Foreflight 6.3 with W&B and flight path recording...

For me, the entire issue with new features being added to Pro only is that many of those features represent basic functionality which shouldn't really require a Pro or "premium" subscription. Therefore, the decision to enable them only for Pro users makes no sense. W&B is one of those features. One of ForeFlight's strengths versus the competition is flight planning, of which W&B is a part, and for which a "premium" subscription is otherwise not necessary. Enabling such features only for Pro subscribers reeks of using them as leverage to upsell premium subscriptions for those who otherwise do not need premium features (such as VFR-only pilots). Personally, I would expect track logging to be a Pro feature before W&B, but FF elected to present them exactly backwards. Development costs may be driving these decisions, but the marketing effort appears to be lacking.

If new significant features require the revenue stream from Pro subscriptions to sustain their development, and if $150/year really isn't an issue for most pilots, then perhaps FF should only offer one subscription level. Otherwise, I think a more logical approach would be to segment the products based on functionality, even if an enhanced version of basic functionality is enabled with the Pro subscription.


JKG

I know this is just opinion, but I strongly disagree. At the basic level, they offer a certain level of service. Either buy it or don't. Sometimes they improve it. That's a windfall. When it happens, you should be grateful. But to expect certain services to be added to the basic is a little much. As far as not having two tiers even be offered, why do you want to interfere with the business relationship that I and others have? Frankly, I think what they offer is a bargain at the pro level. If you want that service, pay up. If not, don't.
 
Is your standard subscription worth any less because it still doesn't have a feature it didn't have when you paid for it? Why not just pretend the new functionality doesn't exist at all, since it doesn't exist in your version?
It's this same thinking that makes people want to throw their iPhone 4 away just because the iPhone 4s just came out. My god, there is a better phone. So now my phone is useless!
 
I am a PRO fan. Love it!!
I do not know why I waited so long to use this program.
Worth every $.
 
It looks like tracking goes funky if you close the cover. I tested it on a drive from the airport and it was right on until I closed the cover, then entered some really odd points way off my course.
 
The Pro version includes these extras and as a VFR guy I use or will use the ones with an asterisk enough to make it worth it.

Geo-referenced approach plates
Airport diagrams *
Hazard advisor *
Plates on maps
Profile view *
Annotations for plates
Flight alerts *
Cloud document management and storage
W&B
Flight track recording *
 
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It looks like tracking goes funky if you close the cover. I tested it on a drive from the airport and it was right on until I closed the cover, then entered some really odd points way off my course.

Maybe because you were driving and not flying. Let us know after flying.
 
Maybe because you were driving and not flying. Let us know after flying.

Do you think it really knew whether I was flying or driving?? :dunno:

Edit: or maybe flying a helicopter which often matches my driving speeds!
 
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For $150 a year, it's a bargain. That's $12.50 a month. I haven't even finished training and upgraded to Pro after the first year.

I look at the pricing this way: It costs $150/year with a $75/year fewer-featured option for those who don't want/need extra options.
 
It looks like tracking goes funky if you close the cover. I tested it on a drive from the airport and it was right on until I closed the cover, then entered some really odd points way off my course.

Maybe because you were driving and not flying. Let us know after flying.

I tested it last night flying and it worked great. Then, I also tested it on my drive home from the airport. Also worked great.

Neither time was there an actual cover on it, but it was in my iPro Navigator (http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/19122) in the plane and in my flight bag for the ride home. I was surprised at how accurate the tracks were in both instances.
 
After further consideration, I've realized that I am probably guilty of getting spoiled by Foreflight. I have been a long time user and have stayed with FF over the years in large part because of their focus on customer service and ongoing development. Indeed, Tyson's responses in this thread demonstrate their desire to listen to their users.

Traditionally, the enhancements were geared to the level of the end user. It made sense to me that things like terrain awareness, georeferenced plates, etc were all aimed at the pro package. I never felt the need for these features and therefore didn't opt for the pro level subscription, even if the cost was only "the equivalent of two hours worth of fuel." I still considered myself a proud Foreflight customer even as a standard user. My expectation was that a basic functionality like a W&B app would have been geared to all users, so I was quite surprised to see the "must upgrade" message when I tried to use it. My initial reaction was that FF was simply dissing it's non-premium customer base.

I agree that Foreflight is a super deal at either the standard or pro levels. I applaud FF's desire to be innovative and sincerely appreciate Tyson's explanation of why they chose to limit W&B to the higher tier based on the development and ongoing support costs. Had I understood this from the outset, my initial reaction would have been quite different.

In light of his response and this ongoing discussion, I think I may upgrade to the premium level.
 
I tested it last night flying and it worked great. Then, I also tested it on my drive home from the airport. Also worked great.

Neither time was there an actual cover on it, but it was in my iPro Navigator (http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/product/19122) in the plane and in my flight bag for the ride home. I was surprised at how accurate the tracks were in both instances.

