Flying yourself on business

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sbonek

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Steve Bonek
I've got a business trip coming up, and would prefer to fly rather than drive. The previous time I made this trip, I made the mistake of asking if it was ok if I flew (and the answer was a definitive NO), rather than just doing it and expensing the mileage.

What's been everyone's experience in regards to this. Do you usually get permission, or just do it and expense the mileage.

This is somewhat complicated by the fact that I rent, rather than own. Or maybe that doesn't complicate it at all, not really sure.

thoughts?
 
I do it and expense the miles. I did look at the SOP and nothing in there about not being able to fly myself, therefore it must be ok.
 
Since you already asked, and were told no, the company can fire you if you fly on company time/business -- that's called insubordination and you have no recourse in law. Further, if you fly and then submit a falsified expense report saying you drove, and they find out, they can fire you for the falsified report as well as insubordination. My only advice to you is either to pursue the issue of obtaining permission or to bite the bullet and drive.

If you want to get permission, you'll have to find out who made the "no" decision, and why, and proceed accordingly. Most likely it's a liability issue, and you'll need to get them to look into what their corporate policy actually does/does not cover, and the cost/benefit ratio of adding coverage if necessary. That would mean examining time savings and the ability to avoid extra days in transit. You will have a lot of work putting that all together, but it might be worth it.
 
The company I worked for at one time did not have a policy regarding personal aircraft and would accept mileage on expense reports until they lost 2 executives in a Cessna Centurion and placed a ban the practice. It didn't matter to them I could easily save the cost of 2 nights accomodations (and meals) for most trips.
 
Ron Levy said:
Since you already asked, and were told no, the company can fire you if you fly on company time/business -- that's called insubordination and you have no recourse in law. Further, if you fly and then submit a falsified expense report saying you drove, and they find out, they can fire you for the falsified report as well as insubordination. My only advice to you is either to pursue the issue of obtaining permission or to bite the bullet and drive.
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That's kind of what I was thinking as well. I felt I needed to ask, but then regretted it. However, I would hate to lose my job over it.


Ron Levy said:
If you want to get permission, you'll have to find out who made the "no" decision, and why, and proceed accordingly. Most likely it's a liability issue, and you'll need to get them to look into what their corporate policy actually does/does not cover, and the cost/benefit ratio of adding coverage if necessary. That would mean examining time savings and the ability to avoid extra days in transit. You will have a lot of work putting that all together, but it might be worth it.
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Yes, it was because of liability and came directly from the President. We are in the process of going through a merger, so my only hope is that after the merger it may be ok'ed at that point. When I asked, the company doesn't have a policy on it since it never came up before.
 
Post-merger I would say forget about it then too. Since when has a merger ever become LESS bureaucratic?
 
N2212R said:
Post-merger I would say forget about it then too. Since when has a merger ever become LESS bureaucratic?
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good point... but it's worth a shot. The location I need to drive to is at the company we are going to be merging with, and the thought of spending 3 hours in the car and having to stay in a hotel isn't nearly as apealing as flying up in the morning, and then flying back in the late afternoon.
 
I do alot of traveling for business and just got my PPL, My company said I can't get reimbursed for flying because then they would be liable but we negotiated and now I am aloud to fly for work but cannot submit for any reimbursements, and can't carry any customers
 
Company no personal flying policies are (rightly or wrongly) based on two concerns.

One is the liability that we usually think about - if there's an accident that's the pilot's fault, and the pilot was on company business, the company can be sued over it - and many business general liability policies will exclude the use of personal aircraft.

The second one is workers compensation liability. When an employee is on company business and is injured, the company's workers compensation insurance pays - regardless of whether anyone was at fault or not. Those policies will often exclude use of personal aircraft.

So, when you go behind your company's back, in addition to Ron's comment about possible consequences, you also have to consider to what degree you are the kind of person who forces others to assume risks they don't want to assume so that you can do what you want.

Negotiating a deal is about (a) learning whether the decision is in fact insurance-based and (b) convincing them that the risk is acceptable.
 
Ron Levy said:
Since you already asked, and were told no, the company can fire you if...
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Eh, in CA, they can fire you for just about anything...

But back on topic. I've done it a few times, and just don't ask. I'd believe that just about any company around will tell you NO for insurance reasons. That said, I would still do it. Buy a Southwest ticket, expense it, return for the credit. Or just expense the mileage as stated before.

