Flying to Mexico? Read this.

Jay Honeck

Jay Honeck

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
11,571
Location
Ingleside, TX
Display Name
Display name:
Jay Honeck
Things are looking worse...

For Immediate Release
U.S. Pilot’s Aviation Nightmare in Mexico
Think Twice About Flying Your Plane to Mexico

Imagine flying your private plane to Mexico to spend tourism dollars, landing at Cancun, immediately having your plane impounded and then threatened with a fine of $5,000 to $25,000! And then sitting around for six days waiting to hear from Mexican Civil Aviation authorities (DGAC) if and when your plane can fly back to the U.S.! Not exactly an ideal vacation.

The “N” registered Cessna 210 with husband and wife on board was flying from a visit in Belize to meet friends in Cancun. The pilot had checked NOTAMS, filed a Mexican APIS notifying his arrival from Belize to Cancun, filed an international IFR flight plan which was accepted by Belize and Mexico, was in constant radio contact with Belize and Mexican ATC including Cancun approach and was cleared to land by the Cancun tower. As soon as he landed, Mexican civil aviation officials (DGAC) confiscated his aircraft.

Six days later, following a six hour meeting (in Spanish) with DGAC officials in Cancun (“how much do you want to pay?”) he received his first communication from DGAC headquarters in Mexico City - “You violated Mexican law. The fine is US$1,000.” On day seven it took over five hours to process the penalty payment and to receive clearance to depart.

The private pilot followed all the international civil aviation procedures for flying in the Caribbean. Mexico’s response can only be characterized as extreme. It was extreme in relation to a minor non-safety, non-security infraction of a regulation which the vast majority of private U.S. pilots could not find even if they were told it existed. It was extreme given the pilot’s APIS notification of arrival, successful filing of an international flight plan and clearance to land by Mexican civil aviation who were clearly aware that he was arriving from Belize. His plane was immediately impounded as soon as he landed. His aircraft was refused takeoff clearance for an entire week waiting for the DGAC legal department to make a simple decision about his status. He was fined US$1,000. Attempts to reason with Civil Aviation officials in Mexico city was fruitless. Could this really happen in today’s world? The answer is “yes.”

According to Caribbean Flying Adventures, the leading pilot’s guide for the Caribbean, “Other Caribbean destinations aggressively compete for U.S. private aviation tourism dollars. Not so Mexican Civil Aviation authorities. Their extreme response to this completely unintentional and minor infraction will cause thousands of U.S. private pilots to think twice about flying their planes to Mexico.”
Lesson learned? Think seriously about Flying your private aircraft to Mexico. There could be other hidden regulations that will earn you an involuntary week in Mexico accompanied by fines of up to $25,000 depending on your negotiating skills. It should also be mentioned that there were several hints about paying local DGAC officials to make the whole thing go away. The pilot was concerned that a bribe might land him in even more trouble and he refused to pay. Mistake? That’s not the point. This unacceptable treatment has no place in the 21st century world of international civil aviation. The good news is you will never be treated like this anywhere else in the entire Caribbean. Only in Mexico. For more details about this aviation nightmare, read on.

DGAC: You violated our laws. The company should have known better.
Pilot: We’re not a company. I am a private pilot in a small single engine aircraft and would not have a clue where to find Mexican regulations and would not understand them even if I found them since I do not speak Spanish. Like thousands of other private pilots, I assumed that all I needed to know would be available in English in the NOTAMS, or in response to my APIS submission, or in acceptance or rejection of my flight plan or as directed by ATC.
DGAC: Belize should have never accepted your flight plan. It’s their fault.
Pilot: Mexico accepted our flight plan also. Why did Cancun tower clear me to land?
DGAC: Our ATC does not know who has or does not have a permit to land in Cancun.
Pilot: But your DGAC officials on the ground at Cancun obviously knew that I was arriving from Belize and impounded my plan as soon as I landed. Why could they have not given Cancun approach or Cancun tower a heads up to warn us to land at nearby Cozumel? It almost seems like entrapment.
DGAC: you need to respect our laws.
Pilot: Could you please publish a NOTAM warning pilots not to land at Cancun when coming from the South; and instruct DGAC officials on the ground at Cancun who are clearly monitoring traffic from the south to remind small GA aircraft by radio that they need to land at Cozumel rather than clearing them to land at Cancun and then impounding their aircraft. That would be the reasonable and decent thing to do. Otherwise, your actions can only be construed as “entrapment.”
DGAC: you need to respect our laws. You are welcome to visit our offices in Mexico City to learn about our laws (this from the DGAC legal department)

Thinking about flying your plane to Mexico to spend your tourism dollars? Think again.