I was surprised to see the funky points. I would have understood had there been a single straight line from where I closed the cover to my final destination. But it had several point miles off my route as points along my track, so apparently it thought it was doing something.

Prior to closing the cover it was perfect.
 
I was surprised to see the funky points. I would have understood had there been a single straight line from where I closed the cover to my final destination. But it had several point miles off my route as points along my track, so apparently it thought it was doing something.

Prior to closing the cover it was perfect.
<pure speculation>
Internal or external GPS?

Maybe the magnets in the cover make the GPS reception funky...it's a very weak RF signal that it's capturing.
</pure speculation>
 
An extra $75 a year isn't even an hours worth of flying. It's the best deal in aviation, IMHO.

Agree x1000

The move to paperless EFBs is what really pulled me back into flying. And I mean Foreflight specifically.
 
<pure speculation>
Internal or external GPS?

Maybe the magnets in the cover make the GPS reception funky...it's a very weak RF signal that it's capturing.
</pure speculation>

Using internal GPS. The iPad's Maps app works fine with the cover closed, accurately tracking your position and providing accurate audible driving directions. So I don't think the cover is an issue.
 
I had never heard of CloudAhoy until now. Does it perhaps show historical weather like FlightAware does? I think that is incredibly cool to be able to remember what the wx was doing during a flight.

​Yes, CloudAhoy has weather, specifically wind. It displays the wind at any point along the flight path, as well as the airspeed and heading. The wind data is ​saved as part of the flight, and is displayed both numerically and graphically as wind barbs.
 
Depends: if all you were using CloudAhoy for was track logs with no "analysis" of your flight, then this does that, so CA might not be so useful.

But if you like the CloudAhoy analysis and you have a Stratus, now you can directly export the track log from ForeFlight to CloudAhoy.


​You're correct. Our integration with ForeFlight enables importing Stratus data from ForeFlight to CloudAhoy, and analyze and debrief the flight.

BTW, if you are only interested in flight tracks, you can also use CloudAhoy Free. The paid subscription is only needed for the full debrief features including segmentation, wind, approaches etc.
 
Also, I understand they just added annotations to the standard subscription, so maybe they're using the Pro users as beta testers for some functionality that will eventually waterfall to the standard users? It's not like they're ignoring standard users.

Easy there Marty, ForeFlight has an entire team of real beta testers (of which I am one) and does NOT use end users as "beta testers".

I think it's likely that they decided their development/support investment on annotations has been recouped and thus it's been moved to the standard subscription. I wouldn't be surprised to see that again in the future, though as always I do not have any direct knowledge of ForeFlight's plans in that area and/or couldn't share it if I did.

But, were I a standard subscriber, I think I'd take your advice and be happy that I got some of the new stuff and some "old" stuff that was previously only available to pro users... Or I'd just cough up the six bucks a month and get it all right now.

As I was telling someone at OSH last week, in 2008 I took a trip where the paper charts and materials cost $225 and took up two grocery bags, and again that was for ONE TRIP. Even keeping things up to date for your local area only (one of each) for a year costs $125. So really, all of the EFB apps are quite the bargain in comparison to what we used to pay for paper!
 
As I was telling someone at OSH last week, in 2008 I took a trip where the paper charts and materials cost $225 and took up two grocery bags, and again that was for ONE TRIP. Even keeping things up to date for your local area only (one of each) for a year costs $125. So really, all of the EFB apps are quite the bargain in comparison to what we used to pay for paper!

I think we're going to change our pricing to be quoted in Aviation Maintenance Units. So, 0.15 AMUs get you ForeFlight Pro for a year :yes:
 
Hey Code Monkey,

For lazy VFR pilots (looks at self sheepishly) would still love a VNAV profile with an active flight plan.
 
Tyson, would be possible to add tracking auto start/stop? It might be not so simple with internal GPS but with Stratus FF can start recording when connected and stop recording upon disconnecting from it.
 
Hey Code Monkey,

For lazy VFR pilots (looks at self sheepishly) would still love a VNAV profile with an active flight plan.

+1 for this. Possibly in the info bar on the bottom of the screen.
 
Tyson, would be possible to add tracking auto start/stop? It might be not so simple with internal GPS but with Stratus FF can start recording when connected and stop recording upon disconnecting from it.

Or instead of "start when connected" do "start tracking when ground speed exceeds 35 knots"
 
Student pilot with FF Pro and loving it. Keep the updates coming.
 
I recently switched back to FF from WingX. There were pros and cons to each - WingX has the best moving map options of all the contenders for example - but FF is best for IFR and so many flight schools use it. So back I went. Feels good.
 
Easy there Marty, ForeFlight has an entire team of real beta testers (of which I am one) and does NOT use end users as "beta testers".

