Flying to Grenada

Sounds like an excellent adventure, keep up the great reporting work so we can all share in it.
 
Oh man... Definitely keep us informed! One thing I'd like to do before I die (if I can ever scrape together the dough) is to take an island-hopping trip through the entire Caribbean. I'd love to do it vicariously first! :D
 
A while back a friend of mine was attending the Vet school down there and I went and picked her up in my Travel Air. Should you have a radio license? Yes. Is anyone going to ask you for it? Nope, all anyone wants is your money, as long as you have your passports all will be fine. When you return make sure that you CALL CUSTOMS from your final stop with an ETA!!! ADCUS on your flight plan will not cut it regardless what anyone says! Make sure you have a good stash of cash with you for fuel stops, down in the windwards the infrastructure can be a bit sketchy and you don't want to get stuck because they can't process your credit card. Also be sure to make a detour to Nikki Beach in St Barts.
 
Man that sounds like fun!! I planned my fantasy trip to Saint Lucia while cruisng the flight levels and longing to stop at all the little airports we flew over. I think the longest overwater leg I had to fly was 125nm.
The Florida Pilots association has some good stuff on their website about customs and cruising in the Bahamas. I'd recommend clearing customs inbound at Fort Pierce, FL. I've used them several times and it's an easy hop from Freeport, Treasure Cay, and Nassau. Plus a pretty nice restaurant at the FBO next door.
I usually try to keep one of my tanks with nothing but US bought 100LL in it for as long as possible. I use it for takeoff and approaches so I know the fuel is good. Probably not necessary now, but fuel quality used to be an issue in that region.

Keep us posted
 
Yeah, we are planning on having lots of cash on hand (to the tune of several thousand dollars) to make sure we have ample reserves for fuel and other airport fees. The hotels and such should accept credit cards fine, but since the airports apparently don't, it will be important to keep the cash on hand. It seems that planning on spending about $5,000 total on the trip is not unreasonable (and that's given the Mooney at my excellent rate - a more expensive plane will cost more, of course). I spent a total of $260 on the charts I ordered last night, but that included a bit over $100 for the Jepp set and about $35 for the Jepp 2" binder. Oh, and it also included purchasing a lot of sectionals and IFR charts/approach plates for the domestic portion of my flight, which I forgot to mention. Annoyingly, the US IFR stuff all expires on January 15th - right in the middle of my trip. :mad3:

Thanks for the tip on Fort Pierce, maddog. I'll keep that in mind as I'm picking my stops.

Right now I'm going to eagely await the arrival of my new charts, and try to pick my stops en route a bit more (that will probably be tomorrow's focus). This is doing about as much of the Caribbean as you can do in what is really too short of a time period to really take it all in, but should be highly enjoyable.

Henning, everyone's told me the same about the radio license, that nobody will ask for it. I'm going to get it anyway, just because the way my luck goes, if I don't, I will be the one person in the history of the world who gets asked for it. I also do intend on calling customs prior to takeoff for returning to the US, I've been told in a number of places that is a necessity.

Do you have any other tips on this trip, having made it before?

Hopefully the lots of posts on my steps don't bother anyone - my intent is that this thread will be able to walk anyone else who wants to make a similar trip through what I did and be of use to them in trip planning. Plus, since I'm going to Grenada, I should successfully cover pretty much any place you'd want to go in the Caribbean, at least in terms of basic requirements. :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I need to call the customs sticker folk. They say that the sticker is good for one calendar year, and the wording indicates it's for 2008, 2009, etc. The application does not seem to list where you can apply for a 2009 sticker. I was going to call the phone number on the form to ask if I can apply for a 2009 sticker in advance. I don't want to wait until the new year to apply since we're planning on leaving on the 10th, but I hear that they are also very quick about getting you the sticker once you apply.
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They started issuing 2009 stickers sometime around October. If you apply for one now, that's what you'll get.