Follow up inquiries to Jim Parker at CaribbeanFlyingAdventures
Jim@CaribbeanFlyingAdventures.com
305-667-6282

For details go to:
www.CaribbeanFlyingAdventures.com
or contact Jim Parker
305-667-6282
Jim@CaribbeanFlyingAdventures.com
 
Dude, it's Mexico, home of corruption and shady dealings.
 
Not that I ever cared to visit that garbage dump anyway.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Not that I ever cared to visit that garbage dump anyway.
Click to expand...

Meh, it's fun, Ensanada and the like, I just drive a low profile car, carry some cash and don't take crap. Never had a problem
 
What would happen if you flew from Mexico into the US and landed at an airport that was not a port of entry?

Would the authorities accept an ATC clearance as an excuse?
 
The $64,000 question I have is would something similar to this still happen if the you HAD to land somewhere other than Cozumel or Tapachula due to weather or some other bonna-fide emergency like smoke in the cabin??!!

Dealing with an in-flight emergency is bad enough anywhere, but to be pressured to fly on unsafely due to the threat of a large fine is beyond reprehensible.

Thank God I have NO interest in flying to any of these $h!thole places. I'll stick with the Bahamas and Canada, thank you very much!!
 
beestforwardspeed said:
The $64,000 question I have is would something similar to this still happen if the you HAD to land somewhere other than Cozumel or Tapachula due to weather or some other bonna-fide emergency like smoke in the cabin??!!

Dealing with an in-flight emergency is bad enough anywhere, but to be pressured to fly on unsafely due to the threat of a large fine is beyond reprehensible.

Thank God I have NO interest in flying to any of these $h!thole places. I'll stick with the Bahamas and Canada, thank you very much!!
Click to expand...


Dude, the OP was talking about cancun, quite a few places in the US qualify as a chit hole way before Cancun MX
 
MAKG1 said:
What would happen if you flew from Mexico into the US and landed at an airport that was not a port of entry?

Would the authorities accept an ATC clearance as an excuse?
Click to expand...

Cancun, MMUN, is a port of entry. The proper question might be: What would happen if you didn't land at the first available port of entry or the designated port of entry for a particular origin?

Anyway, I do have experience that a domestic (non-port of entry) airport will turn you away in Mexico if it is not legal for you to land there. Dunno what happened in Cancun.
 
This is really sad to hear. One of the formative experiences of my life was a long motorcycle trip through Mexico, from Tijuana to the Mexican Caribbean. I would love to fly back, but won't if I have to worry about these sorts of shenanigans.
 
All Mexican tourist areas are beautiful.... Until you go beyond the tourist area. Than that are all shatholes.
 
I think there's a rule that when arriving from the _south_ you can only use one AOE (for some reason).
 
dans2992 said:
I think there's a rule that when arriving from the _south_ you can only use one AOE (for some reason).
Click to expand...

Correct.


http://www.nbaa.org/ops/intl/car/200802-mexican-customs-req.php
Mexican Customs Requirement for GA Operators

Effective February 1, 2008, all GA aircraft operating into Mexico from the Caribbean, Central America, and South America will have to stop in Cozumel (MMCZ) or Tapachula (MMTP) for illegal substance inspections. Countries that are considered to be within the Caribbean zone are Bermuda, the Bahamas, Puerto Rico, and the US Virgin Islands. While operators may stop at either MMCZ or MMTP, Mexico is recommending Cozumel (MMCZ) due to better customs facilities at that location.
 
Belize is not on that list. Also the ICAO NOTAM uses the word 'should', as opposed to must, shall, or will.

Not that any of this stuff matters, it's just a mordida system at work anyway...
 
Yep. Doesn't surprise me. I actually expected the gratuitous ding to come from our CBP, but the point remains.

Not worth the trouble. Take the tube instead. Drive across the border? Hell naw. Méjico can suck it. I grew up in the Caribbean, I'm not impressed by Mexican tourism.
 
The thing is: Why Mexico?

You can go to any number of other islands with better beaches and safer legal systems. If you lack the fuel to overfly Mexico then perhaps you'd best take the airlines. Even THEY have problems once in a while with Mexican paperwork.

The country has ALWAYS a den of thieves. It has gotten worse since the officials are regularly bribed by the cartels - so they believe that the only way to do business is with plata.

The latest scam is to find Americans driving rental cars, and ding them for some minor infraction. Then seize their drivers license and tell them a) they can pick it up at the polizia stazione tomorrow - or - b) pay a fine of whatever cash you have in your pocket right now. . . . .