My CFII got nailed flying himself when he called in earlier than expected. They put 2 + 2 together, and told him NO. A few weeks later the CEO had to be somewhere in 2 hours, they came to him for help. A few minutes later, the insurance policy was revised and GA aircraft became an acceptable travel method.
 
njflyer said:
I do alot of traveling for business and just got my PPL, My company said I can't get reimbursed for flying because then they would be liable but we negotiated and now I am aloud to fly for work but cannot submit for any reimbursements, and can't carry any customers
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I'm no lawyer but I doubt an employee not being reimbursed is going to limit the corporate liability.

Len
 
My company has no policy regarding it since I am the only pilot. LOL
You might try seeing the President personally and explain the 1 hour flight time vx the 3 hour drive and how you can be back to work that day.
Also, you might look into a "hold harmless" letter for the Work Comp part of it, that may help convince them.

Mark B
 
I'm no lawyer either, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal for an employee to waive his workman's comp rights. And I agree with Capt Kirk that whether or not the employee is reimbursed won't affect the company's liability.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The second one is workers compensation liability. When an employee is on company business and is injured, the company's workers compensation insurance pays - regardless of whether anyone was at fault or not. Those policies will often exclude use of personal aircraft.
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And quite often the company's "risk manager" (usually a bean counter) will simply assume that the policies they have exclude private plane travel and don't actually bother checking the policies. This was the case where I work and when the new CEO told the risk manager (VP of finance) to look into it, he found that our policies did cover private airplane travel as long as the pilot was at least commercially rated on the general liability and no restrictions at all on the worker's comp.
 
My company prohibits GA, except for certain, specified by tail number, aircraft. Funny thing, those tail numbers happen to line up with our shuttle fleet. And, the same exceptions are in our company paid life insurance. Really frustrating when it's clear and a million, the shuttle is full and I could fly in 45 minutes what is going to take me 2 1/2 hours to drive.
 
njflyer said:
I do alot of traveling for business and just got my PPL, My company said I can't get reimbursed for flying because then they would be liable but we negotiated and now I am aloud to fly for work but cannot submit for any reimbursements, and can't carry any customers
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Good for you, but I don't think much of the decision making of the person who permitted this.

You are flying on business. Should you crash into the proverbial school bus, your company will be found liable. I don't think "no compensation" exonerates the company particularly when they know about your flying on their business.

Even your Widow could hose 'em.

-Skip
 
lancefisher said:
And quite often the company's "risk manager" (usually a bean counter) will simply assume that the policies they have exclude private plane travel and don't actually bother checking the policies. This was the case where I work and when the new CEO told the risk manager (VP of finance) to look into it, he found that our policies did cover private airplane travel as long as the pilot was at least commercially rated on the general liability and no restrictions at all on the worker's comp.
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Ah, yes, my favorite corporate story. The small company that employed me was purchased by Coroprate America, a wholy owned subsidiary of a British company. Corporate America had an evil corporate attorney who dispised me and went out of her way to squash the company flying I had done since day one with the previous owner's/president's blessings. "Insurance doesn't cover it" was the excuse/reason. One day the British parent company's chairman (Cedric, IIRC) and the British parent company's top corporate lawyer (advisor to the chairman) walked into my office and asked if I could fly them to SFO since they had missed the last commuter flight out of Sacramento and they were going to miss their Concord connection at JFK if they didn't make the SFO flight. I explained about corporate insurance issues, etc. The lawyer started laughing. "You really think we'd leave the company uninusured if you ignored the edict and flew yourself? Of course we have insurance should you fly yourself." He then proceeded to call the wicked US attorney and told her (paraphrse, I wish I had the conversation on tape), "Ed tells me that we don't have insurance should he fly himself on business. Uh, huh, uh, huh. Well, Ed is going to fly Sedric and me to SFO in about 15 minutes...I suggest you take care of whatever problems you think might exist." And that's what I did, or, I should say, what Cedric did--turned out he was a budding student pilot--Cedric flew us to SFO, all I did was the landing.

Needless to say, I was even less popular the next day.
 
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Great story Ed. "Risk Manager" is the wrong title. It should be "Avoid All Risk at All Times and Plan for the Worst Case Sencario at All Costs Manager".
 
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