flying the pattern (gopro HD 2 video)

iWantWings

iWantWings

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
437
Location
Southern California
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Display name:
wingsIwant
I'm a student pilot with about 5 hours of solo time.

On some occasions I use my gopro hd2 to record in-cockpit videos; they're fun to watch and also useful to see all sorts of mistakes.



For example, on this one lap around the pattern
  1. my turn from base to final wasn't all right (there's also some noise abatement to consider).
  2. I also carried too much speed on final which made me float during flare for a too long I think.
  3. And then, during flare, I began drifting left even though I had some right-input elevator. Maybe I was not using enough right ruder during flare?
Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbE9QSq1HHc
EDIT 2012-06-09
I've added a new 9 minute video with 6 landings in the cessna 172. For each of hte 6 landings the video records the turn from base to final and ends with the landing. Most of the time I'm left of center.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpxYOuetgyg
End of Edit
​
Anyhow, I love gopro's wide angle lens; it captures a lot in tight spaces (but, as expected, there's a good amount of distortion especially farther from the center of the image). Am also happy with the mouting position I have some side and forward view and, on a big screen, i can see the guages on the instruments as well.
 
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The wind that made you drift on flare might have been the same reason you turned inside the runway center-line. Plan more for that affect on base-to-final turn. Your head on a swivel was very apparent, important and commendable. You seemed to have a relaxed grip on the yoke, not always the case with low-time students... I tended to hold on a little tight back then. The rest will come with practice... Good luck and have fun!
 
Rudder wont stop drift...remember, in a xwind landing you use aileron for drift and rudder to keep the nose aligned with the path of flight (which ideally should be along the runway centerline). Your feet were ok... you didnt touch down crabbed as far as I could tell. Looks like you just needed to use more aileron to lower the upwind wing a bit more.
 
iWantWings said:
Am also happy with the mouting position I have some side and forward view and, on a big screen, i can see the guages on the instruments as well.
Click to expand...

Where is it mounted, on the back of the right seat? And how is it mounted?
 
FlySince9 said:
The wind that made you drift on flare might have been the same reason you turned inside the runway center-line. Plan more for that affect on base-to-final turn. Your head on a swivel was very apparent, important and commendable. You seemed to have a relaxed grip on the yoke, not always the case with low-time students... I tended to hold on a little tight back then. The rest will come with practice... Good luck and have fun!
Click to expand...

Thank you for the good advice. See the link to the new video I've added ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpxYOuetgyg ); it has the base-to-final turn for the 6 consecutive landings i've done that morning. In most of them I'm left of centerline by the time the nose wheel is on the ground, and on all I float longer than I probably should. What gets me is that there was no wind reported and windock was limp. I've looked at the video of the six landings and I think that although I'm aiming for the numbers, I'm coming in from an angle to the runway instead straight down on it. So that way, as soon as I get past the numbers on the same "path", I'm no longer on the center of the runway and have to correct. Just a guess. (The perspective on the camera is a bit skewed since it is mounted off-center and wide angle).

Thanks for the feedback! I am aware my training airport has had some mid-air collisions with a number of fatalities and although they are very rare, I do think about them - and that's why I look around a lot.

rottydaddy said:
Rudder wont stop drift...remember, in a xwind landing you use aileron for drift and rudder to keep the nose aligned with the path of flight (which ideally should be along the runway centerline). Your feet were ok... you didnt touch down crabbed as far as I could tell. Looks like you just needed to use more aileron to lower the upwind wing a bit more.
Click to expand...

You're aboslutely right - same concept my CFI has chiseled in my head but I dont knowy why I thought otherwise. But I was also taught that at low speed I should not really bank the wings and mostly use rudder? Maybe I really should use both, "as needed" - and best of all try not to allow it to get off-center in the first place. One of my main problems is that it takes me longer than it should to understand what the plane will do and where it will end up being; I need more "cues" and by that time I need more control input to re-align.

BrianNC said:
Where is it mounted, on the back of the right seat? And how is it mounted?
Click to expand...

Don't tell the FAA by my wife was in the back seat holding the camera real steady.

