For $350k---Cessna 206 or Cirrus 22?

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Sierra Victor

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Sierra Victor
I'm actively searching for a re-start 206 but the recent CAPS thread really got me thinking!
I'm a relatively new pilot w/IR and am ready to pull the trigger on a plane to haul me, my wife, and two kids (ages 10 and 6) and 70 lb dog on trips that will average 300-500 miles. I've trained in Cessnas and always been a fan of the high wing, but the whole parachute deal has got me thinking about a Cirrus.
IMO general avaition is no place for an ego, and I know mistakes are possible. Way too many better-than-me pilots have managed to kill themselves.
Anyway, I read that the useful is equivalent to the 206 but it doesn't look like it has the room of the 206. The interior finish out on the Cirrus is pretty plush but I haven't got any experience with them other than what I've seen on the net.
Tell me which one to buy!!! :goofy:
 
A 70 pound dog in a cirrus. I don't think it would fit with the 2 kids.
 
I'm a Cessna guy, so take it for what it's worth, but with 4 people and a dog, a 206 will a better, but somewhat slower fit. The kids will grow quickly, very quickly and I think you would outgrow a 4 passenger airplane fairly quickly, even without the dog. :D 4+dog in a Cirrus would probably be OK for a quick flight, but for a 2+ hour ride it will get real uncomfortable, real quick. ;) Since you are in Texas, just call Van Bortel. :D And get air conditioning if you can! :D
 
Simply put, you won't haul 4 people, a 70 lb dog and luggage in a Cirrus. You can do it with a 206.
 
So far the responses go along with my assumptions. Looking at the Cirrus on their website they really make the interior look spacious but they conveniently leave out any pictures of the cargo area.

Glad I'm on the right track then with the 206.
BTW, I've visited Van Bortel and when the day comes I want to pay a 20% premium so I can bring it back in 60 days for a refund then they'll have my business. Until then.....not so much.

Oh, and AC is a MUST-HAVE IMO. Just aren't very many on the market...been shopping for months.

Thanks fellas
 
$350k will buy a nicely modernized Seneca and plenty of recurrent training.
 
If your budget is this much, why not get an A36 or similar? Or a 6 seat twin?

Nothing against the 206, but if you can go 175 knots in a different airplane for the same price and accomplish the mission, I'd look there.
 
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Sierra Victor said:
I'm actively searching for a re-start 206 but the recent CAPS thread really got me thinking!
I'm a relatively new pilot w/IR and am ready to pull the trigger on a plane to haul me, my wife, and two kids (ages 10 and 6) and 70 lb dog on trips that will average 300-500 miles. I've trained in Cessnas and always been a fan of the high wing, but the whole parachute deal has got me thinking about a Cirrus.
IMO general avaition is no place for an ego, and I know mistakes are possible. Way too many better-than-me pilots have managed to kill themselves.
Anyway, I read that the useful is equivalent to the 206 but it doesn't look like it has the room of the 206. The interior finish out on the Cirrus is pretty plush but I haven't got any experience with them other than what I've seen on the net.
Tell me which one to buy!!! :goofy:
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It sounds like safety is your primary objective. If you value this highly, I recommend the 206. I think the safety statistics will support the fact it's a safer plane, especially for a low time freshly rated IFR pilot. If you had 750 hours + IR or something, it might be a different story.

This 206 also carries a hell of a load, those kids will grow, and we do not know your weight.

Don't get me wrong, the SR22 is a great plane and it will cruise much faster than the 206. The 206 is not a particularly fast plane. But, I can't in the right mind steer someone that direction due to parachute/safety.

They will also hold their value fairly well as a workhorse, but anything "newer", especially under 10-15 years in GA, depreciates more.
 
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Sierra Victor said:
So far the responses go along with my assumptions. Looking at the Cirrus on their website they really make the interior look spacious but they conveniently leave out any pictures of the cargo area.

Glad I'm on the right track then with the 206.
BTW, I've visited Van Bortel and when the day comes I want to pay a 20% premium so I can bring it back in 60 days for a refund then they'll have my business. Until then.....not so much.

