ForeFlight's new Trip Assistant

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
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iMooniac
Hey all,

Just wanted to point out a cool new thing that was just released by ForeFlight.

Caveat: This is only on the Web version, and only works for Performance profiles, which require the Performance Plus subscription. I'm hoping that eventually it'll make it to the app and to the other subscription types, but it makes the most sense with the hyper-accurate flight times provided by the Performance profiles.

Basically, it lets you enter street addresses for your actual origin and destination (not the airports), choose an appropriate nearby airport, and calculate a total trip time as well as when you should depart if you have a time you'd like to arrive.

You start by putting in street addresses and choosing the airports you want and how long you'll be at each, and the time you'd like to get to your destination:

Screen Shot 2018-06-09 at 2.11.17 PM.png

Showing runway length, fuel prices, and approaches like this makes it handy to choose an airport. When you've made your choices, hit Calculate, and you get the itinerary:

Screen Shot 2018-06-09 at 2.11.57 PM.png

Pretty cool, especially since there's no other site any more that I'm aware of where you can punch in a street address and get nearby airports. I'm pretty sure @Ted DuPuis was missing this feature of one of the sites that got sued out of existence a few years ago.
 
BTW: Yes, I know the Performance subscription is expensive ($399/yr). It makes sense mostly for those who have things that whine, be they attached to fans, propellers, or piston engines, as those are the ones who will benefit most from the detailed calculations for climb, cruise, and descent times and fuel burns at a wide variety of altitudes. But this is version 1.0, and ForeFlight has always released features to the more expensive version(s) first, as that's what helps pay for their development. So, hopefully this will work its way down to the Pro level, provided they decide the basic performance profiles (with single climb, cruise, and descent profiles) are accurate enough to make it worthwhile. I also hope it makes it into the iOS app, even if it is pretty much strictly a preflight planning tool.
 
So that’s why the new slow search bar gives me strip clubs in the results when I mistype an intersection name. LOL.

Not worth it in either the Pro Performance or even if it trickled down into Pro for the slowness it brought to the search bar, which is a tool I sometimes need IN FLIGHT not to be slow.
 
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Initial reaction....don't see much of a point to this. Second reaction, granite falls NC as the destination...ok, I see you
 
TRocket said:
Initial reaction....don't see much of a point to this. Second reaction, granite falls NC as the destination...ok, I see you
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It definitely helps in choosing airports convenient to your actual destination. That feature has been sorely lacking for a long time. I forget who it was that used to have it, but it was one of the plan-on-the-web tools that got sued out of existence by the-tool-that-shall-remain-unnamed.
 
TRocket said:
Initial reaction....don't see much of a point to this. Second reaction, granite falls NC as the destination...ok, I see you
Click to expand...

This is EXACTLY the kind of tool my wife has been wanting for her job, which includes managing the travel itineraries for corporate staff on their company jet. She often has to figure out how long they’ll need to get to the airport after a site visit, then how much time they’ll need to get to the next site visit. It’s a time consuming process for her.

So it’s perfect for that segment of the market.
 
denverpilot said:
So that’s why the new slow search bar gives me strip clubs in the results when I mistype an intersection name. LOL.

Not worth it in either the Pro Performance or even if it trickled down into Pro for the slowness it brought to the search bar, which is a tool I sometimes need IN FLIGHT not to be slow.
Click to expand...

If FF gives strip club locations that is certainly a feature worth paying a 40% premium for. LOL.
 
Clip4 said:
If FF gives strip club locations that is certainly a feature worth paying a 40% premium for. LOL.
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Amateur ....... a real man can sniff them out quicker, even without a Yelp account.
 
LDJones said:
This is EXACTLY the kind of tool my wife has been wanting for her job, which includes managing the travel itineraries for corporate staff on their company jet. She often has to figure out how long they’ll need to get to the airport after a site visit, then how much time they’ll need to get to the next site visit. It’s a time consuming process for her.

So it’s perfect for that segment of the market.
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She may be automated out of a job.
 
Now this tool would come in real handy for some of our work flights, being able to get a very accurate ETA in seconds, but damn they want another hundred plus bucks from me for this?

