Foreflight use on checkrides

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classicrock

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recently I met the Pilot Examiner who performs many checkrides for PPL candidates at the school(in Houston TX) I take lessons at. I took the opportunity to ask him if he allow students pilots on their checkrides with him to use Foreflight)with GPS feature deactivated.. he said "yes I do"

yet I wanted to "crosscheck" his answer with the many student pilots who have passed their VFR Private Pilot checkride on this forum

of the many persons in this forum who RECENTLY took and passed their checkride for VFR Private Pilot(and own/use Foreflight), did your PE allow you to use Foreflight during the checkride
 
Mine allowed it but I didn't use it. This was last October so I don't know how recent you wanted.
 
Well if 2 years ago is recent enough I have feedback. I showed up at my checkride with paper sectionals, paper AF/Ds, and my ipad. I told the examiner that I preferred to use the ipad but I could go with paper charts instead if he didn't want me to use it. He told me to use whatever I was most comfortable with so I went with the ipad and there was no issue.
 
I would suggest having paper backups incase the iPad "fails" at the DPEs whim. ;) I didn't use mine on my PPL ride because it was too new to me but I used it happily on my IFR ride. My iPad "failed" at some point and I had to use the AFD to check some random fact about the airfield but I think that was more to prove that I had a copy and could read the contents page than anything.

I WILL have it on my CPL ride if I ever get off my lazy butt and practice the maneuvers.
 
Half Fast said:
What about a second iPad as a backup?
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During my check ride the DPE didn't fail the iPad, but did ask what I'd do in the event the G1000 failed and then the iPad failed. I mentioned that I had my iPhone 6 Plus with Foreflight loaded with all the same info, and I had a paper charts in my bag in the event of anything. I think ultimately the number one thing the DPE is looking for is that you aren't solely reliant on a single device, and instead are prepared in the event that excrement would hit the fan.
 
Have not gotten to the check ride just yet, but my DPE actually want to see me use ForeFlight and the GPS in the plane asz well. Those are what I plan to fly with, so why not check that I am proficient in their use during the check ride.
 
DPEs never had an issue with my check rides and fore flight with the GPS feature

However, on my commercial check ride 2 weeks ago, we were waiting for takeoff and it was so hot that my iPad overheated

Whipped out my backup iPad from the back seat. Should've seen the DPE's look on his face

Had paper backup too
 
Maciej said:
During my check ride the DPE didn't fail the iPad, but did ask what I'd do in the event the G1000 failed and then the iPad failed. I mentioned that I had my iPhone 6 Plus with Foreflight loaded with all the same info, and I had a paper charts in my bag in the event of anything. I think ultimately the number one thing the DPE is looking for is that you aren't solely reliant on a single device, and instead are prepared in the event that excrement would hit the fan.
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This actually became a real-life scenario for me on my way back from GA. My voltage regulator failed and battery was dying. I was over the top from VA, up DE into Northern MD. I had my Ipad going as well. Ipad battery died. I pulled out the fully charged 6+ and used that. Periodically i would flip on avionics and double check location with the 430 and my paper map, write down timing estimates, turn off the avionics and go back to monitoring the phone.
 
gitmo234 said:
This actually became a real-life scenario for me on my way back from GA. My voltage regulator failed and battery was dying. I was over the top from VA, up DE into Northern MD. I had my Ipad going as well. Ipad battery died. I pulled out the fully charged 6+ and used that. Periodically i would flip on avionics and double check location with the 430 and my paper map, write down timing estimates, turn off the avionics and go back to monitoring the phone.
Click to expand...

In my case ironically enough as soon as I bought my Diamond DA20C1 and had the G500 panel installed we had an issue where I'd intermittently lose GPS signal, I was flying through the bravo in an area I never went through previously I had everything shut off, iPad couldn't get GPS signal, all hell broke loose. Thankfully I had my phone right next to me and was able to head towards EWR like the tower told me without issue or any time lost.
 
I never used Foreflight or the GPS in my plane during initial training, so I was surprised when the DPE actually insisted we use it during the checkride. Thankfully, my CFI had shown me how to use the plane's GPS, I had just never bothered with it and instead opted to learn everything the "hard way" or old school way first. My day job involves developing and working with a lot of tech (maps, funny enough!) and so I know how often that stuff fails... am paranoid :)

It was funny because he was so impressed with how I stayed spot on with the magenta line (it was super windy that day), but, little did he know, I hadn't glanced at it once. Totally forgot it was even on after we took off... just started on my heading, used a focus point out in front, pilotage, dead reckoning, etc. That said, the first thing I did after my checkride (other than drink and text everyone I know...), was buy an iPad and download Foreflight. I use that and the plane GPS every time now... love it! But my paper maps and such are always in my bag, plus I have AVARE on my phone.

