Flying the Magenta Line

Everskyward said:
I also learned exclusively with needles. I've never tried just using just the magenta line. I find that I only glance at the moving map for a general reference but would never try to fly off of it. I'm not even sure what people are taught as far as using the moving map any more. It seems that some use it as their primary instrument for navigation which is the opposite of anything I ever learned.

If you were teaching a new instrument student, what technique would you tell them to use regarding the CDI/HSI vs. the moving map?
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Since needles are required for the approach that's what they learn. Only after they master that are the other options introduced for situational awareness purposes....and as an emergency backup if the panel goes dark.
 
azure said:
On my instrument checkride the DPE made sure I was using the CDI coupled to the NAV receiver.
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After reading this thread, if I was instructing someone, or an examiner, the first thing I would fail would be the moving map. Of course they are probably way ahead of me in realizing what pilots are looking at these days and do that already.
 
azure said:
If you have cross-track error as well as DTK and TRK, the ML can probably be more precise. But as I'm sure you know, there are often significant differences between the GPS-calculated course and the actual radial of a VOR approach, probably because of not taking into account station declination. The ML my 480 generates for the VOR 27 @ KFNT, for example, is about 5 degrees north of the real approach course. On my instrument checkride the DPE made sure I was using the CDI coupled to the NAV receiver.
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The approaches built into the 295 always overlaid the VOR courses very accurately. Excellent backup for situational awareness.
 
The only comment I'll make is that it seems that when I climb up to peek in the cockpit of a Gulfstream or look at pictures of panels in what I would consider very high end aircraft there always seems to be a little handheld Garmin x96 hanging off a suction cup mount somewhere - magenta line and all.
 
Everskyward said:
Do you mean your heading?
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No. Maybe I'm using the word "bearing" incorrectly, but in track up mode, the magenta line on a GNS-430 is vertical if your track over the ground is parallel to your desired ground track. I don't think that model of GPS knows what the heading of the airplane is.

(Note that this method won't work if you set the moving map to DTK up, because in that case the desired ground track will always be vertical regardless of the direction the airplane is actually traveling.)

Is that something you were taught or something you came up with on your own?
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I came up with it on my own.

I always figured that the CDI needle was what you should be mainly using, and the moving map was just for general reference. I don't think it matters if you are VFR since you don't need moving maps or needles at all but it's interesting to me that people would even consider the moving map as the primary means of navigation when IFR.
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I was never all that clear on the definition of "primary," but what I do for both VFR and IFR is that I use the CDI to see whether I am on course, and if the plane I am flying has a moving map with track up capability, I keep the magenta line vertical as an aid in keeping the CDI centered. I don't look solely at one or the other.

It's analogous to what I was taught to do when flying instrument approaches (before moving maps were available). I was taught to determine a reference heading that would hold the needle centered, and to keep the heading indicator on the reference heading as an aid in keeping the CDI centered. I still do that when I am flying a non-GPS approach. On a GPS approach, or while enroute, a moving map in track up mode effectively automates the process of determining the reference heading.

By the way, if the OP was referring to the thead I think he was, the person who talked about flying the magenta line was just starting her instrument training, so there's probably no need to read too much into the terminology she used.
 
Palmpilot said:
If someone said that, I missed it.
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There were some comments a few pages back implying that the moving map was far superior and anyone who would use a CDI over the moving map was a dinosaur. It would seem that those of us who are instrument pilots seem to agree that they are two different tools to have in the toolbox.
 
Regardless of what equipment the plane has, I have found that there is no substitute for a good scan, and that's the skill that takes the most work to maintain proficiency in.
 
I really dont believe that the magenta line on the moving map was meant for precision navigation. At least I dont use it when flying approaches or en route. However, I like to glance at the moving map for situational awareness. Its an extra tool.
 
I'm a child of the magenta line. I got both my PPL and instrument rating on a plane with a G1000. I would never fly the moving map on an approach. Practicing partial panel with the AHRS inop, I'll use the track as part of my scan but that's the only time I'll incorporate the MFD into an approach past the FAF.

Of course I'm declaring and having the trucks rolled if I ever have to fly a real approach in IMC without the capability of putting the flight path marker on the end of the runway and going through the green/magenta rectangles.
 
