Following Another Plane

Sorry, but that is bullhockey.

Formation flight is easy: one guy leads, the other flies slightly below (a few feet) and behind the lead. Watch the lead and prepare to break down and away if something goes wrong.

Easy. Easy easy easy easy easy.
There is a lot more to being lead or wing than just getting into the sky and flying up next to the other plane. If you want to fly in a tight formation in a 3 or more ship formation, it gets even more complicated. A two ship formation flight isn't super hard but there are things you should know ahead of time, especially if both planes aren't the same. It should all be thoroughly briefed ahead of time.

Its thinking like that "Its hard!" that keeps getting a pilot certificate from being made more realistically simple to do. Flying is not hard. Nothing about flying is hard. It is EXACTLY like driving a car, except you have one more axis at your disposal to use.

Can you drive on an interstate with traffic a few feet away? What if something unexpected occurs - can you avoid an accident?
I agree that flying isn't that hard. I also agree that we drive in closer proximity to other cars on a daily basis than we usually do while flying airplanes. But would you hop into a race car and hit the track and race with zero experience? I think that's probably a better example.
 
Can you reduce power when flying in the other planes wake? (like geese do?)
 
Not sure I would do the first formation flight at night as a new pilot. Don't rush it get together in the daytime,formation flying can be fun,as you get some practice. It's way cool to call tower and report flight of two.
 
Sorry, but that is bullhockey.

Formation flight is easy: one guy leads, the other flies slightly below (a few feet) and behind the lead. Watch the lead and prepare to break down and away if something goes wrong.

Easy. Easy easy easy easy easy.

Its thinking like that "Its hard!" that keeps getting a pilot certificate from being made more realistically simple to do. Flying is not hard. Nothing about flying is hard. It is EXACTLY like driving a car, except you have one more axis at your disposal to use.
Not bull hockey... Except for SkyHog.

Easy, yes, but potentially tricky as well. Doing it at night is picking it all up by the string so to speak.

So you are doing loose formation at night and suddenly you mate disappears, what do you do? What did your mate do?

You get to your destination and a formation landing is not planned. When do you stop being a flight of 2.... And what is that AWOS freq, let me take a look.

Everything used to be easy, then I became Experienced, not just stoned...
 
Sorry, but that is bullhockey.

Formation flight is easy: one guy leads, the other flies slightly below (a few feet) and behind the lead. Watch the lead and prepare to break down and away if something goes wrong.

Easy. Easy easy easy easy easy.

Its thinking like that "Its hard!" that keeps getting a pilot certificate from being made more realistically simple to do. Flying is not hard. Nothing about flying is hard. It is EXACTLY like driving a car, except you have one more axis at your disposal to use.

Can you drive on an interstate with traffic a few feet away? What if something unexpected occurs - can you avoid an accident?

If so, you can certainly operate an airplane in a similar situation with even more outs at your disposal (it is unlikely that you'll have airplanes all around you, boxing you in if something goes wrong like you would on an interstate).

Whenever I heard this argument, it reminds me of the first day of ground school, where the instructor had to explain that the airplane rolls left by turning the yoke to the left. Come on now, really - is that necessary?

Basic two-ship formation(sit on someones wing) is easy. When you put 2 more airplanes in, do interval take-offs, rejoins, then do wing work and formation aerobatics it is a little more complicated. Shoot, we fly formation in the 10 all the time and guys that have been flying it for years still screw it up.

If flying is easy, why do so many people I fly with suck at it?

Flying formation can't even be compared to driving two cars in close proximity. Airplane isn't going to react as quickly as a car and a car has one big advantage, it can stop.

Instructor has to assume you know absolutely nothing about airplanes, I mean, some people try to use the yoke to steer on the ground :rolleyes2:

Can you reduce power when flying in the other planes wake? (like geese do?)

You don't want to fly in the other planes wake...trust me.
 
Sorry, but that is bullhockey.

Formation flight is easy: one guy leads, the other flies slightly below (a few feet) and behind the lead. Watch the lead and prepare to break down and away if something goes wrong.

Easy. Easy easy easy easy easy.

