I know this is just opinion, but I strongly disagree. At the basic level, they offer a certain level of service. Either buy it or don't. Sometimes they improve it. That's a windfall. When it happens, you should be grateful. But to expect certain services to be added to the basic is a little much. As far as not having two tiers even be offered, why do you want to interfere with the business relationship that I and others have? Frankly, I think what they offer is a bargain at the pro level. If you want that service, pay up. If not, don't.
Foreflight 6.3 with W&B and flight path recording...
- Thread starter LuisO
- Start date
I know this is just opinion, but I strongly disagree. At the basic level, they offer a certain level of service. Either buy it or don't. Sometimes they improve it. That's a windfall. When it happens, you should be grateful. But to expect certain services to be added to the basic is a little much. As far as not having two tiers even be offered, why do you want to interfere with the business relationship that I and others have? Frankly, I think what they offer is a bargain at the pro level. If you want that service, pay up. If not, don't.
It's this same thinking that makes people want to throw their iPhone 4 away just because the iPhone 4s just came out. My god, there is a better phone. So now my phone is useless!
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Scott@KTYR
I am a PRO fan. Love it!!
I do not know why I waited so long to use this program.
Worth every $.
I do not know why I waited so long to use this program.
Worth every $.
It looks like tracking goes funky if you close the cover. I tested it on a drive from the airport and it was right on until I closed the cover, then entered some really odd points way off my course.
RV10flyer
Pattern Altitude
The Pro version includes these extras and as a VFR guy I use or will use the ones with an asterisk enough to make it worth it.
Geo-referenced approach plates
Airport diagrams *
Hazard advisor *
Plates on maps
Profile view *
Annotations for plates
Flight alerts *
Cloud document management and storage
W&B
Flight track recording *
Geo-referenced approach plates
Airport diagrams *
Hazard advisor *
Plates on maps
Profile view *
Annotations for plates
Flight alerts *
Cloud document management and storage
W&B
Flight track recording *
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RV10flyer
Pattern Altitude
Maybe because you were driving and not flying. Let us know after flying.
Do you think it really knew whether I was flying or driving??
Edit: or maybe flying a helicopter which often matches my driving speeds!
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NickC99
Pre-takeoff checklist
For $150 a year, it's a bargain. That's $12.50 a month. I haven't even finished training and upgraded to Pro after the first year.
I look at the pricing this way: It costs $150/year with a $75/year fewer-featured option for those who don't want/need extra options.
I look at the pricing this way: It costs $150/year with a $75/year fewer-featured option for those who don't want/need extra options.
mjburian
Cleared for Takeoff
I tested it last night flying and it worked great. Then, I also tested it on my drive home from the airport. Also worked great.
Neither time was there an actual cover on it, but it was in my iPro Navigator (http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/19122) in the plane and in my flight bag for the ride home. I was surprised at how accurate the tracks were in both instances.
buzzard86
Pre-takeoff checklist
After further consideration, I've realized that I am probably guilty of getting spoiled by Foreflight. I have been a long time user and have stayed with FF over the years in large part because of their focus on customer service and ongoing development. Indeed, Tyson's responses in this thread demonstrate their desire to listen to their users.
Traditionally, the enhancements were geared to the level of the end user. It made sense to me that things like terrain awareness, georeferenced plates, etc were all aimed at the pro package. I never felt the need for these features and therefore didn't opt for the pro level subscription, even if the cost was only "the equivalent of two hours worth of fuel." I still considered myself a proud Foreflight customer even as a standard user. My expectation was that a basic functionality like a W&B app would have been geared to all users, so I was quite surprised to see the "must upgrade" message when I tried to use it. My initial reaction was that FF was simply dissing it's non-premium customer base.
I agree that Foreflight is a super deal at either the standard or pro levels. I applaud FF's desire to be innovative and sincerely appreciate Tyson's explanation of why they chose to limit W&B to the higher tier based on the development and ongoing support costs. Had I understood this from the outset, my initial reaction would have been quite different.
In light of his response and this ongoing discussion, I think I may upgrade to the premium level.
