Flying through restricted airspace

jasc15

jasc15

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
443
Location
New Jersey
Display Name
Display name:
Joe
How difficult or easy is it to do so? I would like to visit Norfolk, VA, but planning a route that avoids all the restricted airspace in the Chesapeake Bay and the Delmarva peninsula it a bit ridiculous. Is it any more involved than flying through class C or B as far as ATC communication is concerned?
 
jasc15 said:
How difficult or easy is it to do so? I would like to visit Norfolk, VA, but planning a route that avoids all the restricted airspace in the Chesapeake Bay and the Delmarva peninsula it a bit ridiculous. Is it any more involved than flying through class C or B as far as ATC communication is concerned?
Click to expand...


File IFR and it won't be a problem.

VFR weekends are more likley to result in cleared direct through MOAs (which is what I assume you're talking about?)
 
jasc15 said:
How difficult or easy is it to do so? I would like to visit Norfolk, VA, but planning a route that avoids all the restricted airspace in the Chesapeake Bay and the Delmarva peninsula it a bit ridiculous. Is it any more involved than flying through class C or B as far as ATC communication is concerned?
Click to expand...

Depends what you mean by "restricted airspace". If you mean Restricted Areas, it's very unlikely you'll be allowed through them if they're in use. If they're not in use it's not an issue.

If by "restricted airspace" you mean Special Use Airspace it depends on the type of SUA. You'll likely be routed around active MOAs if you're IFR. If you're VFR you can go through them but be aware the using aircraft are maneuvering and the 250 knot speed limit does not apply. You can't go through a Prohibited Area, IFR or VFR.
 
roncachamp said:
Depends what you mean by "restricted airspace". If you mean Restricted Areas, it's very unlikely you'll be allowed through them if they're in use. If they're not in use it's not an issue.

If by "restricted airspace" you mean Special Use Airspace it depends on the type of SUA. You'll likely be routed around active MOAs if you're IFR. If you're VFR you can go through them but be aware the using aircraft are maneuvering and the 250 knot speed limit does not apply. You can't go through a Prohibited Area, IFR or VFR.
Click to expand...

Particularly with the R-areas, watch times carefully and talk to ATC if you can. Potomac has been known to drop flight following - or failed to give the right frequencies for handoffs - leaving you in a precarious position if you're headed toward an R-area. Personally, I avoid the R-areas unless I'm IFR.
 
As I live and fly on the Delmarva Peninsula, the restricted areas of which you speak are near and undear to my heart. They're active pretty much all the time except late at night (even on the weekends), and the path around them is complex both vertically and horizontally, as there are varying floors to go under as well as some that go to the surface. For east-west flights, going IFR doesn't help, either, except to provide assurance that you won't stumble into something -- some of the IFR routings around those areas involve very extensive diversions. OTOH, going VFR without obtaining flight following from Patuxent Approach (to help confirm where they think you are in relation to the active airspace) is a somewhat risky proposition unless you know the area like the back of your hand.

That said, if you're going from Long Island to Norfolk, it's a piece of cake -- follow V1 all the way (nearly a great circle route), and it will keep you out of everything. Flight following from Dover, Patuxent, and Norfolk is normally available, and highly recommended. And if you go VFR, make sure you've done the Washington DC SFRA training course (see http://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/ALC/course_catalog.aspx and find "Washington"), as you'll be close to the 60-mile ring.
 
Last edited:
wsuffa said:
Particularly with the R-areas, watch times carefully and talk to ATC if you can. Potomac has been known to drop flight following - or failed to give the right frequencies for handoffs - leaving you in a precarious position if you're headed toward an R-area. Personally, I avoid the R-areas unless I'm IFR.
Click to expand...

Must be different back East than it is here in Arizona. I fly through R-xxx areas all the time. I just did so today. All you have to do here is contact the appropriate controlling entity and ask. They know where the Restricted area really is in use and if there is nothing going on in the section that you want to fly through they'll usually just give a squawk code and clear you through.
 
slowjoe said:
Must be different back East than it is here in Arizona. I fly through R-xxx areas all the time. I just did so today. All you have to do here is contact the appropriate controlling entity and ask. They know where the Restricted area really is in use and if there is nothing going on in the section that you want to fly through they'll usually just give a squawk code and clear you through.
Click to expand...