Regards,
Joe
 
Ahh, now that makes sense. Thanks, Joe!
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Yeah, we are planning on having lots of cash on hand (to the tune of several thousand dollars) to make sure we have ample reserves for fuel and other airport fees. The hotels and such should accept credit cards fine, but since the airports apparently don't, it will be important to keep the cash on hand. It seems that planning on spending about $5,000 total on the trip is not unreasonable (and that's given the Mooney at my excellent rate - a more expensive plane will cost more, of course). I spent a total of $260 on the charts I ordered last night, but that included a bit over $100 for the Jepp set and about $35 for the Jepp 2" binder. Oh, and it also included purchasing a lot of sectionals and IFR charts/approach plates for the domestic portion of my flight, which I forgot to mention. Annoyingly, the US IFR stuff all expires on January 15th - right in the middle of my trip. :mad3:

Thanks for the tip on Fort Pierce, maddog. I'll keep that in mind as I'm picking my stops.

Right now I'm going to eagely await the arrival of my new charts, and try to pick my stops en route a bit more (that will probably be tomorrow's focus). This is doing about as much of the Caribbean as you can do in what is really too short of a time period to really take it all in, but should be highly enjoyable.

Henning, everyone's told me the same about the radio license, that nobody will ask for it. I'm going to get it anyway, just because the way my luck goes, if I don't, I will be the one person in the history of the world who gets asked for it. I also do intend on calling customs prior to takeoff for returning to the US, I've been told in a number of places that is a necessity.

Do you have any other tips on this trip, having made it before?

Hopefully the lots of posts on my steps don't bother anyone - my intent is that this thread will be able to walk anyone else who wants to make a similar trip through what I did and be of use to them in trip planning. Plus, since I'm going to Grenada, I should successfully cover pretty much any place you'd want to go in the Caribbean, at least in terms of basic requirements. :)
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Nah, it's pretty straight forward, I would suggest you take a marine VHF radio with you and don't rush the trip mon, you can make it a really nice vacation island hopping your way up... figure about a year or so...
 
The next bit in the saga of my trip to Grenada...

Well, half of my charts arrived yesterday, and the rest should arrive today. I have my stops for the trip down planned, and need to figure out my exact stops for the trip home. I've now put the hotel choice ball in my friend's court, as this is really his trip and I want him to choose where to stay. I'm going to plan the return trip next, which will be significantly faster, as the goal will be to get home more than to have a leisurely trip down. I'd rather have a slow trip home so I have more buffer in case of weather delays, but oh well, perhaps for another time.

Today (probably a bit late, but should still be fine) I applied for my Restricted Radio operator's license. This process was somewhat confusing, so I thought I'd write up a bit on it.

From my understanding, you need a radio operator's license for international flight, some things seem to indicate including flying over Canada, although if you don't land there there's a question of whether or not you'll ever be asked for it. I'm told in the Caribbean you'll never be asked for it, however I like to be law-abiding, so I'm paying my $60. Besides, it's good for life. You also need a license for the plane (only good for 10 years), however since the plane is owned by someone else, he said that he would take care of that license.

The license that you want as a pilot is a Restricted Radio license (code RR). You can mail the forms in manually, however the online application process is actually pretty simple, just not straightforward. As such, I would recommend using the online system.

The FCC's website is not set up for ease of use. All the important information is there, however some of the help has minor errors. For example, it tells you to click "Print Preview" for a printable version, which doesn't exist. There is a different link for something like "Reference Copy", which gives you a PDF of your application once it's filled out. I did this and saved the copy of it for my records.

To use the online system, find the ULS (Universal Licensing System) homepage here:

http://wireless.fcc.gov/uls/index.htm?job=home

First you must register. This is a simple process, click on "Register" and follow. They will give you a FRN (FCC Registration Number) and you pick (or are assigned) a password. For some reason the FCC doesn't have very good cookies (or probably just doesn't have any) and so if you navigate away from a page where you were logged in, you need to log in again. Make sure to keep these numbers handy.

After that, you need to apply for a new license. The one you want is code RR. It is NOT code CG, Commercial General Aviation license. I found this rather confusing. Code RR is actually under the commercial operator's license program, which has a whole host of licenses listed. The RR is what you want, and it does not require a test. I'm not certain what code you need for the aircraft.