Oh, and AC is a MUST-HAVE IMO. Just aren't very many on the market...been shopping for months.

Thanks fellas
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Van Bortel won't be the cheapest, they seem to be fairly competitive, but you will get what you pay for with them 100% of the time. That being said, if it's your first airplane, make sure you buy it from someone that is trustworthy, whether it's VB or someone else. Beware the bargain airplane. :eek:
 
BRS, the maker of the ballistic parachutes, claims that it is developing a solution for the 206.

http://brsparachutes.com/cessna_182_faq.aspx

You could phone BRS to ask how this project stands. Their claim is getting a bit old, however, so I wouldn't count on it happening unless they can persuade you that they are already testing the product.

If they do come out with the product, I think it would be very attractive for your needs.
 
I have a 205 which is similar to or basically early 206. I also have a Columbia which is similar to the cirrus. The 205 can be loaded with 6 people and full fuel and maybe still have room for bag or three. The Columbia has room for two and full fuel and maybe a bag. I usually fly about 1000 mile trips. The Columbia will do trip hour or so faster on little less fuel. The 205 can be loaded like a station wagon. I wouldn't own cirrus or Columbia without air cond but the 205 isn't to bad. Can open doors and or windows on ground.
 
Toga.

The 206 flies like a truck - it's not like a 172. The Cirrus is going to be too small.
 
The FBO I used to work at had a guy hangar his SR22 there. He never loaded exactly like you did but would regularly put two (halfway disassembled) bikes in the backseat along with one small dog in the back seat. A couple of bags and their golden retriever (similar to your 70lb dog requirement) in the cargo area. The dog was not in a cage however, he was used to it enough that the guy opened the door and the dog jumped in. Him and his wife would obviously be up front.

From what I remember most of his trips were around two hours per leg.
 
For a parachute-equipped plane, with great loading, good bet is a 182P model.

With Fresh Pick STC = 150 increase in MGTOW, that will offset the parachute, full fuel (around 5.5 hours), you'll still have 800+ lbs payload. Put a Pponk engine on it to carry the weight around (275 hp). A 182 Q would work too, but they weigh about 30-50 lbs more than a P model.

In the budget range you're in, you might even find a Katmai 182 conversion that fits the bill (it's like having a new plane). Not sure if Katmai will option in the parachute or not.

Jeff
 
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I think you probably want a 206. Wouldn't want to get dog hair on the nice BMW-like leather of an SR22
 
EdFred said:
206, not even a question.
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Agree. The SR22 is roomy, but you need six seats, and you'll probably want to remove the bench. The SR22 is faster, but that would only make a difference on long-hauls.

Get a turbo 206.
 
350 also gets you a later model A36 with money to spare to add the new (now factory) AC and glass panel. It'll be as fast as the SR22 and offers plenty of room for 4+dog. For that budget, you wont get into the G36 yet, if you can do without G1000 & GFC700 the A36 leaves you more options avionics wise.

If you get a post-restart 206, consider adding the Flint tanks. They add iirc 150lb useful load, even if you dont take it as fuel. The 206 makes a great 4-seater. I saw a later G1000 model getting loaded up on the ramp a couple of months ago. Family of four in row 1&2, the back seats were taken out leaving room for luggage (under a net) and a blanket for the pooch (midsize dog, maybe 40lbs).

How far do you want to go, and how fast ?
 
0luke1 said:
Toga.

The 206 flies like a truck - it's not like a 172. The Cirrus is going to be too small.
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Wait.....you just recommended a PA32 and then said the 206 flies like a truck? Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?
 
The 206 is cavernous inside. It's like riding in a big chrome Cadillac. Very stable, lands like a dump truck, but very easy to master.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
For a parachute-equipped plane, with great loading, good bet is a 182P model.

With Fresh Pick STC = 150 increase in MGTOW, that will offset the parachute, full fuel (around 5.5 hours), you'll still have 800+ lbs payload. Put a Pponk engine on it to carry the weight around (275 hp). A 182 Q would work too, but they weigh about 30-50 lbs more than a P model.

