Flying with New Borns

[Tom-D]

You have a C-170 rear bench seat typical of the type. Front seats the same way pretty much stock.

You want to carry a 3 year old and a new born, wife and self as pilot.

What's the safest, easiest, way to do that?

Pilot and wife in the front two seats ---- OR--- ?

 

[Craig]

Depends on the ability to secure the kiddie seat for the littlest one.

 

[JCranford]

Velcro

 

[Rushie]

Depends. Generally mom would want to be in the back with the newborn unless it's a very short flight. That argues for putting the three yr old in the right seat. However if he/she is inclined to kick the yoke (assuming in a car seat) or play with yoke, mixture, etc (assuming not) then both kids should be in the back. On the other hand if three year old is jealous and wants to suffocate newborn, front is better.

Can the wife be a pinch hitter and/or function as good right seat help? If so right seat for her. Even better if three year old can do basic newborn fixes such as replace a fallen pacifier into mouth. I am assuming newborn is facing rear, I don't think the carseat is legal otherwise. You probably have the mirror thing set up in your wife's car but if not in the plane your wife will feel uncomfortable not seeing the baby's face if she is up front.

What it really boils down to is this: if the newborn doesn't sleep the whole flight (odds are he will but you never know) can your wife stand the screaming if she is up front and can't remove him/her from the seat to nurse? If bottle fed maybe three year old can hold a bottle but there's the whole burp and spit up thing - bottle feeding in a car seat not ideal. Breast feeding in a car seat even less, don't ask me how I know.

There's one more thing I almost forgot, newborn necks are weak and in rear facing position the head may flop forward during acceleration and climb out. Can three year old be relied upon to gently keep his head in place? Oh, and this would be with newborn's hearing protection headset in place?

In retrospect if I had it to do all over again I would let dad and three year old have special airplane "lessons" while I stay home with newborn.

Hope this helps!

 

[mscard88]

I rigged something up in the backseat of a 172 for the baby when I flew my wife and 6 month old from NJ to AL a long time ago. Pretty sure wife was up front and our baby was in the back. That was about 3 three hour legs. Then back to NJ a week or two later. Don't recall any big problems, other than me getting lost over N GA.

 

[Rushie]

I rigged something up in the backseat of a 172 for the baby when I flew my wife and 6 month old from NJ to AL a long time ago. Pretty sure wife was up front and our baby was in the back. That was about 3 three hour legs. Then back to NJ a week or two later. Don't recall any big problems, other than me getting lost over N GA.

Yep 3 hour legs about the limit. Six months much better than newborn, neck is strong and more regular feeding schedule.

 

[bflynn]

It depends...first kid or later?

If it's the first kid, the mother will have to be in the back with the baby and don't forget to weigh all the baby gear for W&B - it will weigh more than the baby. Maybe if the mother can reach between the seats and do something, she can sit in the front. If it's a second or later kid, some duct tape will work. I don't want to be cruel to first time parents. We were ones once too and we over did it, just like all first time parents do.

The baby will be oblivious unless you're getting higher up and then might get a little fussy for ears.

 

[Rushie]

It depends...first kid or later?

If it's the first kid, the mother will have to be in the back with the baby and don't forget to weigh all the baby gear for W&B - it will weigh more than the baby. Maybe if the mother can reach between the seats and do something, she can sit in the front. If it's a second or later kid, some duct tape will work. I don't want to be cruel to first time parents. We were ones once too and we over did it, just like all first time parents do.

The baby will be oblivious unless you're getting higher up and then might get a little fussy for ears.

Bill Cosby said you're not a true parent until you have at least two. Duct tape LOL!

 

[mscard88]

Yep 3 hour legs about the limit. Six months much better than newborn, neck is strong and more regular feeding schedule.

It was a 172 so 3 hours was my limit anyway as I wanted at least an hour of reserve. Came in handy when I got lost in N Ga looking for my planned fuel stop. This was in '76 so no GPS lol. Wife said our daughter did choke on a cookie once, forgot about that. But it was handled.