Just make sure you always have back up plans to back up plans, and that, at the end of the day, if all else fails you have enough "old school" skills and common sense to get the plane safely back on the ground. Spoke to a CFI recently who went on a cross country with a pilot working on his Commercial. At some point during the flight, the plane's GPS froze and, as luck would have it, his iPad was out of juice. The student lost all control of everything... got flustered, couldn't get his bearrings, completely stop flying the plane. He had NO idea what to do. Scary.
 
James331 said:
That would scream crutch.

iPads a great, I doubt DPEs care if you use them, as long as you don't NEED them.
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James hit it right on the money. When I did my IR Ride he said he didnt care if my charts were backlit by an Ipad or by a light as it's effectively the same thing less the GPS positioning. He let me use it but he did "kill the battery" during an approach. No biggie as I had every damn approach plate printed off...
 
Many DPEs are smart/reasonable/practical enough to realize that you should be tested on the things that you will actually use in the real world. Very few pilots fly with paper charts anymore, and if your airplane has a GPS, you're going to use it. While it's important to have a "plan B," pretending like the modern advances in technology don't exist (as some instructors like to do) is just silly. The instructors that refuse to let students use iPads or GPS are really doing them a disservice, as those students then turn into pilots who don't know how to use the "good" equipment in the airplane.
 
Good info, My CFI wants me to use foreflight(says its the future), but not sure how the DPE is going to be, so i just want to be proficient in both.
 
classicrock said:
recently I met the Pilot Examiner who performs many checkrides for PPL candidates at the school(in Houston TX) I take lessons at. I took the opportunity to ask him if he allow students pilots on their checkrides with him to use Foreflight)with GPS feature deactivated.. he said "yes I do"

yet I wanted to "crosscheck" his answer with the many student pilots who have passed their VFR Private Pilot checkride on this forum

of the many persons in this forum who RECENTLY took and passed their checkride for VFR Private Pilot(and own/use Foreflight), did your PE allow you to use Foreflight during the checkride
Click to expand...

They allow it, but be ready for a "failure". Have a backup.
 
Chad Phillips said:
Good info, My CFI wants me to use foreflight(says its the future), but not sure how the DPE is going to be, so i just want to be proficient in both.
Click to expand...


What's your CFIs experience?
 
bradg33 said:
Many DPEs are smart/reasonable/practical enough to realize that you should be tested on the things that you will actually use in the real world. Very few pilots fly with paper charts anymore, and if your airplane has a GPS, you're going to use it. While it's important to have a "plan B," pretending like the modern advances in technology don't exist (as some instructors like to do) is just silly. The instructors that refuse to let students use iPads or GPS are really doing them a disservice, as those students then turn into pilots who don't know how to use the "good" equipment in the airplane.
Click to expand...

Why does knowing how to use paper and VORs make you not understand a GPS?

I've been doing both for years. I could handle VFR flight on a 430W, as well as navigate a 172/A on the day of my checkride. It's not that hard.

You must understand ALL the tools in your airplane. Your GPS will lie rather convincingly to you on occasion.
 
Wow....how things have changed over time. The flight school I went to had a cow when I pulled out my electronic E6B back in '92.....
 
Mine allowed it but I didn't really need to use it
 
James331 said:
That would scream crutch.

iPads a great, I doubt DPEs care if you use them, as long as you don't NEED them.
Click to expand...

Use your iPhone as backup and then paper charts as your back up backup lol
 
You know...

...sometimes I think James is 16. Other times I think he's 76. ;)
 
Blindrage said:
Have not gotten to the check ride just yet, but my DPE actually want to see me use ForeFlight and the GPS in the plane asz well.
Click to expand...

This is a good point for anyone getting ready to do a checkride. Anything that is in the aircraft is fair game for the examiner to test you on. If it's in there, you better know how to use it.

One time I flew to McMinnville Or. for a 135 checkride in a helicopter I'd never been in before.

We walked out to the helicopter and as soon as the examiner got in he said, "Ok, so this is going to be an instrument check ride".

I said "What, what are you talking about. We're a Day/Night VFR Only 135 operation".

He pointed at the Garmin 530 and said, "You've got that, we'll have to shoot a couple of approaches".