I know people who travel for business who travel with two or three fake licenses so they can give one up when stopped.
 
I'm older and used to visit Mexico often. Since the 1980's, it has gotten into the "mordida" (bribe) state. If you get pulled over by a cop, you can pretty much get out of the problem by "asking" them if they'll take care of/pay the ticket for you down at their HQ while handing them a $20 spot.

I live 5 miles from Mexico and wouldn't land their even in an emergency (the river levee works and is still U.S.).
 
Being raised near the border, I used to visit Mexico a lot. My dad and I would go down and fish for a day, or wknd, we could fly down to Ensenada and land on a little strip and never worry. I've been all over Mexico for many decades. Then, in about 1994, I started seeing the erosion of respect for NorteAmericanos in many places I used to visit. When I say respect, I really mean deference to US citizens because we spend money there, and not actual respect, which is a cornerstone of most citizens in Mexico. Generally speaking, Mexican people are polite, and friendly.

By 1996, I'd had enough. I was stopped twice and shook down on my last visit with my family. My favorite shake down was at the border of the states between the east coast down by Quintana Roo and Chiapas. I got to the little security border shack with a couple of bored Mexican soldiers. I stopped and chatted with them for a bit, and they said they had to inspect the car. Ok, no prob, I have nothing to hide. So, they go in my foam cooler and find some deli sliced ham I bought in Chetumal to make sandwiches for the kids(age 5 & 4). You would have thought I was smuggling heroin or something. They got all agitated, and the gist of it was that because of some kind of pig virus going around, there could be no importation of pigs to Chiapas.

My Spanish isn't that great but I looked at this kid and said 'Seroso?' Yup, he was serious. I said fine, we backed up about 100', I got out the bread, mustard, ham, and cheese and we proceeded to have lunch right there at the state border. Of course, they thought I was just going to hand them the half kilo of sliced ham to take home and eat. Well - eff that.

That's when I knew for certain that the entire system was gone to hell. Your loss Mexico. Next year I took the kids to Cayman, and the year after that was out to Bahamas.
 
Not a surprise at all.
A friend of mine flies a jet to Mexico at least twice a month and every time he goes there, he shares his horror stories of incompetence, bribery, mismanagement and system corruption in general.

I assume it also depends on which destination you visit (some might be actually open-minded and welcome tourism and influx of American dollars) but I do not care to travel there and find out the hard way.
 
docmirror said:
Being raised near the border, I used to visit Mexico a lot. My dad and I would go down and fish for a day, or wknd, we could fly down to Ensenada and land on a little strip and never worry. I've been all over Mexico for many decades. Then, in about 1994, I started seeing .
Click to expand...

I've never flown my AC there, but have been all over Mexico in the 1980's and earlier (graduated HS 1981). I have lived on the border my entire life. That country has a TON of potential, but they let their drug runners ruin it for all of them. Where else can nearly ALL of their coastal property be tourism plus all of their oil and they STILL can't keep their population employed.
 
danhagan said:
I've never flown my AC there, but have been all over Mexico in the 1980's and earlier (graduated HS 1981). I have lived on the border my entire life. That country has a TON of potential, but they let their drug runners ruin it for all of them. Where else can nearly ALL of their coastal property be tourism plus all of their oil and they STILL can't keep their population employed.
Click to expand...

I'm going to offer up an unlikely source of trouble for Mexico: The US.

I may get some flack for that, but I have some reasoning behind it. The US is the primary delivery point for most all Mexican drugs. Right or wrong on our consumption of controlled substances, it is a crime, and the country of Mexico is a major supporter. Next, hand in hand with that problem is the porous border conditions, and the unwillingness of the US to solve it once and for all. Next in the lineup is our stripping many parts of Mexico or their fathers who would normally provide strictness and familial structure to the kids. So many of the hard workers have only one idea in mind and that is to get into the US where they can make more money to send home. Money does not equal a father in the house every night, and it's a Sysiphian task trying to keep up with the rising cost of living in Mexico along with the declining Peso(devalued many times).

While we aren't the biggest problem Mexico has, we seem to contribute to their woes regarding social and financial policy.
 
I think it's a little hypocritical to criticize Mexico considering the USA CBP heavy handed approach to eapis, fines, and inspections. Also, Mexico doesn't require their citizins to get prior government permission to depart the country via airplane. That sort of oversight is reserved for places like Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, and the USA.
 
Would not be interested in flying to Mexico. Too much turmoil,plenty of places still to see in this country,my international preference is the Bahamas.
 