 

[Rushie]

It was a 172 so 3 hours was my limit anyway as I wanted at least an hour of reserve. Came in handy when I got lost in N Ga looking for my planned fuel stop. This was in '76 so no GPS lol. Wife said our daughter did choke on a cookie once, forgot about that. But it was handled.

Our first plane with the kids was a 172 too although despite my aforementioned advice we never actually flew them as newborns. We didn't have it for the first and for the second I let dad take the older one, but even so I waited till he had tons of hours and probably even the IR. When we did start flying with them a lot they were both out of car seats and I always sat right seat. I could fly the 172 myself so always made myself the backup pilot in case hubby got incapacitated, and I was hyper vigilant about looking for traffic whenever we were VMC.

I think I might be a little overboard with the safety obsession which is why our kids survived despite our extremely dangerous home with the non-childproof outlets and the blind cords and the toilets that didn't lock shut.

 

[mscard88]

I think I might be a little overboard with the safety obsession which is why our kids survived despite our extremely dangerous home with the non-childproof outlets and the blind cords and the toilets that didn't lock shut.

Nah, just concerned for your children's safety. Not a thing wrong with that Rushie.

 

[Tom-D]

I don't think a new born will be OK in a car seat. Unless those baby carrier thingies are considered a car seat.

When you have a 3-4 year old, the new born isn't usually the first child.

My advice was Mama in back with the new born, 4 year old in front right.

 

[Ted]

Tom, I'd tend to agree with your suggestion of newborn in back and 4 year old in the right seat. The newborn will require a lot of attention. When we flew with our kids when they were newborns, Laurie sat in back with them. Of course we were in the 310 so we didn't need to have one of them up front, since the 310 was a 6-seater. What's important is making sure the 4 year old understands what he/she can and cannot do - specifically "DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING unless daddy says it's ok." My kids have been pretty good about this, especially when given something to do (draw, etc.).

One of my girls (3.5) sat up front with me for a short flight in the MU-2, she loved it.

 

[Craig]

Good friend's first kid made a trip in their Fairchild, 3 weeks after birth. Mamma in the back cockpit with the baby in a chest carrier.
As to baby seats, yes, there are ones for newborns that are flight approved, and they go in with the crumb snatcher facing to the rear, and laid at a low angle.

Here is a quick read on little ones in a GA plane: https://medium.com/usawithus/babys-first-ga-flight-5-fears-and-realities-8f7fb3f01466

 

[JCranford]

Depends. Generally mom would want to be in the back with the newborn unless it's a very short flight. That argues for putting the three yr old in the right seat. However if he/she is inclined to kick the yoke (assuming in a car seat) or play with yoke, mixture, etc (assuming not) then both kids should be in the back. On the other hand if three year old is jealous and wants to suffocate newborn, front is better.

Can the wife be a pinch hitter and/or function as good right seat help? If so right seat for her. Even better if three year old can do basic newborn fixes such as replace a fallen pacifier into mouth. I am assuming newborn is facing rear, I don't think the carseat is legal otherwise. You probably have the mirror thing set up in your wife's car but if not in the plane your wife will feel uncomfortable not seeing the baby's face if she is up front.

What it really boils down to is this: if the newborn doesn't sleep the whole flight (odds are he will but you never know) can your wife stand the screaming if she is up front and can't remove him/her from the seat to nurse? If bottle fed maybe three year old can hold a bottle but there's the whole burp and spit up thing - bottle feeding in a car seat not ideal. Breast feeding in a car seat even less, don't ask me how I know.

There's one more thing I almost forgot, newborn necks are weak and in rear facing position the head may flop forward during acceleration and climb out. Can three year old be relied upon to gently keep his head in place? Oh, and this would be with newborn's hearing protection headset in place?

In retrospect if I had it to do all over again I would let dad and three year old have special airplane "lessons" while I stay home with newborn.

Hope this helps!

Wow, you make flying with kids sound GREAT!