The application process is simple. You just fill in the required information, and type your name where needed. All they want is your $60. Best of all, they fill in the PDF. This way, you know (or at least hope) that it is filled in correctly. You also don't have to worry about it getting to them in the mail, and it gets right to them.

When the application is complete, you submit it and are then required to pay the $60 fee, which is at a different part of the website that they link you to. You'll need your FRN and password again for this. Just type in your credit card info, and you're good to go.

There's also the user fee decal, which I will probably try to apply for tonight. More on that once I've applied.
 
The official information on the user fees can be found here:

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/pleasure_boats/user_fee/user_fee_decal.xml

My understanding is this is mostly just a requirement prior to flying your plane into the US. In our case, it is required since "You operate an aircraft, which is non-comercial and enters the United States." It references 19 CFR 24.22 for additional information. This decal is good for a year, with unlimited use. I suspect that the majority of pilots who get these will be making trips like mine, where they'll use it once, and that will be that. According to the website, this user fee decal includes a transponder, which transmits information about the aircraft.
 
Well, David's question prompted me to go to the website, which then prompted me to start registering. So, here's how this goes.

Go to the website I linked in my above post. From there, you can select from the right side online registration. This will bring you to DTOPS.

You need to register with DTOPS (Decal and Transponder Online Procurement System - can you tell this is government?). This is remarkably annoying. You actually need 5 security questions, and the password requirements are pretty insane. It's just annoying, then you're done and in the system.

Once you've registered with the system, you log in to DTOPS and then you need to create an account. There's not a lot of FAQs on here. I haven't read anything that says that you can't register an account for a plane you don't own, but it probably makes sense to first confirm with the owners of the plane to see how they want it handled. In this case, I talked to my friend who owns it, and put the address of the "Business/Individual" being registered as the address of the LLC that owns the plane. I put him and myself down as "Company Representatives". I also put down my personal address as my shipping address. You'll probably want to confirm with your plane's owner(s) on any of this.

Once you have an account created, from that account you can "Create/Manage Orders" and then "Create New Order." After that, it's "New User Fee."

Select "Aircraft" and then they ask for basic info on the plane - Year, manufacturer, and tail number. Make sure you know this info. While it doesn't say you need to put in your N, I figure it's probably what they want, so I put it in. You also need to select which calendar year decal you want. In this case, 2009 was all that was available. On the off hance that you needed a 2008 decal in the remaining 2 weeks of 2008, I'm not sure what you'd do.

Once the order has been created, you then need to pay for it. The order has an option for "Make Payment" which you select, then give your credit card information.

So, my user fee decal is on its way, at least theoretically. The process is actually not that bad (same with the FCC), it's just that the information isn't placed in a manner that's particularly intuitive or easy to find. Once you know how to do it, though, it's fine.
 
Man Ted what a PIA. Seems like this is more difficult and frustrating than the actual trip.
 
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AdamZ said:
Man Ted what a PIA. Seems like this is more difficult and frustrating that the actual trip.
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I agree with Adam, but once this stuff is all done, it does sound like follow-on trips, at least within the next year while the decals are still could, will be easier. If he was to go again anyways.

David
 
If you think about your first solo cross country and every first big milestone of a trip you made afterwards, you probably put as much if not more prep time in than the actual trip. This is no different - flying to multiple different countries is definitely a new experience.

The reality is a lot of that is what I'm now going through, because it's the education of what needs to be done. A lot of the leg work is just finding out what needs to be done and where to find it before the trip. Once the trip is done and I've learned from it, I would be able to plan a repeat trip a whole lot easier and faster. Part of my intention with this thread is to make it easier for anyone else who wants to do a trip like this. :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
If you think about your first solo cross country and every first big milestone of a trip you made afterwards, you probably put as much if not more prep time in than the actual trip. This is no different - flying to multiple different countries is definitely a new experience.

The reality is a lot of that is what I'm now going through, because it's the education of what needs to be done. A lot of the leg work is just finding out what needs to be done and where to find it before the trip. Once the trip is done and I've learned from it, I would be able to plan a repeat trip a whole lot easier and faster. Part of my intention with this thread is to make it easier for anyone else who wants to do a trip like this. :)
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Yea but didn't really have to deal with a gov't buracracy to plan my first XC
 
AdamZ said:
Yea but didn't really have to deal with a gov't buracracy to plan my first XC
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If you did, you probably wouldn't have done it at all. At least, the barrier to entry would've been much higher.