:D

I mounted the suction cup mount on the passenger's window as high as possible. Then, using the articulated arms that were attached to the suction cup (that gopro also provides), I aimed the camera forward, about 20* left and slightly down.

The camera was aimed left about 20* so that I would get most of the cockpit and left pilot's window. If it had been mounted straight forward than I would have gotten too much of the side window. Consider that the angle view is about 170* (maybe less so in 4:3 format i chose to record).

It was also aimed down "a little" because the camera was installed as high as possible on the window so I wanted to make sure I get the lower part of the control panel.

So I'm saying all this because GoPro, by default, does NOT have a viewfinder - not an optical one nor a digital one - through which you can look and see what perspective you're getting. You only know what the image looks like after you've offloaded the recorded movie (for gopro HD 2 version there is an optional digital back that has a digital preview, but that's like $80 or so).
 
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After watching your other video, even taking into consideration that the camera was off center, the passenger seat seemed perfectly aligned with the centerline...:)

As with what Rottydaddy said above, on your last landing, where your right wheel touched first, was when you were more aligned with the center than any other landing.

I'm sure some instructors will chime in and give some Pro advice.
 
iWantWings said:
You're aboslutely right - same concept my CFI has chiseled in my head but I dont knowy why I thought otherwise. But I was also taught that at low speed I should not really bank the wings and mostly use rudder? Maybe I really should use both, "as needed" - and best of all try not to allow it to get off-center in the first place.
Click to expand...
I'm going to guess that this advice you mention refers to crabbing that last little bit before you touch down, not the actual "moment of". Or maybe it's the preferred method for you when doing MCA maneuvers at altitude (to avoid a spin entry). I'm no instructor, but I know that if you don't have that upwind wing down a bit when landing in a crosswind, you are not going to touch down even parallel to the centerline, let alone on it.
So how low do you dare dip a wing while applying opposite rudder at a low airspeed with your flaps hanging out? A good question... best answered trying it at a nice safe altitude. I was taught, initially,to use mostly rudder to turn at MCA, but there's plenty of aileron effectiveness there with a 172 in slow flight, up to a point. It's not going to snap into a spin without warning just because you lowered a wing a little. Once you have a pretty good idea what you can "get away with", you might try some low passes, staying in ground effect and using aileron and rudder to move the airplane left and right of the centerline as you fly down the runway in the landing configuration, nice and slow. Go around and do it again, until you can put that airplane anywhere you want relative to the centerline, with the nose lined up with the runway. With 172s, it usually doesn't take a lot, even in a good crosswind, but you have to have some aileron in, and you have to keep it in, increasing it to full deflection as the airplane begins to roll out on all three wheels. Don't be shy about dropping that wing- I see people chicken out or whatever all the time, and they wind up with an embarrassing landing and probably a flat-spotted tire or two. At least with the nosewheel, it will at least try to sort itself out, even if it does so awkwardly. Do it like that in a taildragger, and you are in for some real trouble! :D

Remember, as you do this, that with a 172, the wingtip is about 6 feet from the ground when the airplane is sitting on all three wheels. Picture how much bank you'd need to drop the wingtip 6 feet!! If you need that much aileron input, it's probably too windy for a 172, so why are you out there? :D

As for being on the centerline: Not as important, if you ask me, as touching down so that the airplane is moving along the same heading as the centerline, preferably with its nose also on that heading. I recall that when I was a beginner, I was often guilty of "driving" the airplane in ground effect, trying to swerve it onto the centerline... not the best approach, and it hardly ever worked.
You have to think about it as you cross the threshold... in fact, it's perfectly OK to already be sideslipping (aileron into the wind, opposite rudder to keep the nose on track) on short final. Best thing about that technique is that you will already know how much aileron/rudder input you will need at touchdown (assuming the wind isn't different at that spot where you touch down, LOL).
 