Traditionally, the enhancements were geared to the level of the end user. It made sense to me that things like terrain awareness, georeferenced plates, etc were all aimed at the pro package. I never felt the need for these features and therefore didn't opt for the pro level subscription, even if the cost was only "the equivalent of two hours worth of fuel." I still considered myself a proud Foreflight customer even as a standard user. My expectation was that a basic functionality like a W&B app would have been geared to all users, so I was quite surprised to see the "must upgrade" message when I tried to use it. My initial reaction was that FF was simply dissing it's non-premium customer base.
I agree that Foreflight is a super deal at either the standard or pro levels. I applaud FF's desire to be innovative and sincerely appreciate Tyson's explanation of why they chose to limit W&B to the higher tier based on the development and ongoing support costs. Had I understood this from the outset, my initial reaction would have been quite different.
In light of his response and this ongoing discussion, I think I may upgrade to the premium level.
I was surprised to see the funky points. I would have understood had there been a single straight line from where I closed the cover to my final destination. But it had several point miles off my route as points along my track, so apparently it thought it was doing something.
Prior to closing the cover it was perfect.
JeffDG
Touchdown! Greaser!
<pure speculation>
Internal or external GPS?
Maybe the magnets in the cover make the GPS reception funky...it's a very weak RF signal that it's capturing.
</pure speculation>
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
Agree x1000
The move to paperless EFBs is what really pulled me back into flying. And I mean Foreflight specifically.
Using internal GPS. The iPad's Maps app works fine with the cover closed, accurately tracking your position and providing accurate audible driving directions. So I don't think the cover is an issue.
cshavit
Filing Flight Plan
Yes, CloudAhoy has weather, specifically wind. It displays the wind at any point along the flight path, as well as the airspeed and heading. The wind data is saved as part of the flight, and is displayed both numerically and graphically as wind barbs.
cshavit
Filing Flight Plan
You're correct. Our integration with ForeFlight enables importing Stratus data from ForeFlight to CloudAhoy, and analyze and debrief the flight.
BTW, if you are only interested in flight tracks, you can also use CloudAhoy Free. The paid subscription is only needed for the full debrief features including segmentation, wind, approaches etc.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Easy there Marty, ForeFlight has an entire team of real beta testers (of which I am one) and does NOT use end users as "beta testers".
I think it's likely that they decided their development/support investment on annotations has been recouped and thus it's been moved to the standard subscription. I wouldn't be surprised to see that again in the future, though as always I do not have any direct knowledge of ForeFlight's plans in that area and/or couldn't share it if I did.
But, were I a standard subscriber, I think I'd take your advice and be happy that I got some of the new stuff and some "old" stuff that was previously only available to pro users... Or I'd just cough up the six bucks a month and get it all right now.
As I was telling someone at OSH last week, in 2008 I took a trip where the paper charts and materials cost $225 and took up two grocery bags, and again that was for ONE TRIP. Even keeping things up to date for your local area only (one of each) for a year costs $125. So really, all of the EFB apps are quite the bargain in comparison to what we used to pay for paper!
CodeMonkey
Pre-Flight
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CodeMonkey
I think we're going to change our pricing to be quoted in Aviation Maintenance Units. So, 0.15 AMUs get you ForeFlight Pro for a year
TulsaWeather
Pre-takeoff checklist
Hey Code Monkey,
For lazy VFR pilots (looks at self sheepishly) would still love a VNAV profile with an active flight plan.
For lazy VFR pilots (looks at self sheepishly) would still love a VNAV profile with an active flight plan.
Artiom
Pre-takeoff checklist
Tyson, would be possible to add tracking auto start/stop? It might be not so simple with internal GPS but with Stratus FF can start recording when connected and stop recording upon disconnecting from it.
AggieMike88
Touchdown! Greaser!
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
+1 for this. Possibly in the info bar on the bottom of the screen.
AggieMike88
Touchdown! Greaser!
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Or instead of "start when connected" do "start tracking when ground speed exceeds 35 knots"
CodeMonkey
Pre-Flight
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CodeMonkey
Discussing.
TulsaWeather
Pre-takeoff checklist
AggieMike88
Touchdown! Greaser!
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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Cool. Thanks for connecting with your fan base and listening to us.
BG305
Pre-takeoff checklist
Student pilot with FF Pro and loving it. Keep the updates coming.