My point is that the first time you do things like this, it always seems like a big deal, and takes a lot more effort. The second, third, umpteenth time around, it doesn't matter quite so much anymore.
 
Ted:

Thanks for the reports and information- very interesting.

Keep 'em coming!
 
Today I received my Jepp charts, the Caribbean trip kit. They refer to this as an "Airway Manual" and I can see why. More than the first half of the pages in it aren't approaches, charts, etc., they're useful information. I haven't even figured out yet just how much info is in here, but I'll be having a lot of fun reading through it all over time. I wish that I'd ordered this earlier and had more time to read through all of it. A lot of it I think will be learning where things are. Also, since I'm used to NACO charts there's a certain amount of working with Jepp charts for familiarity.

Not that ordering them when I did was necessarily a problem, but I probably could have ordered them a bit earlier. For the $103 this was, I don't feel like I got ripped off given the amount of information that's in here. To me, it looks like this itself has most of the info you'd need to plan a trip like this. As a one-time purchase, it's not so bad.


The planning continues...
 
Well, that was the end of that.

I got my the required licenses, ordered the necessary charts (and then some), got all required permissions from the owner. What was I missing? (lesson learned here for anyone who wants to do this)

Insurance.

A few days ago, we called the insurance company to get confirmation that all of this would be covered. Turns out the answer was no. Not only the answer no, but they had no intention of providing extended coverage to the area, period. So, we looked into the possibility of some supplemental insurance. It doesn't appear that is possible. We did find another carrier who said that they would provide insurance, however after looking into it, it would not have been cost effective as they just renewed the current policy.

So, if you want to make a trip like this, talk to your insurance company and make sure they'll cover it. If not, there are other ones who will, but you'll need to switch first. A good time to do this would be when it's time to renew your insurance. It seems that some companies will provide extensions, but they prefer for you to be more experienced (223 hours isn't enough, apparently). It also appears that the Caribbean isn't actually a problem for a number of insurance companies, the one we have on the Mooney just happens to be one of the ones that does not.

I'm going to check out the policy tomorrow to see the options for an abbreviated, but my friend who this trip was really for in the first place is now less excited about the prospect at all. I get the feeling that this trip is, unfortunately, canceled at this point. However we may go again for when I have my own plane, and have insurance that covers the trip. I now know what to ask when I go for insurance.

I'm pretty bummed about all of this, but I did learn a lot from the exercise, and when the opportunity comes up to do this trip (or another similar one) sometime in the future, I'm now better prepared for it. Hopefully it'll be before too long.
 
Wow Ted, what a bummer. It sucks to have done all the planning to this point, only to have it a no-go due to insurance. Just one more reason to get your own plane now right :rolleyes: !
 
Ted DuPuis said:
According to the website, this user fee decal includes a transponder, which transmits information about the aircraft.
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No, the decal is just a decal. You can also use the website to order CBP transponders which are something truckers need. Not applicable to aircraft.

Regarding insurance - might be worth checking with offshore vendors for the areas you'll be overflying. I've no firsthand experience down where you're going, but do know if you want insurance coverage that actually works in Mexico you have to get it from a Mexican company. Might be a similar deal where you plan to go?
 
I talked with another insurance carrier who covered the entire Caribbean as part of their standard policy. It's not that you need insurnace from a carrier in that particular country, it comes down to what areas particular insurance companies will cover. It's important to check with your carrier on this to determine the terms of your particular policy.

Anyway, I'm bummed about the result, but such things happen, and weather may have prevented us from having made the trip in the alotted time anyway. Hopefully next time a trip like this comes up I'll be in a different position in terms of what plane I fly (and therefore also insurance). I'll continue my posts here when that comes. My friend has stated that he definitely wants to do this trip at some point in time, and that he still has summer vacations and such, so more opportunities will arise.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I talked with another insurance carrier who covered the entire Caribbean as part of their standard policy. It's not that you need insurnace from a carrier in that particular country, it comes down to what areas particular insurance companies will cover. It's important to check with your carrier on this to determine the terms of your particular policy.