JHW said:
I think it's a little hypocritical to criticize Mexico considering the USA CBP heavy handed approach to eapis, fines, and inspections. Also, Mexico doesn't require their citizins to get prior government permission to depart the country via airplane. That sort of oversight is reserved for places like Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, and the USA.
Click to expand...
But the U.S. CBP doesn't shake down Mexican citizens. You may not like CBP rules, but at least they don't make up the rules as they go.
 
Kritchlow said:
But the U.S. CBP doesn't shake down Mexican citizens. You may not like CBP rules, but at least they don't make up the rules as they go.
Click to expand...


This particular Mexican rule has been long standing as well.

CBP rules do vary depending on the port of entry. Some want a phone call to the port in advance, some just use the eAPIS notification, etc.
 
I'm guessing all of you guys saying "just go to the Caribbean/Bahamas instead" live in the eastern half of the U.S. Those of us on the west coast have fewer options unless we want to fly a LONG way.
 
dans2992 said:
This particular Mexican rule has been long standing as well.

CBP rules do vary depending on the port of entry. Some want a phone call to the port in advance, some just use the eAPIS notification, etc.
Click to expand...

Yes, CBP rules may have a slight difference in local station interpretation, but none of them will take the money in your wallet in lieu of due process.

If this Mexican law is long standing and known, than the whole premise of the original article is false.
 
I have ZERO interest in flying to Mexico... I would not even do it in someone else's plane.... :no::no::nonod::nonod:....

Ps.... Loved the comment about undocs landing here and getting SS, welfare, food stamps, cell phones etc etc etc....:rofl::rofl::wink2:
 
Kritchlow said:
If this Mexican law is long standing and known, than the whole premise of the original article is false.
Click to expand...

Here ya go. It's been better than 20 years since I had to deal with Mexican customs but at that time it was run very cleanly. Now days I think that I wouldn't want to give them the opportunity to have me at a disadvantage, e.g. follow the rules to the letter.
 
docmirror said:
I'm going to offer up an unlikely source of trouble for Mexico: The US.
Click to expand...

I can see your point. It would seem with the right leadership and their natural resources, they could overcome quite a few problems. I have friends that have flown and still fly to Baja ... it'd be a great trip if things were safe. I used to go there twice a week and always refueled there in highschool (cheap gas), even shopping as a male was fun over there. As a kid, everyone wanted the neat knives, bull whips, etc.
 
Maybe I am missing it but where does it say what the violation was, when it happened, who the pilot was, etc. I am calling BS on this story unless there are more details that are somewhere else. The link in the story "for more details" goes to a company that sells services to help you fly in mexico and the Caribbean. No conflict of interest there...

Keith
 
kmacht said:
Maybe I am missing it but where does it say what the violation was, when it happened, who the pilot was, etc. I am calling BS on this story unless there are more details that are somewhere else. The link in the story "for more details" goes to a company that sells services to help you fly in mexico and the Caribbean. No conflict of interest there...

Keith
Click to expand...


Agreed....... NO conflict of interest there....:rolleyes:...:mad2::mad2::mad2::mad:
 
Since I have lived in Mexico for a few years, launched multiple businesses here and dealt with the good and bad I want to correct a few misconceptions about the country:

Point one: Mexico is a 'chit hole'

I live in a city that Conde Nast named the #1 city in the world. There are 100 restaurants within walking distance from my house. I play tennis 2-3 days a week on beautifully maintained clay courts (and pay $5.28 for two hours of court time at todays exchange rate).

Yes, there is some damn extreme poverty here, but year by year that situation is improving.

Point two: You can't do anything without bribes.

I have been in Mexico for three years, made numerous flights, driven around the country, been involved with multiple businesses and never once had to pay a bribe. Quite the contrary, actually, one of the state governments subsidizes our office space as an incentive to create more jobs there.

Now, I'm not naive, I know that some people have had to pay bribes and that sucks.

Point three: Consider the source

Please note that the press release was put out by an organization that doesn't operate in Mexico, apparently isn't aware of the rules and seems to be trying to convince people to instead travel to locations in which they do operate. I have been to a couple places they operate, they are also lovely, but many also have crime and poverty problems.

Point four: The pilots allegation that he had reviewed notams and that should be enough

I'm willing to give him a slight benefit of the doubt on this one, but AOPA, Baja Pilots and Caribbean Sky Tours *all* have this information on their websites. When I made my first trip three years ago that was true and it's still true today. For example: http://www.aopa.org/Flight-Planning/Mexico

You cannot investigate a flight to Mexico without someone recommending one of those three organizations to you as information sources.