rottydaddy said:
I'm going to guess that this advice you mention refers to crabbing that last little bit before you touch down, not the actual "moment of". Or maybe it's the preferred method for you when doing MCA maneuvers at altitude (to avoid a spin entry). I'm no instructor, but I know that if you don't have that upwind wing down a bit when landing in a crosswind, you are not going to touch down even parallel to the centerline, let alone on it.
So how low do you dare dip a wing while applying opposite rudder at a low airspeed with your flaps hanging out? A good question... best answered trying it at a nice safe altitude. I was taught, initially,to use mostly rudder to turn at MCA, but there's plenty of aileron effectiveness there with a 172 in slow flight, up to a point. It's not going to snap into a spin without warning just because you lowered a wing a little. Once you have a pretty good idea what you can "get away with", you might try some low passes, staying in ground effect and using aileron and rudder to move the airplane left and right of the centerline as you fly down the runway in the landing configuration, nice and slow. Go around and do it again, until you can put that airplane anywhere you want relative to the centerline, with the nose lined up with the runway. With 172s, it usually doesn't take a lot, even in a good crosswind, but you have to have some aileron in, and you have to keep it in, increasing it to full deflection as the airplane begins to roll out on all three wheels. Don't be shy about dropping that wing- I see people chicken out or whatever all the time, and they wind up with an embarrassing landing and probably a flat-spotted tire or two. At least with the nosewheel, it will at least try to sort itself out, even if it does so awkwardly. Do it like that in a taildragger, and you are in for some real trouble! :D

Remember, as you do this, that with a 172, the wingtip is about 6 feet from the ground when the airplane is sitting on all three wheels. Picture how much bank you'd need to drop the wingtip 6 feet!! If you need that much aileron input, it's probably too windy for a 172, so why are you out there? :D

As for being on the centerline: Not as important, if you ask me, as touching down so that the airplane is moving along the same heading as the centerline, preferably with its nose also on that heading. I recall that when I was a beginner, I was often guilty of "driving" the airplane in ground effect, trying to swerve it onto the centerline... not the best approach, and it hardly ever worked.
You have to think about it as you cross the threshold... in fact, it's perfectly OK to already be sideslipping (aileron into the wind, opposite rudder to keep the nose on track) on short final. Best thing about that technique is that you will already know how much aileron/rudder input you will need at touchdown (assuming the wind isn't different at that spot where you touch down, LOL).
Click to expand...

Lots to consider and you gave me good advice. My thinking was I had no excuses to drift off-center because the winds were reported to be calm. But, if there is a crosswind factor, i must not be shy about lowering that wing into the wind and using opposite rudder. And, most impotantly, continue that through the flare, if needed (FlySince9 pointed out that on my last landing in the 2nd video i had landed with the upwind wheel first, then the downwind wheel and that actually happened to be the time i was mostly on center line without sideload).

My next flight will likele be scheduled when winds will be around 10 to 14 kts. At the local airport there is some funky "mechanical turbulance" (?) due to trees and hangar structues so i'll see how i deal with that.

thanks again!
 
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nice video dude, what's the video size for this 9.34 minute long video? about a gigabyte??
 
scarybus320 said:
nice video dude, what's the video size for this 9.34 minute long video? about a gigabyte??
Click to expand...

all right, glad you liked it.

the 5 minute video (one lap around the pattern) was < 400MB.
the 9.34 minute video (6 base-to-final segments) was ~800MB, so nearing the GB you guessed.

both had this
1280x960 (4:3 aspect ratio)
29 fps
H.264 compression

I don't have any video editing software so i used the one provided by GoPro. I used it to go from the native .MP4 to some intermediate .AVI (i guess that allows the editing app to make some basic changes to the .avi) and then from the .AVI back to MP4 which I uploaded on youtube.

When going from .AVI to MP4 there was an option for "quality" and chose the medium one. If I had chosen the higher quality, i don't know how much the file size would have been. Good enough for youtube ;)
 
+1 on the video.

I saw a lot of things that looked really good. You did a super job of holding it off every time. I also really liked how much you looked around for traffic. Good use of checklist. You looked relaxed on the controls.

I'd say you've just about got this thing nailed down.

Really good job.
 
Nice video angle. Looking confident.

I have minor comments. Take or leave.

Someone else already said this one. Fight for the centerline. Enough said.

When putting the flaps up on a Cessna, I'd love to see you get in the habit of glancing outside and making sure they're really moving before throttle up.