In the budget range you're in, you might even find a Katmai 182 conversion that fits the bill (it's like having a new plane). Not sure if Katmai will option in the parachute or not.

Jeff
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Can always remove the aft seats and get another 60# or more in useful load in the 206 when flying 4 passengers. Plus the restart 206 are all turbo aren't they?


Only thing I don't like about the new 206s is the screaming high overhaul costs of pretty much everything related to power plant and prop.:hairraise:
 
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Fearless Tower said:
Wait.....you just recommended a PA32 and then said the 206 flies like a truck? Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?
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It is. The PA32 series, especially the Cherokee 6, flies just as truck-like as does the C206.
 
bnt83 said:
Can always remove the aft seats and get another 60# or more in useful load in the 206 when flying 4 passengers. Plus the restart 206 are all turbo aren't they?
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No, you can get an NA model.
 
Saratoga has been looked at.....
Useful is equivalent to a 182. Max 1100, if I'm not mistaken. Most are mid-1000ish.
G1000 206 w/out tip tanks is 1215 and w/is almost 1400.
Toga is pretty but won't haul what a 206 will.

I would love to be able to make a 182 work but there just isn't enough room for cargo. Choice would either be dog or baggage, and while the choice would be simple for me ;), I don't think my family would put up with it. My uncle went from a 206 to a 182 because it was mostly just him and his wife but he regrets losing the useful. He wants his 206 back. Same fuel burn more or less.

The Bonanza is just too cramped for me and I don't like the seating ergonomics. I'm 6'4" and don't want to sit on the floor. Great plane, no doubt, but I also have a place in Idaho and want to do a bit of backcountry flying. Besides, speed isn't that important to me. Would rather go low and slow on occasion. Also, I love being able to sightsee w/the hi wing.

N/A re-start 206s are scarce as hen's teeth...haven't seen one for sale in over a year, so it's a turbo for me. I can still leave the third row in and have room for the dog aft.

Keep it coming..:yesnod:
 
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Sierra Victor said:
Saratoga has been looked at.....
Useful is equivalent to a 182. Max 1100, if I'm not mistaken. Most are mid-1000ish.
G1000 206 w/out tip tanks is 1215 and w/is almost 1400.
Toga is pretty but won't haul what a 206 will.

I would love to be able to make a 182 work but there just isn't enough room for cargo. Choice would either be dog or baggage, and while the choice would be simple for me ;), I don't think my family would put up with it. My uncle went from a 206 to a 182 because it was mostly just him and his wife but he regrets losing the useful. He wants his 206 back. Same fuel burn more or less.

The Bonanza is just too cramped for me and I don't like the seating ergonomics. I'm 6'4" and don't want to sit on the floor. Great plane, no doubt, but I also have a place in Idaho and want to do a bit of backcountry flying. Besides, speed isn't that important to me. Would rather go low and slow on occasion. Also, I love being able to sightsee w/the hi wing.

N/A re-start 206s are scarce as hen's teeth...haven't seen one for sale in over a year, so it's a turbo for me. I can still leave the third row in and have room for the dog aft.

Keep it coming..:yesnod:
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Not sure there is much left to cover lol. Personally I'd get a 210 or P210 and pocket about $90k to $120k. Problems is finding a nice one, they don't come up that often.

I don't think there are any 210 owners here. They mostly hang at cessna.org
 
210 was actually my first wish but after looking at all the ADs and then trying to get insurance (frankly impossible for a low time pilot) I quickly decided against it. Great bird though!!!
Next week I'm flying a 182RG.
 
Sierra Victor said:
Saratoga has been looked at.....
Useful is equivalent to a 182. Max 1100, if I'm not mistaken. Most are mid-1000ish.
G1000 206 w/out tip tanks is 1215 and w/is almost 1400.
Toga is pretty but won't haul what a 206 will.

I would love to be able to make a 182 work but there just isn't enough room for cargo. Choice would either be dog or baggage, and while the choice would be simple for me ;), I don't think my family would put up with it. My uncle went from a 206 to a 182 because it was mostly just him and his wife but he regrets losing the useful. He wants his 206 back. Same fuel burn more or less.