 

[sferguson524]

Also, nothing i saw mentioned here, make sure the baby has a pacifier or a bottle during climb and descent to aid with equalization. Did the NV to CA drive a LOT with my son when he was an infant.. Some of those mountains made him VERY miserable if he didn't have the binky or the bottle

 

[Timbeck2]

Tom, I'd tend to agree with your suggestion of newborn in back and 4 year old in the right seat. The newborn will require a lot of attention. When we flew with our kids when they were newborns, Laurie sat in back with them. Of course we were in the 310 so we didn't need to have one of them up front, since the 310 was a 6-seater. What's important is making sure the 4 year old understands what he/she can and cannot do - specifically "DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING unless daddy says it's ok." My kids have been pretty good about this, especially when given something to do (draw, etc.).

One of my girls (3.5) sat up front with me for a short flight in the MU-2, she loved it.

Love that picture man! What a cutie....the little girl, not the hippie in the driver's seat.

 

[Ted]

Love that picture man! What a cutie....the little girl, not the hippie in the driver's seat.

Thanks

She's a real firecracker. Sweet and stubborn like her mom, and she's a great driver already, runs her little Power Wheels all over the property. She helps me with working on the cars and wants to help build the Cobra replica.

 

[Timbeck2]

Enjoy her while you can Ted because tomorrow, she will be off to college. It happens quick.

 

[Tom-D]

One of my girls (3.5) sat up front with me for a short flight in the MU-2, she loved it.

Wondering, why you have a head set on, and she doesen't

 

[Ted]

Enjoy her while you can Ted because tomorrow, she will be off to college. It happens quick.

Oh I know. Part of why I want to buy and build the kit with the kids.

Back in May we were on a family vacation and I had this sinking realization that she won't always be 3. Of course, we all know that our kids will grow up, but some days it hits us more than others.

Wondering, why you have a head set on, and she doesen't

Once we got in and engines going I realized there was only one headset in the plane. My fault. It was a <10 minute flight to the next airport and the MU-2 is actually not that bad on volume up front. If we had been going somewhere far I would've shut down and gotten her a headset. It didn't bother her.

 

[MIFlyer]

Oh I know. Part of why I want to buy and build the kit with the kids.

Back in May we were on a family vacation and I had this sinking realization that she won't always be 3. Of course, we all know that our kids will grow up, but some days it hits us more than others.



Once we got in and engines going I realized there was only one headset in the plane. My fault. It was a <10 minute flight to the next airport and the MU-2 is actually not that bad on volume up front. If we had been going somewhere far I would've shut down and gotten her a headset. It didn't bother her.

On this, any recos for kids headsets. They want to listen to a movie and I want them to have hearing protection.

Maybe just qc series for them and forget about talking to them?

They don’t want to keep aviation headsets on and we don’t have enough anyway


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Ted]

On this, any recos for kids headsets. They want to listen to a movie and I want them to have hearing protection.

Maybe just qc series for them and forget about talking to them?

They don’t want to keep aviation headsets on and we don’t have enough anyway

The best thing you can do (if you can pull it off) is a plane quiet enough that they don't need headsets. In the 414 with the MT props, they were able to watch their shows without headsets on quite comfortably.

I forget the ages of your kids, but I think they're similar to the ages of mine? (5.5 and 3.5) They actually are at the point where they'll wear aviation headsets just fine normally, but the "Crew Isolate" button is used on the audio panel liberally.

 

[James331]

Leave the crotch fruit at home, honestly at that age they are going to have lower mental abilities compared to a dog and far worse bowel control, would you take senile dog that couldn’t crontrol it’s bowels in your plane?

Wait till they are old enough to be more human and then introduce them to the plane, at their current age they won’t get anything out of it anywho

 

[Ted]

Leave the crotch fruit at home, honestly at that age they are going to have lower mental abilities compared to a dog and far worse bowel control, would you take senile dog that couldn’t crontrol it’s bowels in your plane?

Wait till they are old enough to be more human and then introduce them to the plane, at their current age they won’t get anything out of it anywho

Couldn't disagree with you more.