You're absolutely right, Kent. I know about the *actual* beta tester program, so probably should've used better wording. What I really meant was that there are probably some things that will trickle down to standard users from the Pro level once they're "paid for" and/or the support for those functions has been streamlined. I can imagine the new W&B stuff is going to be a support nightmare for the relatively near future. At some point, they'll likely grow their knowledge base (and update the instructions doc), increase the aircraft database and (as has already been discussed) more fully integrate it into the flight planning process. Once all of that is done, I could see the functionality being released to standard users (who would then need less support). Though, obviously, that's an internal decision for ForeFlight to make. In the meantime, I'll just continue being a happy Pro subscriber. :yes:

As I was telling someone at OSH last week, in 2008 I took a trip where the paper charts and materials cost $225 and took up two grocery bags, and again that was for ONE TRIP. Even keeping things up to date for your local area only (one of each) for a year costs $125. So really, all of the EFB apps are quite the bargain in comparison to what we used to pay for paper!

This is what makes the Pro subscription a no-brainer for me. Not only do I save the hassle of paper charts, but I also save a little money. And on a device that I can use for other things when I'm not flying (whereas paper charts really don't perform many other functions -- sunshades and scratch paper excluded). Why someone would still fly with paper charts today baffles me (to each his own, I guess). :dunno:
 
Very cool. I will have to check out these new features. I'm another huge fan of FF. I've been a user since their first version. For a while I had full subscriptions to FF and WingX to give them both a fair shake but settled on FF.

Stuff I wish for? Overlaying winds and temperatures at different altitudes on the map, not just surface wind and surface temperature.
 
+1 for this. Possibly in the info bar on the bottom of the screen.

+1 for VNAV for me as well. I would use it when IFR to know when I need to start harassing them for lower. Also, it would be convenient when they do give you that last-minute descent to know "what rate do I really need"...

Auto-start for tracking is also desirable. Here's a thought - how about when FF detects you moving over 35 knots or X knots _and_ you are located on an airport.
 
Stuff I wish for? Overlaying winds and temperatures at different altitudes on the map, not just surface wind and surface temperature.

It is about 4 touches on the screen to pull up winds/temps aloft at an airport along our route. The temps are close but the winds seem to always be off by 20-60 degrees compared to my EFIS.
 
+1 for VNAV for me as well. I would use it when IFR to know when I need to start harassing them for lower. Also, it would be convenient when they do give you that last-minute descent to know "what rate do I really need"...

Auto-start for tracking is also desirable. Here's a thought - how about when FF detects you moving over 35 knots or X knots _and_ you are located on an airport.

Both features would definitely be useful. About the only thing I use the 496 for anymore is the VNAV and weather (but soon to be just VNAV as my wife wouldn't let me buy a Stratus at OSH because "Do you have to ruin everything? Our anniversary is in a month." :yes:)

As for the moving over X knots, there's already a trigger set up for the Hazard Advisor. Whenever I select that overlay on the ground, there's a message that says "Hazard Advisor disabled, < 30 kts" so maybe they can tap into that (and provide a setting to turn on/off the auto-start/stop of tracks)?

I have many items on my wish list, but I'll say that in the years I've been a customer I've been nothing but happy and impressed with the product, the update cycle and the customer service. This is one company that's doing it right, IMO.
 
+1 for VNAV for me as well. I would use it when IFR to know when I need to start harassing them for lower. Also, it would be convenient when they do give you that last-minute descent to know "what rate do I really need"...

Auto-start for tracking is also desirable. Here's a thought - how about when FF detects you moving over 35 knots or X knots _and_ you are located on an airport.

+1. WingX has this and it's nice. Makes it easy to decide when to descend when VFR (or nag 'em if IFR).
 
As for the moving over X knots, there's already a trigger set up for the Hazard Advisor. Whenever I select that overlay on the ground, there's a message that says "Hazard Advisor disabled, < 30 kts" so maybe they can tap into that (and provide a setting to turn on/off the auto-start/stop of tracks)?

Better yet, there's a warning when you're entering a runway. That's what I suggested as a start trigger...
 
Better yet, there's a warning when you're entering a runway. That's what I suggested as a start trigger...


That would work, too. Though for that to work there might need to be a trigger for exiting a runway (when tracking would stop). While I'm guessing there is one, it's not strictly necessary for the entry warnings. If the warning is always just upon entering, it doesn't much matter if you track the exit. I haven't paid close enough attention to the warnings to see if there's an exit notification or behavior when crossing runways (ie, is there another runway entry warning when rolling out beyond a crossing runway?)
 
No sliders with instant results? You have to manually input values? Not very intuitive if you ask me :D


Someone at FF should have just licensed your code. Would have gotten it done faster and cheaper and better. ;)
 
That would work, too. Though for that to work there might need to be a trigger for exiting a runway (when tracking would stop).

There's already an auto-stop to the tracking - IIRC if you don't move significantly for 25 minutes it stops automatically. However, that means it does usually catch my drive home. :goofy:
 
There's already an auto-stop to the tracking - IIRC if you don't move significantly for 25 minutes it stops automatically. However, that means it does usually catch my drive home. :goofy:

With extreeeeemly slow ground speed in the drive-through lane at Culvers? :D
 
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