Anyway, I'm bummed about the result, but such things happen, and weather may have prevented us from having made the trip in the alotted time anyway. Hopefully next time a trip like this comes up I'll be in a different position in terms of what plane I fly (and therefore also insurance). I'll continue my posts here when that comes. My friend has stated that he definitely wants to do this trip at some point in time, and that he still has summer vacations and such, so more opportunities will arise.
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You can insure the voyage as "excess insurance" with another carrier who will cover what your primary carrier doesn't. Usually you can get these policies for a couple of hundred$$.
 
Ted, if you haven't already I would go back to Jim at CFA and pick his brain again about this. The only liability to flying the plane down there with its current policy is that it won't be in force in some areas. Like Henning says I find it hard to believe you are the first to find himself in this situation, there has to be someone who will write coverage coverage to cover you in areas that your primary carrier won't.
 
alaskaflyer said:
Ted, if you haven't already I would go back to Jim at CFA and pick his brain again about this. The only liability to flying the plane down there with its current policy is that it won't be in force in some areas. Like Henning says I find it hard to believe you are the first to find himself in this situation, there has to be someone who will write coverage coverage to cover you in areas that your primary carrier won't.
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It's actually normal to do short term trip insurance for stuff like this.
 
Ted,

That looked like a very fun and interesting trip you were planning. Sorry you ran into a snag on it. If it were me though, I would need a very trustworthy bird with at least two engines to feel comfortable. You obviously have more guts than I have!

Rick
 
I did talk to Jim about this, who pointed me in the direction of his insurance carrier, for whom it was a non-issue. They confirmed that they would cover it fine, but the owners of the plane don't want to switch policies and risk losing a bunch of money in the process. I wouldn't ask them to do so, and the fact that they entertained researching this anyway is more than I would have expected them to do.

The other problem at this point is that the momentum has gone down, specifically on my friend's side, for whom the trip is for. He does want to do the trip, but I think that he's more interested now in doing it once I have my own plane. Since the momentum is dead, even if I found a solution at this point it probably wouldn't save the trip for this time. We'll plan again for another time in the future, and see how that goes. At least the radio license is good for life!

And Rick, you can call me brave or stupid, take your pick. :) I do trust the Mooney, though, and it has been good to me thus far. I do think next time we're going to try for my plane (which means I need to buy one), and that will, I believe, make a number of the logistics easier. If nothing else, I'm the final say on anything that happens with my plane.

Since the plan next will be for my own plane, I'll make sure to have some of the things I want in it, like the 406 MHz ELT which is not actually a requirement for the trip but that I have decided I want in any plane I own. So in many ways it's better, as I will have a setup that's better equipped for the trip by then.
 
B2Soar said:
If it were me though, I would need a very trustworthy bird with at least two engines to feel comfortable. You obviously have more guts than I have!
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Ted has to do special weight and balance calculations for his balls. :yes:

(A friend of mine said that about me, once, because I'll actually take a single over Lake Michigan under controlled circumstances - Not that daring, in comparison!)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Ted has to do special weight and balance calculations for his balls. :yes:

(A friend of mine said that about me, once, because I'll actually take a single over Lake Michigan under controlled circumstances - Not that daring, in comparison!)
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Indeed, songs have been written regarding my testicular fortitude. ;)

Kent, you had me rolling with that one! :rofl:

Adam, in reality the money spent isn't all that much (certainly a lot less than the flying would have been). The only money I've spent that will almost certainly do me no good is on the user fee decal for the Mooney. However the Jepp charts are worth something, and a number of the charts I bought I'm likely to need anyway, or did need anyway. The subscription to the website for info on Caribbean flying is good for a year, and I'm likely to use it in that time period.

All in all, I'm probably out about $100 that I'll see no return on. That's not so bad for the education I got. I don't really worry about the time I spent on it, given that education that I've received.
 
Mooney,

I can help ya with the trip... call me in the evening five zero three, 47 five, three three 47...
 
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