I already have foreflight pro SV, US and Canada, they charge a ton for the app and they need to nickel and dime me even more? This really should have been included in the pro, I'm not impressed with the attempted up sell.
 
PPC1052 said:
She may be automated out of a job.
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Only if the automation can collect all the data from the various departments, then create three-ring binder “Trip Books”for all the execs on the trip! The raw travel time number crunching is a tiny, but time consuming portion of her job.
 
James331 said:
Now this tool would come in real handy for some of our work flights, being able to get a very accurate ETA in seconds, but damn they want another hundred plus bucks from me for this?

I already have foreflight pro SV, US and Canada, they charge a ton for the app and they need to nickel and dime me even more? This really should have been included in the pro, I'm not impressed with the attempted up sell.
Click to expand...

If that $100 is an issue I suspect you’re not their target market for that feature. Those spending $100K a month operating a corporate jet spend more on lavatory service every trip.
 
Unit74 said:
Amateur ....... a real man can sniff them out quicker, even without a Yelp account.
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If you’re using your nose to find them, that’s a little scary. :)

LDJones said:
If that $100 is an issue I suspect you’re not their target market for that feature. Those spending $100K a month operating a corporate jet spend more on lavatory service every trip.
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This could be in the “amortizing poo” thread. Amortizing rich people’s poo. LOL.
 
LDJones said:
If that $100 is an issue I suspect you’re not their target market for that feature. Those spending $100K a month operating a corporate jet spend more on lavatory service every trip.
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If I gave $100 to every person with their hand out I wouldn't have even been able to get my PPL, no one would.

But that's not the point, it's not being able to afford $100 bucks, heck I blow that between shooting and craft beer over a wheekend lol!

It's the getting nickeled and dimed that bothers me.


Heck fltplan will locate the closet airport to a zip for free, google will tell me traffic for free, fltplan also has a FREE efb that does much of what foreflight does, fltplan has had a VERY ACCURATE planning tool for quite some time that does a better job at fuel burns and time numbers and it's free, there are log book apps that do a better job than foreflight too which range in price from free to not much, it's software in a market where there is a good amount of competition and foreflight is the most expensive option by a good margin, it would be nice if they just tried to add value for their existing customers vs trying to squeeze them for "just another hundred" hundred at every turn


And playing the elitist card is not historically a good idea.


I'm a foreflight customer, I have been one for years and at one of their higher price points, why on earth would you want to alienate me from the brand?
 
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James331 said:
If I gave $100 to every person with their hand out I wouldn't have even been able to get my PPL, no one would.

But that's not the point, it's not being able to afford $100 bucks, heck I blow that between shooting and craft beer over a wheekend lol!

It's the getting nickeled and dimed that bothers me.


Heck fltplan will locate the closet airport to a zip for free, google will tell me traffic for free, fltplan also has a FREE efb that does much of what foreflight does, fltplan has had a VERY ACCURATE planning tool for quite some time that does a better job at fuel burns and time numbers and it's free, there are log book apps that do a better job than foreflight too which range in price from free to not much, it's software in a market where there is a good amount of competition and foreflight is the most expensive option by a good margin, it would be nice if they just tried to add value for their existing customers vs trying to squeeze them for "just another hundred" hundred at every turn


And playing the elitist card is not historically a good idea.


I'm a foreflight customer, I have been one for years and at one of their higher price points, why on earth would you want to alienate me from the brand?
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Just to be clear, I have no relationship with ForeFlight other than being a satisfied customer for seven or so years now. I don't begrudge them trying to maximize their return on their development investment. All I'm saying is the $400 top of the line subscription is literally pennies for those that need those high-end features. Personally, I don't, but am happy it's an option for those who do. I used to spend more than that just to have Jepp approach charts. All the EFB products are a true godsend to aviators.
 