Point five: Incompetence of airport staff

It's a little ironic that someone complained about the incompetence of airport staff on a thread in which a pilot hadn't done a complete pre-flight planning exercise. That aside, my experience has been mostly good on this front. The rules can be a bit different at different airports though, and that can cause some to believe incompetence is at work. For example, I recently flew the Maule to Huatulco (side note, someone said there are better beaches than Mexico, I challenge you to find better beaches than some of the nearly untouched bays in Oaxaca state) and found the security procedures there to be different from Leon or Querétaro (all three are AOEs) and, of course, vastly different from the security at my base in Celaya (which isn't an AOE, but does have some Israeli built drones that look a lot like Predators, but I've been assured aren't. They are used to fight the drug war). The point is that it wasn't that the kid at the door was incompetent, it was that the rules were different and I didn't know them until I asked.

Another example, my very first flight into Mexico three years ago I spoke far less spanish than I do now. The woman in mexican FSS actually walked me to an office I needed to visit, translated for me then gave me her personal mobile number in case I needed help anywhere else along the way.

Another example, the only border crossing at which I've experienced incompetence was entering the US when CBP lost my eapis and threatened me with a 5,000 dollar fine. They did so with a nasty attitude and self important tone of voice. I think I don't need to point out that they didn't apologize when I produced the accepted filing and they sorted out their mistake. In fact, I've entered the US six times and only had a single pleasant experience (McAllen). Everywhere else I was made to feel like a criminal until proven innocent and they screwed things up twice.

Anyway, yeah, there are problems in Mexico, but to write the entire country off, as some in this thread have, doesn't make any more sense than writing off the Bahamas because of the slums in Nassau or refusing to visit Texas because of terrible neighborhoods in Dallas.
 
Kritchlow said:
But the U.S. CBP doesn't shake down Mexican citizens. You may not like CBP rules, but at least they don't make up the rules as they go.
Click to expand...
My experience at Ft. Lauderdale says otherwise. We were made to wait in the airplane on the ramp on a 95F day and for over an hour and repeatedly threatened with fines and imprisonment if we stepped off the wing onto the pavement. Then i was further detained in their office for another 4 hours and repeatedly threatened with the same. They searched all our bags and brought in a drug dog to check the airplane. They removed the seats and pulled up the carpets. Then they had a shift change and then another crop of barney fifes lectured me about the seriousness of our infraction. I might still be there if there hadn't been a fire alarm in the building and we had to all go outside. To this day i wonder if someone took pity on me and pulled the alarm.

What did we do that was so wrong? We arrived at the customs office 5-10 minutes after our earliest scheduled eapis arrival time, but our wheels touching down onto american soil was alleged to be 4 minutes prior to our earliest time. There were at least 8 highly trained govermnet officials involved in our case throughout the day. Clearly an excellent use of my tax dollars.
 
JHW said:
What did we do that was so wrong? We arrived at the customs office 5-10 minutes after our earliest scheduled eapis arrival time, but our wheels touching down onto american soil was alleged to be 4 minutes prior to our earliest time. There were at least 8 highly trained govermnet officials involved in our case throughout the day. Clearly an excellent use of my tax dollars.
Click to expand...

AHAH!!! We've got you now. So you DID commit the grievous infraction of entering this country illegally! Well, Mr - you better fess up, and beg for mercy here. Scofflaws like you will be dealt with by the proper authorities. :D

More seriously, our CBP is a freaking joke. If anything, as bad as or worse than a third world country. Sorry...
 
JHW said:
What did we do that was so wrong? We arrived at the customs office 5-10 minutes after our earliest scheduled eapis arrival time, but our wheels touching down onto american soil was alleged to be 4 minutes prior to our earliest time. There were at least 8 highly trained govermnet officials involved in our case throughout the day. Clearly an excellent use of my tax dollars.
Click to expand...

Similar to my experience. In one case they lost me completely and threatened me with a $5,000 fine. In another they never received notification of my amended times (twice amended, once via phone and once in the air, for a total of 4 hours delay) and got super snarky with me when I arrived commenting "you barely made it, I was just about to shred your paperwork as a no show and then you would have been in trouble".
 
Last edited:
'Flown in Mexico about 7-8 times in the last 5 years. Never a problem and always an adventure. If you want everything to be predicable, just stay in the pattern...

So... Now, a nice trip for those who'd like an easy "first trip to Mexico"... or just a quick, fun beach fix. The Baja Bush Pilots are sponsoring another group trip to San Felipe (over Memorial Day weekend). A few weeks ago, we had about 60 planes down to Loreto for another BBP trip.

More info here
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top