 

[MIFlyer]

Couldn't disagree with you more.

plus, i use the plane as a time machine.

last night went back and forth to grandma's to pick up one kid. 3 people ride down to her airport, 4 people back home.

40 minutes flight time each way in the 182 (1 hr hobbs), vs 4 hours down and 2 hours back on I5.

block time flying:
30 minutes house to airport
30 minutes preflight, board, taxi, runup and departure
40 minutes flight time
1 minutes taxi/shutdown (small airport)
1:41 down (vs 4 hours)

return:
5 minute taxi
40 minute flight
15 minute secure, deplane, document (record times/securing checklists/etc)
20 minute drive home
1:20 vs 2 hours

total flying 3:01
total driving 6 hours

3 hour savings via flying, and i got two more hours in the logbook, both of them XC PIC, plus saw the sun set over the sea on the way home.

 

[MIFlyer]

The best thing you can do (if you can pull it off) is a plane quiet enough that they don't need headsets. In the 414 with the MT props, they were able to watch their shows without headsets on quite comfortably.

I forget the ages of your kids, but I think they're similar to the ages of mine? (5.5 and 3.5) They actually are at the point where they'll wear aviation headsets just fine normally, but the "Crew Isolate" button is used on the audio panel liberally.

yes, they're both 6. One took one off halfway, but the 182 isn't terribly loud when it's throttled back so i wasn't that worried about it.

I want them to be able to hear the show though on longer trips when we do those next year. How loud was the Aztec. 414 is way beyond me right now

 

[N3368K]

Just don't leave an unattended toddler in the backseat.

My folks had a C-170 my mom flew extensively. One day she took a young boy for a ride with him strapped in the back seat. She had been flying for several minutes when the engine sputtered and died. Fortunately, she had seen the young boy suddenly jump back up into the seat right before the engine quit. She looked down to find the fuel valve in the "OFF" position.

I don't recall how often she told that story, but it was frequent, especially when I was around...

 

[Ted]

I want them to be able to hear the show though on longer trips when we do those next year. How loud was the Aztec. 414 is way beyond me right now

My Aztec I think was relatively loud, enough so that you wanted a headset, but it wasn't terrible. A lot of it was just the vibrations because I never had the props dynamically balanced. You'd be surprised how much a good dynamic balance can quiet things down. I think you could make one quieter than I had it with not a ton of effort. And, of course, the altitude you fly at matters as well. Higher altitude = lower IAS = less wind noise.

I believe Hartzell has an STC for quieter props, and I bet MT would do one if you called them up (and discount the props if they let you use your plane... trip to Florida?).

 

[Ted]

plus, i use the plane as a time machine.

last night went back and forth to grandma's to pick up one kid. 3 people ride down to her airport, 4 people back home.

40 minutes flight time each way in the 182 (1 hr hobbs), vs 4 hours down and 2 hours back on I5.

block time flying:
30 minutes house to airport
30 minutes preflight, board, taxi, runup and departure
40 minutes flight time
1 minutes taxi/shutdown (small airport)
1:41 down (vs 4 hours)

return:
5 minute taxi
40 minute flight
15 minute secure, deplane, document (record times/securing checklists/etc)
20 minute drive home
1:20 vs 2 hours

total flying 3:01
total driving 6 hours

3 hour savings via flying, and i got two more hours in the logbook, both of them XC PIC, plus saw the sun set over the sea on the way home.

Our son has been flying since he was one week old, the girls probably since they were about a month - I forget the exact ages. In our case, routes to get to the people we want to see are a real pain via airlines. So, we flew. Traveling with kids can be a real pain no matter how you slice it, but doing it GA is great. Our kids enjoy flying and get excited about coming along on trips, and they all want to come save puppies with daddy. Well, that'll happen, but the trip has to be one short enough where one of them won't get super bored, and my trips are usually very long, even in the MU-2.

One of my coworkers recently did a trip in a Bonanza he rents to the east coast from here in middle America. He was asking me about it beforehand, and I pointed out that you might not enjoy every second of it while it's happening, but you'll be glad you did it.