are traditions and some cultures in other countries. Guess what - we've got some traditions in the US too. I don't want to go political or anything but how about a little respect when others get to this country?
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I have seen exceedingly rude behavior toward foreigners by a few US Customs folks at one airport. As well as the rudeness extended by some US citizens in some cities.
 
wsuffa said:
I have seen exceedingly rude behavior toward foreigners by a few US Customs folks at one airport. As well as the rudeness extended by some US citizens in some cities.
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I've seen it to. I've also been on the receiving end of some rude behavior in several countries. Even though I was doing my level best to follow customs. Being able to speak marginal Spanish, and understand quite a bit more, I've heard the comments directed my way that were less than complimentary.

Not sure what your point is? Are we all to be considered the 'ugly American'?
 
wsuffa said:
I have seen exceedingly rude behavior toward foreigners by a few US Customs folks at one airport.
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I've gone through the gauntlet of US Customs and Immigation at various airports, and come away with a profound sense of shame that this should be a foreign visitor's first encounter with my country. :frown2:
 
In middle eastern countries if you hand something to someone (i.e. passport), you should always hand it to them with your right hand. The left hand is considered unhygienic. I always found this humorous, since my right hand is probably less hygienic than my left by their definitions, but customs are customs.
 
docmirror said:
I've seen it to. I've also been on the receiving end of some rude behavior in several countries. Even though I was doing my level best to follow customs. Being able to speak marginal Spanish, and understand quite a bit more, I've heard the comments directed my way that were less than complimentary.

Not sure what your point is? Are we all to be considered the 'ugly American'?
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No, but some are. Just pointing out that we are not exactly welcoming as a country. Admittedly, most have no issue, but there was no excuse for what I witnessed.
 
SCCutler said:
I had always heard stories about how rude the French are, but when my wife and I spent a week in Paris (dead broke, flew on passes, stayed at a friend's apartment), we encountered a whole bunch of very nice folks. Maybe the rude ones were on vacation?
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Yeah, I never figured that out, whenever I'm in France I never have any issues. French Canada OTOH lol, it's been pretty funny there. Even the French in France give them hell. In France I never get crap for my crappy minimal French, but I have watched the same people act like they can't understand the people from Quebec.:lol:
 
AvionicsTech said:
In middle eastern countries if you hand something to someone (i.e. passport), you should always hand it to them with your right hand. The left hand is considered unhygienic. I always found this humorous, since my right hand is probably less hygienic than my left by their definitions, but customs are customs.
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That might explain why the customs guy in Istanbul looked at me with such distaste. He stamped my passport pretty hard too and just gave me the same look the entire time. :dunno:
 
Matthew said:
Another trip was to Scotland. I was eating dinner with an ex-pat and asked her about tipping. I mentioned that I didn't see anybody else tip, but I felt bad if I didn't. She said, "Look around you, people here don't tip because they can't afford to. Income taxes are so high they don't have much left for anything else. I bet your waiters and waitresses treat you well, don't they?" Yes, they did.
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I was born and raised in Scotland...yes the 40% income tax sucks, but in reality we are all just tight with our money:D Tipping is pretty rare except in the more high end places where it is expected.
 
I've always thought that this would be a good subject for a book for people doing business internationally. I see two essential areas, customs and values.

Customs are things like when walking with a lady, which side do you walk on. In america, on the side toward the curb so you absorb the splash. In Germany, she is to always be on your right side. Most people are right handed so their sword hung on the left side. Who enters the restaurant first, you or the lady? Here you hold the door open for her to go in. There, you go in ahead of her to make sure that it is safe. Customs are also things like the sign language at the table with tableware in Germany to tell the waiter what the next step is. Also, in Germany a bouquet always has an odd number of blooms. Don't give a lady a dozen roses.

Values are more how important particular traits are in a culture. On a scale of one to ten, what is the value of face in China compared to in America, or the value of quality of life or of life itself ?

Courtesy and respect go a long way. Having made any effort to learn and use a language get you unbelievable brownie points and people will quickly shift to English when they see that you are not proficient.

I found Parisians surprisingly helpful as long you didn't expect help. If you are trying to be self sufficient, you will get all the help you need.
 
Henning said:
In Jakarta which is a city the size of the entire SoCal basin with a total of about 25 traffic lights an traffic so dense that my crew from Mumbai said "Damn this is the worst traffic I've ever seen." They have people who populate intersections, and for a coin that is worth about .1¢ they block for you to get through. It actually works rather efficiently, turns a 4 hour intersection (seriously, it used to take 4 hrs in a box vehicle be it car or truck to make it the 1/2 km out of the port and to the main boulevard, that's why I rode a scooter everywhere and just had anything I couldn't carry delivered for $5) into a 1 hr intersection.
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4 hours to go 1300 feet..:dunno::confused:....

You are kiddin.. Right :dunno:
 
N801BH said:
4 hours to go 1300 feet..:dunno::confused:....

You are kiddin.. Right :dunno:
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I wish I was. You could sit there and look at the overpass over the intersection the whole time. It took 3 minutes on a scooter, 4 hrs in a car.
 
There are a lot of books and information about this. An oldie but goodie I really like is "Kiss, Bow, or Shake Hands."

It now appears to also be a website run by McGraw-Hill: http://kissbowshakehands.com/index.html

I have zero affiliation but did find the book useful when living in NYC and doing a lot of business with the Japanese in the early 1990s.
 
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