The Bonanza is just too cramped for me and I don't like the seating ergonomics. I'm 6'4" and don't want to sit on the floor. Great plane, no doubt, but I also have a place in Idaho and want to do a bit of backcountry flying. Besides, speed isn't that important to me. Would rather go low and slow on occasion. Also, I love being able to sightsee w/the hi wing.

N/A re-start 206s are scarce as hen's teeth...haven't seen one for sale in over a year, so it's a turbo for me. I can still leave the third row in and have room for the dog aft.

Keep it coming..:yesnod:
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Sounds like 206 good option for you. I looked at them and went from T182T to a 98 toga tc. I entertained a 206 but they were just too much money when I could get nicely equipped toga for over 100k less.

If I was going to do backcountry I would hands down choose the 206. I loved my T182t, but we love our wagon queen family truckster also.

I did consider 210's also however I'm fearful of the costs of maintaining it and parts availability in the future.
 
I was thinking A36, too, but then saw that you don't like the fit from the driver's seat. That puts the 206 back at the top of the list...
 
Kevin87 said:
A 70 pound dog in a cirrus. I don't think it would fit with the 2 kids.
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I had the same thought. I'm thinking either C-206 or PA32 (Cherokee Six/Saratoga) in the fixed gear world, and the big back door of the PA32 would be a big convenience feature. For retractables, I'd be thinking BE36 or PA32R (both coming with big back doors).
 
jhausch said:
I was thinking A36, too, but then saw that you don't like the fit from the driver's seat. That puts the 206 back at the top of the list...
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I thought the same about sliding into the driver's seat. Sliding in on Pipers just drove me crazy. I completely made it a show-stopper until a friend I respected told me to look hard at an A36.

After owning one for a while, I don't know how you can do much to improve on a single-engine plane. We can haul all you are talking about and them some at 172 knots at 16.5gph (ROP) or 160 knots at 12.5gph (LOP)... Plus $350k will get you a really nice A36 (later model, likely fresh engine, probably recent or new avionics, great AP, AC, etc..) Flies like a dream, we routinely knock off trips twice the distance you mention and are not worn-out when we get there. Take out the rear 2 seats and you could play fetch with your dog en-route plus carry everything/everybody else...

So, unless you are dead-set against not having a door on the driver's side, I'd give it another look.
 
The Bonanza is just too cramped for me and I don't like the seating ergonomics. I'm 6'4" and don't want to sit on the floor. Great plane, no doubt, but I also have a place in Idaho and want to do a bit of backcountry flying. Besides, speed isn't that important to me. Would rather go low and slow on occasion. Also, I love being able to sightsee w/the hi wing.
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I am 6'3" and dont see the cockpit as cramped.The seating in the a36 and later v-tails is much better than in the early v-tails. Sometimes upholstery shops inadvertently take away headroom by being too generous with the padding. Once I flew the plane with the middle seats installed in the front row, it takes about 2in of headroom away. That was pretty tight and only worked with a ear-plug type headset.

And no, you are not sitting 'on the floor', that is the Mooney ;-)

As for 'backcountry' flying. If you mean landing on a gravel bar somewhere, the A36 wont be the right plane (neither will be an ACed 350k T206H ). But grass-strips are no problem, the gear is made for that.
 
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Another plug for the 206 from the safety perspective is their landing ability. There are lots of 206 aircraft used as bush planes in Alaska. Getting some specialized instruction on short field operations would add a layer of safety in any emergency situation. Being able to squeeze the most out of your airplane's innate capability is always a good idea. You don't see any Cirrus aircraft working the backcountry. Knowing you can put your plane into a short field if you need to is a great confidence builder. I bought a Maule and now everywhere I look I see viable landing sites. The Maule will also carry a lot of stuff, but I realize it isn't for everyone. I am a very happy camper with my plane though.
 
My 1980 PA32 Toga has a Useful load of 1237#

I use to own a 1977 PA32 Lance that had a useful load of 1412#.
 
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