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
I recently switched back to FF from WingX. There were pros and cons to each - WingX has the best moving map options of all the contenders for example - but FF is best for IFR and so many flight schools use it. So back I went. Feels good.
mjburian
Cleared for Takeoff
You're absolutely right, Kent. I know about the *actual* beta tester program, so probably should've used better wording. What I really meant was that there are probably some things that will trickle down to standard users from the Pro level once they're "paid for" and/or the support for those functions has been streamlined. I can imagine the new W&B stuff is going to be a support nightmare for the relatively near future. At some point, they'll likely grow their knowledge base (and update the instructions doc), increase the aircraft database and (as has already been discussed) more fully integrate it into the flight planning process. Once all of that is done, I could see the functionality being released to standard users (who would then need less support). Though, obviously, that's an internal decision for ForeFlight to make. In the meantime, I'll just continue being a happy Pro subscriber.
This is what makes the Pro subscription a no-brainer for me. Not only do I save the hassle of paper charts, but I also save a little money. And on a device that I can use for other things when I'm not flying (whereas paper charts really don't perform many other functions -- sunshades and scratch paper excluded). Why someone would still fly with paper charts today baffles me (to each his own, I guess).
nddons
Touchdown! Greaser!
Very cool. I will have to check out these new features. I'm another huge fan of FF. I've been a user since their first version. For a while I had full subscriptions to FF and WingX to give them both a fair shake but settled on FF.
Stuff I wish for? Overlaying winds and temperatures at different altitudes on the map, not just surface wind and surface temperature.
Stuff I wish for? Overlaying winds and temperatures at different altitudes on the map, not just surface wind and surface temperature.
dans2992
En-Route
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Dans2992
+1 for VNAV for me as well. I would use it when IFR to know when I need to start harassing them for lower. Also, it would be convenient when they do give you that last-minute descent to know "what rate do I really need"...
Auto-start for tracking is also desirable. Here's a thought - how about when FF detects you moving over 35 knots or X knots _and_ you are located on an airport.
RV10flyer
Pattern Altitude
It is about 4 touches on the screen to pull up winds/temps aloft at an airport along our route. The temps are close but the winds seem to always be off by 20-60 degrees compared to my EFIS.
mjburian
Cleared for Takeoff
Both features would definitely be useful. About the only thing I use the 496 for anymore is the VNAV and weather (but soon to be just VNAV as my wife wouldn't let me buy a Stratus at OSH because "Do you have to ruin everything? Our anniversary is in a month."
)As for the moving over X knots, there's already a trigger set up for the Hazard Advisor. Whenever I select that overlay on the ground, there's a message that says "Hazard Advisor disabled, < 30 kts" so maybe they can tap into that (and provide a setting to turn on/off the auto-start/stop of tracks)?
I have many items on my wish list, but I'll say that in the years I've been a customer I've been nothing but happy and impressed with the product, the update cycle and the customer service. This is one company that's doing it right, IMO.
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
+1. WingX has this and it's nice. Makes it easy to decide when to descend when VFR (or nag 'em if IFR).
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Better yet, there's a warning when you're entering a runway. That's what I suggested as a start trigger...
mjburian
Cleared for Takeoff
That would work, too. Though for that to work there might need to be a trigger for exiting a runway (when tracking would stop). While I'm guessing there is one, it's not strictly necessary for the entry warnings. If the warning is always just upon entering, it doesn't much matter if you track the exit. I haven't paid close enough attention to the warnings to see if there's an exit notification or behavior when crossing runways (ie, is there another runway entry warning when rolling out beyond a crossing runway?)
denverpilot
Tied Down
No sliders with instant results? You have to manually input values? Not very intuitive if you ask me
Someone at FF should have just licensed your code. Would have gotten it done faster and cheaper and better.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
There's already an auto-stop to the tracking - IIRC if you don't move significantly for 25 minutes it stops automatically. However, that means it does usually catch my drive home.
nddons
Touchdown! Greaser!
There's already an auto-stop to the tracking - IIRC if you don't move significantly for 25 minutes it stops automatically. However, that means it does usually catch my drive home.
With extreeeeemly slow ground speed in the drive-through lane at Culvers?