I said, "But I've never even seen that thing, I don't know how to use it".

He replied, "It's your choice, instrument check ride or fail".

I asked if I could I have 30 minutes to learn the thing to which he obliged. So I walked across the ramp to a flight school and found an instrument instructor and hired him to come teach me how to use the GPS for approaches.

I went back to let the examiner know I was ready and he was so certain I would mess it up that he even brought another examiner along to watch the show. So off we went, long story short, I passed everything they threw at me and I think I ended up disappointing them both.

PJ
 
I've really only had 1 student use his iPad for training. For his checkride and training, he had his nav log on his iPad, ForeFlight on his phone and charts as a paper back ups for both. The examiner didn't seem to mind. I made him turn off the GPS and his iPad "failed" a bunch of times during training. I saw he wasn't using it as a crutch and could fly fine without it.
 
I haven't bought a paper chart in years, and have done both the IR and Commercial checkrides in the last 12 months. Our DPE is fully aware that electronics are the way to go and is accepting of it. I have my Samsung tablet with Naviator installed, my cell phone for a backup with Naviator also installed, plus the aircraft has a GTN650 and a panel mount 496. He stressed the point repeatedly to use the tools you have at hand. He also stressed the ability to use all of the electronics you have in an emergency. Just because your legal IFR GPS bit the dust, doesn't mean you can't use the VFR GPS or other devices to save your bacon in an emergency.
 
SToL said:
This is a good point for anyone getting ready to do a checkride. Anything that is in the aircraft is fair game for the examiner to test you on. If it's in there, you better know how to use it.

One time I flew to McMinnville Or. for a 135 checkride in a helicopter I'd never been in before.

We walked out to the helicopter and as soon as the examiner got in he said, "Ok, so this is going to be an instrument check ride".

I said "What, what are you talking about. We're a Day/Night VFR Only 135 operation".

He pointed at the Garmin 530 and said, "You've got that, we'll have to shoot a couple of approaches".

I said, "But I've never even seen that thing, I don't know how to use it".

He replied, "It's your choice, instrument check ride or fail".

I asked if I could I have 30 minutes to learn the thing to which he obliged. So I walked across the ramp to a flight school and found an instrument instructor and hired him to come teach me how to use the GPS for approaches.

I went back to let the examiner know I was ready and he was so certain I would mess it up that he even brought another examiner along to watch the show. So off we went, long story short, I passed everything they threw at me and I think I ended up disappointing them both.

PJ
Click to expand...

That examiner (DPE? or fed?) would never get my business, or the business of anyone I knew, EVER again. That was a concerted attempt to take your money and fail you. The other examiner was going to be a witness.
 
My PP checkride was 15 years ago. I don't think this was an option back then. My IR ride 5 years ago was a different story. I used DUATS to plan the flight and the DPE had no trouble with that. Said I demonstrated my ability to do it by hand when I took my PP ride. The plane had a 430W in the panel. Sure had to know how to run that. And recognize when I screwed up in my button pushing and it was telling me to do something wrong (tried to send us back to a waypoint when I was established on the ILS with needles centered, I told him of the error and flew the approach anyway. Full credit). Know your equipment, maintain situational awareness and have a plan B, C or D as necessary. Personally, I have a tablet with Garmin Pilot, but I still use paper charts. Batteries don't die unexpectedly with them.
 
At Oshkosh I listened to a lecture by a Master CFI who said he prefers all students to use Foreflight or equivalent. You have far better situational awareness (position, weather, even traffic with the right equipment) with the iPad than paper. But if you are going to use it, he insisted you KNOW how to use it well. He routinely presents challenges to the students that tests their knowledge of Foreflight to pull the correct information. In fact, he spends time with each student in ground school to make sure they are proficient at using their electronics. He does not insist on paper backups if you can demonstrate you have other electronic backups (like your phone).
 
The local San Diego DPEs whom I've asked this question allow an ipad with FF but like to see a backup of some type like paper charts.
 
When you guys are discussing using foreflight (or equivalent) on a private pilot check ride, is this with GPS enabled or just as a digital form of sectional, a/fd, etc.?
 
My examiner has said yes to foreflight, no to gps.
 
superdave032 said:
When you guys are discussing using foreflight (or equivalent) on a private pilot check ride, is this with GPS enabled or just as a digital form of sectional, a/fd, etc.?
Click to expand...
I had my students turn off the GPS but I let them use it for charts. The examiner did the same thing.
 
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