Its thinking like that "Its hard!" that keeps getting a pilot certificate from being made more realistically simple to do. Flying is not hard. Nothing about flying is hard. It is EXACTLY like driving a car, except you have one more axis at your disposal to use.

Can you drive on an interstate with traffic a few feet away? What if something unexpected occurs - can you avoid an accident?

If so, you can certainly operate an airplane in a similar situation with even more outs at your disposal (it is unlikely that you'll have airplanes all around you, boxing you in if something goes wrong like you would on an interstate).

Whenever I heard this argument, it reminds me of the first day of ground school, where the instructor had to explain that the airplane rolls left by turning the yoke to the left. Come on now, really - is that necessary?

This just isn't true. Flying is easy for you, a certificated pilot. Flying is easy for me, a certificated pilot. Driving is easy for you, a licensed driver. Driving is easy for me, a licensed driver. It's easy NOW. But we both spent a ton of time transitioning from what was an impossible task to an easy skill. Maybe you're a natural and picked this stuff up really quickly and know that. In which case, what you're really doing here is a humblebrag.

Or you really think this is easy for most people. If so, why is the rate of completion for a private only 1/3 of those who start? Why are 80%+ of accidents pilot error? It's a learned skill that most folks have the capability to acquire, like driving. But the numbers say pretty clearly that it is all sorts of not easy.

If you're one of the lucky few for whom this is a natural and intuitive skill, great. But without the rest of us that had to fight our own natures to earn our wings, you wouldn't get to fly, either. There's few enough of us around and the system in which we fly needs critical mass to continue operating for many reasons.

When you tell folks that something is easy and it turns out that it's not, that suggests that it's not for them. They leave, and that's what people have been doing: leaving aviation. And granted, telling someone the exact opposite, that it's impossible will also cause the same thing. But the honest appraisal should get us the best retention and lowest attrition: that it's a challenge, but it's achievable and rewarding.

Because that's exactly what it is. :yes:

PS: The roll thing? Ask some non-aviation folks what the turning the yoke will do and they'll say that it turns the plane. Understand that turns to them means turns like a car, yaw. Explaining that it rolls the plane and how a roll turns a plane is actually non-intuitive for most.
 
...I'm just going to let him take off, give him some time, and then follow behind.
That's what I'd do, stagger the takeoff times by five minutes and watch for other traffic as usual. The more focused you are on following somebody, the less you're watching out for the rest of us. The first pilot can place the dinner order.

dtuuri
 
Formation flight is easy: one guy leads, the other flies slightly below (a few feet) and behind the lead.
...

It is EXACTLY like driving a car, except you have one more axis at your disposal to use.
Yeah, and roller skating is easy too. Same thing, if you can drive a car and walk you should be able to skate like Gene Kelly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aus1PA5-SyI

Next time you're in Ohio, drop by and lace up! Let's roll! :)

dtuuri
 
It should all be thoroughly briefed ahead of time.


I think after reading this whole thread this is the least mentioned and the most important. It's the biggest mistake beginner formation flying pilots make. Not briefing. It's hard to do a proper formation briefing if you've never done one. Chicken and egg problem that only experience fixes.

So you are doing loose formation at night and suddenly you mate disappears, what do you do? What did your mate do?



You get to your destination and a formation landing is not planned. When do you stop being a flight of 2.... And what is that AWOS freq, let me take a look.



Everything used to be easy, then I became Experienced, not just stoned...


Two good examples of stuff covered in a proper briefing.

I know the OP has already said they're just going to follow and not fly formation.
 
That's what I'd do, stagger the takeoff times by five minutes and watch for other traffic as usual. The more focused you are on following somebody, the less you're watching out for the rest of us. The first pilot can place the dinner order.

dtuuri

For several years, I routinely flew with up to 5 planes for weekend meals. We took off fastest plane first, and each got flight following. There was no waiting between takeoffs, any longer than required for the next plane to back taxi. Separation occurred naturally. The first to arrive just got a table for everyone. No "formation" or "flight of two" stuff, just several of us going to the same place. We did sometimes talk on 122.75 to confirm other's location.
 
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