I've told my story about having been taught that, forgetting about it over many years, and then making an unexpected night takeoff with the flaps stuck at 40 on my Skylane.

Finally, this one's subjective, but... Don't "slap" the flap handle around. This leads back to the above comment about Cessna flaps not coming up on a T&G or not coming down when needed.

Move the lever with conviction to where you want it, but don't "bang it against the stops" up or down. There's some really cheaply built components in that handle mechanism that don't deserve "rental" treatment. ;)

No need to flip it hard. Some will say not to grab it and hang on tightly either since that'll eventually bite you in turbulence. You might find yourself holding a handle that just snapped off in your hand.

But, just one or two fingers will put it where you want it. Finesse.

Otherwise the other commenters have covered it. Looks like you've got the hang of it.

Really like the camera angle.
 
iWantWings said:
all right, glad you liked it.

the 5 minute video (one lap around the pattern) was < 400MB.
the 9.34 minute video (6 base-to-final segments) was ~800MB, so nearing the GB you guessed.

both had this
1280x960 (4:3 aspect ratio)
29 fps
H.264 compression

I don't have any video editing software so i used the one provided by GoPro. I used it to go from the native .MP4 to some intermediate .AVI (i guess that allows the editing app to make some basic changes to the .avi) and then from the .AVI back to MP4 which I uploaded on youtube.

When going from .AVI to MP4 there was an option for "quality" and chose the medium one. If I had chosen the higher quality, i don't know how much the file size would have been. Good enough for youtube ;)
Click to expand...



i asked because i am thinking about to get the gorpo hd2 motorsport version so i can use it to video my spin and aerobatic training, but there is the n-flight cam out there which does a good job too but it's too much into aviation on the other hand, i think i prefer gopro so i can use it for my snowboarding stuff in the winter. and i saw a deal on amazon for 230bucks couple months ago, should have bought it but i guess i will wait for another deal coming up in the holidays
 
scarybus320 said:
and i saw a deal on amazon for 230bucks couple months ago, should have bought it but i guess i will wait for another deal coming up in the holidays
Click to expand...

Check out amazon everyday. The lowest I've seen it for is $257 and that was last week. It's at $269 today which is still a good deal.
 
denverpilot said:
Nice video angle. Looking confident.

I have minor comments. Take or leave.

Someone else already said this one. Fight for the centerline. Enough said.

When putting the flaps up on a Cessna, I'd love to see you get in the habit of glancing outside and making sure they're really moving before throttle up.

I've told my story about having been taught that, forgetting about it over many years, and then making an unexpected night takeoff with the flaps stuck at 40 on my Skylane.

Finally, this one's subjective, but... Don't "slap" the flap handle around. This leads back to the above comment about Cessna flaps not coming up on a T&G or not coming down when needed.

Move the lever with conviction to where you want it, but don't "bang it against the stops" up or down. There's some really cheaply built components in that handle mechanism that don't deserve "rental" treatment. ;)

No need to flip it hard. Some will say not to grab it and hang on tightly either since that'll eventually bite you in turbulence. You might find yourself holding a handle that just snapped off in your hand.

But, just one or two fingers will put it where you want it. Finesse.

Otherwise the other commenters have covered it. Looks like you've got the hang of it.

Really like the camera angle.
Click to expand...

Thank you denverpilot for the flaps-check advice. And I should really have been doing that already but, as you saw, I was not - good catch.

I should really be watching the flaps in flight and ground as well. In flight I had them fail to lower - and only noticed that after my speed in the patter was way higher than it should have been even at reduced RPM.

As far as "slapping" the flaps.... I've no idea why I was doing that. I noticed that in the video - was not aware until then. But it took me too long of a time to think abou visually checking the position of the flaps.

(today I had a stage check flight and flew a plane where I was forced to hold the flap switch in position because it kept wondering beyond what I would initially set it to - so no slapping the flap switch there:nono:).
 
scarybus320 said:
i asked because i am thinking about to get the gorpo hd2 motorsport version so i can use it to video my spin and aerobatic training, but there is the n-flight cam out there which does a good job too but it's too much into aviation on the other hand, i think i prefer gopro so i can use it for my snowboarding stuff in the winter. and i saw a deal on amazon for 230bucks couple months ago, should have bought it but i guess i will wait for another deal coming up in the holidays
Click to expand...

way cool, sounds like you've got plenty of stuff to use it with. I can't speak about n-flight cam since i've never used it.