Which is the appropriate process and works in most areas.

However, I have had Potomac give me a bad handoff frequency while on FF, and then they ignored me when I called back after being unable to raise the controller on the other freq. That left me headed directly toward an R area.

Unable to confirm hot or not, it necessitated an abrupt turn.

While I later talked to Potomac (found the correct frequency from an approach chart), it still left me very uncomfortable. Had I been IFR, I would have been assigned an appropriate vector to avoid any hot areas.

Around DC, they can be helpful or not, but the consequences of a mistake are higher than they are elsewhere.
 
slowjoe said:
Must be different back East than it is here in Arizona.
Click to expand...
It is. The R-areas over the Chesapeake Bay are very heavily used and active pretty much all day, every day, except for Sunday afternoons. The US Navy Test Pilot School uses it all the time during the week, and the MD ANG uses the range and its associated areas on weekends.
 
Its a piece of cake going from Long Island. I've done it a million times Just keep the coast on your right and you'll be ok. When you get there ask about the sushi spot. If you like Japanese food you will leave happy.
 
Thanks for all the input. It seems simpler flying from LI, but this trip may start in Reading, PA, so a direct route puts me right through the mess. It seems simple enough to call Patomac or Patuxent, but stories here of occasional dropped and missed handoffs prior to entering the R area worry me a bit. I suppose I should have 2 routes planned; one which will avoid the R areas if necessary.
 
jasc15 said:
Thanks for all the input. It seems simpler flying from LI, but this trip may start in Reading, PA, so a direct route puts me right through the mess. It seems simple enough to call Patomac or Patuxent, but stories here of occasional dropped and missed handoffs prior to entering the R area worry me a bit. I suppose I should have 2 routes planned; one which will avoid the R areas if necessary.
Click to expand...

Joe,

Easy peasy lemon squeezy........ KRDG ENO SBY CCV KORF

Mary and I run up and down that route all the time, flight following is easy with dover, potomac, patuxent and norfolk. Toss in Harrisburg for your departure point and they will hand you off to Philly.
 
Last edited:
jasc15 said:
Thanks for all the input. It seems simpler flying from LI, but this trip may start in Reading, PA, so a direct route puts me right through the mess.
Click to expand...
From Reading, it's also easy -- direct MXE (Modena VOR) V29 SBY V1 ORF. Keeps you out of everything sticky.
 
dmccormack said:
I've had success filing LRP-BAL-OTT
Click to expand...
Never had that route work. At BAL, you may get direct SBY, or V93 PXT, but I've never in 20 years around here gotten BAL-OTT. Of course, YMMV, but that's my experience. And you'll never get to go over BAL VFR unless you're landig there or FME or the like, or it's between midnight and 5 am.
 
Ron Levy said:
Never had that route work. At BAL, you may get direct SBY, or V93 PXT, but I've never in 20 years around here gotten BAL-OTT. Of course, YMMV, but that's my experience. And you'll never get to go over BAL VFR unless you're landig there or FME or the like, or it's between midnight and 5 am.
Click to expand...

Is the OP VFR only?

I thought we were discussing IFR -- if not, my apologies. :redface:

I flew KLNS-BAL-OTT about a month ago, IFR, from LNS to Lumberton, NC. Worked fine.

Got to see all the 737s coming and going. :)
 
I flew down that way yesterday from Phila. MXE-ENO-SBY-CCV-ORF and then on to NC and as mentioned above it was a piece of cake. The restricted areas were hot but that route keeps you clear of it all.

If you don't like flying the ~15 miles over the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay (yesterday it was so hazy that I basically had no outside horizon reference over the bay and had to go on the gauges for about 5 minutes until I could see the other side of the bayshore) an alternative would be V16 over PXT. That takes you west of most of the restricted areas and if you stay above 5000 ft you'll be above R-4007. I went that way a couple of years ago on a weekend and R-4007 was cold that day.

Also, if you're worried about dropped handoffs you can always contact Patuxent Approach directly, regardless of which ATC facility you're getting flight following from, to ask if the Restricted areas are hot.
 
Never had any issues. Fly by there a few times a month, including yesterday. Filing IFR is the best plan if you can. Otherwise, VFR with flight following.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top