I agree with James. It was great at $100 when I first bought in. Came out with some really cool stuff for $200? Okay, I'm still in. Double that and nope, not for me but somehow, if those who fly things that makes $400 sound like pennies, then maybe they have something better than Foreflight.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I agree with James. It was great at $100 when I first bought in. Came out with some really cool stuff for $200? Okay, I'm still in. Double that and nope, not for me but somehow, if those who fly things that makes $400 sound like pennies, then maybe they have something better than Foreflight.
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There’s nothing in the $400 most of us need, which is why it’s optional. Why begrudge them offering things we don’t need to others who do? I can’t quite understand that mentality.
 
LDJones said:
There’s nothing in the $400 most of us need, which is why it’s optional. Why begrudge them offering things we don’t need to others who do? I can’t quite understand that mentality.
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Not begrudge, but not a good business model if they keep going down this path, especially when they don't offer that much more over some of the free or far less expensive options.
 
I use FltPlan.com for flight planning and weather and it works well for me in that capacity. Their iPad app crashes on me far too often for me to consider it as a viable EFB option. ForeFlight has served me very well. My company pays the bill, so I’m locked into the Pro level. I’ve never really bothered to look up what functions I’m missing because it does everything I’ve needed it for.
 
Dave Theisen said:
I use FltPlan.com for flight planning and weather and it works well for me in that capacity. Their iPad app crashes on me far too often for me to consider it as a viable EFB option. ForeFlight has served me very well. My company pays the bill, so I’m locked into the Pro level. I’ve never really bothered to look up what functions I’m missing because it does everything I’ve needed it for.
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Honest q... you like fltplan.com direct on the web or their app better for the planning part? I’m somewhat non-impressed with their app.
 
LDJones said:
This is EXACTLY the kind of tool my wife has been wanting for her job, which includes managing the travel itineraries for corporate staff on their company jet. She often has to figure out how long they’ll need to get to the airport after a site visit, then how much time they’ll need to get to the next site visit. It’s a time consuming process for her.

So it’s perfect for that segment of the market.
Click to expand...
Does the planning algorithm take into account the delays in getting a rental car and driving it in terrestrial traffic jams? Bathroom breaks? Waiting on fuel truck?
Trips rarely go according to plan. That's the pessimist in me talking. :)
 
BigBadLou said:
Does the planning algorithm take into account the delays in getting a rental car and driving it in terrestrial traffic jams? Bathroom breaks? Waiting on fuel truck?
Trips rarely go according to plan. That's the pessimist in me talking. :)
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Don’t give them ideas. They’ll go code that instead of working on making their app more efficient for... AIRPLANE use. Argh.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I agree with James. It was great at $100 when I first bought in. Came out with some really cool stuff for $200? Okay, I'm still in. Double that and nope, not for me but somehow, if those who fly things that makes $400 sound like pennies, then maybe they have something better than Foreflight.
Click to expand...

The $400 Performance version is aimed at turbine owners. It includes detailed performance profiles for many turbine and non-turbine aircraft that allow extremely accurate calculations of flight time and fuel burn, but the differences to those of us that fly normally aspirated piston aircraft are so small that it doesn't matter.

With a turbine, it's quite possible that choosing the right altitude with the Performance version will allow a turbine owner to save the difference in subscription costs on a single leg.

I don't know for sure why Trip Assistant is Performance-only for now, but there are two possible answers given what we've seen from ForeFlight in the past. One is that the "Basic" performance profiles (the ones you can get/enter in the non-Performance version) aren't accurate enough to make it worth doing Trip Assistant-style calculations. The other is simply that they're offering a premium feature to those who need it the most and pay the most, first, and that it will eventually work its way down to the Pro level and maybe even Basic. There have been other features in the past that have been Pro-only to start out with and have later been added to the Basic version. That's not "nickel and diming" that's simply differentiation of the two levels of the product. Nickel and diming would be if they charged you on a per-feature, per-chart or some other basis where you had to pay individually for each feature. I hardly think that three subscription levels counts.

BigBadLou said:
Does the planning algorithm take into account the delays in getting a rental car and driving it in terrestrial traffic jams? Bathroom breaks? Waiting on fuel truck?
Trips rarely go according to plan. That's the pessimist in me talking. :)
Click to expand...

Yes - You put in a delay time for each airport to account for those extras.
 
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