Wingsofglass said:
I'm a child of the magenta line. I got both my PPL and instrument rating on a plane with a G1000. I would never fly the moving map on an approach. Practicing partial panel with the AHRS inop, I'll use the track as part of my scan but that's the only time I'll incorporate the MFD into an approach past the FAF.

Of course I'm declaring and having the trucks rolled if I ever have to fly a real approach in IMC without the capability of putting the flight path marker on the end of the runway and going through the green/magenta rectangles.
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You forgot the sarcasm icon.

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Which Gulfstream cockpits are you perusing? G-1 or G-2?
Silvaire said:
The only comment I'll make is that it seems that when I climb up to peek in the cockpit of a Gulfstream or look at pictures of panels in what I would consider very high end aircraft there always seems to be a little handheld Garmin x96 hanging off a suction cup mount somewhere - magenta line and all.
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wabower said:
Which Gulfstream cockpits are you perusing? G-1 or G-2?
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and the other day I saw the inside of a new G550 and it was sporting dual ADF's. Wonder what many here would think of that.
 
This is one of the dumbest threads ever. If you have a 430, or 530, the magenta line and the CDI is the same! It's just displayed differently. Please, people, do we really need to beat each other up over stupid crap like this? No wonder people don't sign up to be new pilots. Who the hell wants to put up with goofy criticism like this?

People that like to fly the magenta line, please do! It's very accurate and easy to do.

People that like to fly the needles, please do! It's very accurate and you can stay connected to the old days and look down on other pilots.

I guess it's progress that we've moved beyond whether or not we should trust GPS, or not. With aviation, it seems to be itty, bitty baby steps, so I should be happy.:rolleyes::mad2:
 
Dav8or said:
This is one of the dumbest threads ever. If you have a 430, or 530, the magenta line and the CDI is the same! It's just displayed differently. Please, people, do we really need to beat each other up over stupid crap like this? No wonder people don't sign up to be new pilots. Who the hell wants to put up with goofy criticism like this?

People that like to fly the magenta line, please do! It's very accurate and easy to do.

People that like to fly the needles, please do! It's very accurate and you can stay connected to the old days and look down on other pilots.

I guess it's progress that we've moved beyond whether or not we should trust GPS, or not. With aviation, it seems to be itty, bitty baby steps, so I should be happy.:rolleyes::mad2:
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Great post! Now get over to the Landing Light thread and fix it! How can people talk about changing a light bulb for 14 pages?!


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Dav8or said:
This is one of the dumbest threads ever.
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If it is so dumb, why on earth are you trying to perpetuate it???

The bulk of the discussion completed its life cycle over two weeks ago.

Only thing sillier than debating the subject is someone who complains about it while at the same time attempting to perpetuate it.
 
Not to show my age, but....
I remember the same kind of "theological" discussions when ADF, VOR, TACAN and Loran came on line.
"Anyone who would trust their life with (insert technology here) is a fool."

Glenn
 
Silvaire said:
The only comment I'll make is that it seems that when I climb up to peek in the cockpit of a Gulfstream or look at pictures of panels in what I would consider very high end aircraft there always seems to be a little handheld Garmin x96 hanging off a suction cup mount somewhere - magenta line and all.
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I walked onto a puddle jumper airliner carrying my 496. I wanted to see how it worked on the flight. The copilot said it had more capability than the panel on the plane. I thought he was kidding, but he said no, they had 2 of them up front. :D
 
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Geico266 said:
I walked onto a puddle jumper airliner carrying my 496. I wanted to see how it worked on the flight. The copilot said it had more capability than the panel on the plane. I thought he was kidding, but he said no, they had 2 of them up front. :lol:
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GA avionics capabilities have rapidly outpaced the stuff you find in most 121 cockpits. I suspect the certification process and cost for getting stuff approved to put into those cockpits has a lot to do with the lag in capability.
 
If you have a 430, or 530, the magenta line and the CDI is the same! It's just displayed differently.
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Actually not.

I suggest you find a local CFII to explain a TSO-C129a GPS's Enroute, Terminal, and Approach CDI modes. Also note the effect of the range button (Garmin) or scale knob on the relative positions of the little airplane and the magenta line.

Yes, you can turn the map display into a sort of micky-mouse CDI by cranking the scale to the point where it no longer is a map, but why would you?
 
:yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::eek::eek::eek:I fly the synthetic vision all the way to the runway. forget about magenta lines when you can have the computer automatically vmc the imc.:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::hairraise::hairraise::hairraise:
 
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