GoPro 2 I like in particular because it has a water-proof case included in the standard package; worked well at the beach. Besides the waterproof case, it also comes standard with a "vented" case - make sure the camera has the right case if you take it in the water (I won't forget that again).

One last thing, gopro 2 has a mic input as well. With the right cable, you can connect your radios to the gopro mic input. For that you need a separate case which does not come standard with gopro 2.
 
This is not intended as any kind of criticism only a question, but can't you feel what the flaps are doing on a Cessna?

I believe it's really bad form to just put some flaps in for example and let the aircraft ballon up, I much prefer to see the yoke pushed down hard enough to compensate. Same with raising them, the pitch change should be apparent and require compensation. I just run the trim switch at the same time as the flap lever (if you have one). Otherwise, I just muscle the yoke to maintain attitude as before and do it manually. If they don't respond to a change in the selector, then the lack of change should also be felt instantly.

The goal in my mind is to be able to cycle the flaps up or down completely without the passenger, instructor, DPE, whatever, feeling anything.
 
Alexb2000 said:
This is not intended as any kind of criticism only a question, but can't you feel what the flaps are doing on a Cessna?
Click to expand...

Yes. You can feel the drag/deceleration, hear the difference in the airflow over the wing, and see the airspeed indicator change... when putting them down in flight.

Pulling them up on the ground, the motor may be heard, but usually with a headset on it's easy to miss it or the brain filter it out along with other noise. It's better to look.
 
denverpilot said:
Yes. You can feel the drag/deceleration, hear the difference in the airflow over the wing, and see the airspeed indicator change... when putting them down in flight.

Pulling them up on the ground, the motor may be heard, but usually with a headset on it's easy to miss it or the brain filter it out along with other noise. It's better to look.
Click to expand...

Of course, no question on the ground. I was just referring to flight.
 
Great videos.

If you'd like to stop the annoying propeller artifacting, get yourself a sheet of Neutral Density gel filter (I found the '.9' to work best), cut out a circle about the size of a nickel, and stick it in the case between the camera lens and the case. It cuts the amount of light making its way to the sensor, which forces the camera to use a lower "shutter speed" which blurs out the prop. Something like http://www.adorama.com/RO3404.html
 
Curiosity, do you not shout "clear prop" prior to starting the engine? I saw u look right, but didn't really notice u clear left. Gonna get back to watching the vid now!
 
Banjo33 said:
Curiosity, do you not shout "clear prop" prior to starting the engine? I saw u look right, but didn't really notice u clear left. Gonna get back to watching the vid now!
Click to expand...

You're right, the "clear prop!" call is not in the video. There are other things that I left out from the posted video (and included some that are mundane).

I do call out "clear prop" and the school requires that we tow the planes from their parked position to the taxi centerline to help reduce the effect of prop wash.
 
Rick Rademacher said:
I also like to use the Hero2. Will try their new Wi-Fi PacPac with the camera on my next flight.

http://vimeo.com/42905642
Click to expand...

Outsantding, loved the video: the playback quality, the off-axis mount and, of course, the plane and the flying :D.

After you do get to play with the WiFi back, can you post your experience with it? Thanks!
 
Wingsiwant, when there is no wind it is possible that you are drifting left of centerline by not pulling the yoke back evenly. Sometimes as a person pulls their left hand back they also turn their wrist slightly down. I haven't watched the vids yet, I'm fixin to. Pull your hand back in the plane while sitting still as if you were landing and notice how your hand/wrist moves. I did that as a student and I have students do that... It's very subtle.

Also, make sure that you are looking straight in front of you not at an angle thru the nose cone for alignment

PS: ok, I just watched your hand so it's not that necessarily. Must be your view or the wind. Have the instructor land it where all you do is look at the view for centerline or on takeoff roll make that last a while and look yourself how the centerline appears and keep that site picture for landing.

Good video too by the way!
 
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