Flying the Cherokee SIX, any hints/tips?

[MSPAviator]

I'm going to be flying a Cherokee Six -260 with a CFI next week to get checked out in it. I'm looking for any tips, tricks, and hints for this airplane from preflight to landing. What airspeeds to fly, what power settings to use, etc.

I have about 220 hours and most of that time is in Cessna 152, Decathlon, and Mooney J time (in that order). I've flown Warriors and Arrows before but I wouldn't say I'm super proficient or knowledgeable about PA-28s.

The plane is an older 260hp model with MPH airspeed gauges and the Hershey bar wing. The plane is stock with the exception of an STC'ed Hartzel 3 bladed Top Prop. I've already read the POH.

I think my fuel tank strategy will be to takeoff on the left main till cruise. Drain the right tip tank till it's empty. Drain the left tip till it's empty. Then equalize the right main. And switch between the mains to keep them near equal but if I have to make use of all the gas, I'd drain the left main tank first.

Let me know if I'm on the right track.

 

[DavidWhite]

I run 2400RPM/WOT throttle.

You can be sloppy on final. I don't even look at the airspeed indicator other than to verify you are in the white arc. It slows down so fast you won't float even if you come down at 110mph. (I usually am right around 85-90)

It's basically the antithesis of the Mooney. It's as exciting to fly as a dump truck.

Burn the mains first, period. Makes for a smoother ride (dont ask me why)

 

[AcroGimp]

During your preflight make sure nobody left a baby grand piano in the rear cargo area. ;^)

In all seriousness, watch weight and balance and follow the checklist recommendations for fuel, other than that it is a big Cherokee.

'Gimp

 

[Ghery]

If it lands like an Arrow with Hershey bar wings you won't have to worry about bouncing a landing. "Arrivals", on the other hand...

 

[kenjr]

I fly a 235 - assuming the Six is fairly similar (mine's a 64 so hershey wings, O-540)...when you pull power, expect to float like a rock with wings. I think the 235 is something like a 7:1 glide ratio, so if you're doing any power off landings, fly tight patterns.

The 235 is pretty docile. I, and many others, tend to like a little bit of power all the way down - that's about the only way I can get a 'kiss' with the main gear and keep the nose off for any amount of time. Pulling power for me over the numbers has just never worked well - the elevator gets mushy. Ground effect will be more pronounced and you'll feel it earlier than in the Cessna's. If you carry too much power down you'll float for miles.

It's a gently plane - as someone said, about as exciting as flying a dump truck. After a few laps and you'll be a pro.

 

[James_Dean]

Make sure your checkout explores all corners of the W&B envelope. She's a different bird when she's good and fat.

 

[weilke]

Make sure your checkout explores all corners of the W&B envelope. She's a different bird when she's good and fat.

The problem with flying the Six at MTOW for a checkout is that 600lbs of fertilizer bags is a bear to lug in and out of the aircraft. Now, if you have access to flight students or other hapless victims, it is a bit easier (self loading cargo) . Otoh, the fertilizer bags dont complain when you take the plane through a stall series.

Yes, make sure to find out how the plane flies near max weight and when you are not right at the front end of the CG envelope (like you typically are with only an instructor). I found that the plane flies a bit better with some ballast in the luggage compartment.

Piper should have put a window in the footwell, like you would find on a helicopter. Because if the engine quits, what you see under your feet is where you are going to land .

 

[kenjr]

...should have mentioned too...

1) Trim
2) Trim
3) Trim
4) ...you guessed it. Trim.

 

[BillTIZ]

...should have mentioned too...

1) Trim
2) Trim
3) Trim
4) ...you guessed it. Trim.

It's a truck.
I've flown 6-300 and Lance (T-tail two tanks).
Follow the POH recommendations on switching between the 4 tanks. I think you'll want to drain most of the mains first.

 

[timwinters]

Get your CDL

 

[jasont]

They are a piece of cake to fly. They are different heavy and light..so flying at both sides of the spectrum will help you get comfortable with it.

 

[PilotAlan]

The Cherokee 6 is very sensitive to loading the cargo area.
Objects must be loaded in such a fashion that the doors can be closed prior to taxi.

 

[LDJones]

The Cherokee 6 is very sensitive to loading the cargo area.
Objects must be loaded in such a fashion that the doors can be closed prior to taxi.

And leaning heavily on the rear doors to get them shut is allowed.

Seriously, it's a good airplane. When fully loaded, you're herding some significant inertia around the sky. Some like to carry just a touch of power at touchdown to get a squeaker.

 

[Jeff K]

The Cherokee 6 is very sensitive to loading the cargo area.
Objects must be loaded in such a fashion that the doors can be closed prior to taxi.

Actually.... you are allowed to removed the rear doors if I recall the POH (for skydivers).

Good advice here in the thread. I'll second it's a different airplane at gross. I used bags of rocks to test fly it at gross (unlike sand if you get a leak it's not a mess or corrosive like fertilizer).

At gross it's easy to get behind the power curve if you rotate at the numbers. I generally let it go 5mph above the book numbers for rotation then I held it in ground effect until Vx before I climbed. After I could no longer make the runway I would gently push it down to Vy. A little more runway perhaps but the pucker factor is greatly reduced. The PA32-260 is under powered at gross.

 

[Skylane81E]

Learn the definition of "zero fuel weight"

One of the few piston singles where you will encounter it.

 

[taters]

I think my fuel tank strategy will be to takeoff on the left main till cruise. Drain the right tip tank till it's empty. Drain the left tip till it's empty. Then equalize the right main. And switch between the mains to keep them near equal but if I have to make use of all the gas, I'd drain the left main tank first.

Let me know if I'm on the right track.

after the tips are dry. I wouldn't worry about equalizing the mains..in fact the slight imbalance is an advantage from the standpoint of knowing you have accessible, usable fuel somewhere in a fuel emergency.....other than that I second the advice of trimming properly (don't forget the rudder trim). And of course run that engine right....its still a Cherokee.

 

[Jeff K]

I think my fuel tank strategy will be to takeoff on the left main till cruise. Drain the right tip tank till it's empty. Drain the left tip till it's empty. Then equalize the right main. And switch between the mains to keep them near equal but if I have to make use of all the gas, I'd drain the left main tank first.

Let me know if I'm on the right track.

You might want to follow the POH instead. Depending on the year, most instruct you to use the mains first, then the tips.

 

[weilke]

You might want to follow the POH instead. Depending on the year, most instruct you to use the mains first, then the tips.

The reason for that goes to the same issue as the zero fuel weight. Weight in the wing-tips doesn't contribute to the wing bending moment at the wing root. If you have the cabin loaed to the max and full main tanks, you have maximized the moment.

 

[kenjr]

I have a 64 235 with 4 tanks (84 gal) and the POH says to empty the tips first then the mains. I takeoff/land on the mains then switch and empty tips then go back to the other main I haven't used. I always know I have (at least) an hour of fuel in the right main and I switch to that during my landing checklist.

 

[BillTIZ]

I have a 64 235 with 4 tanks (84 gal) and the POH says to empty the tips first then the mains. I takeoff/land on the mains then switch and empty tips then go back to the other main I haven't used. I always know I have (at least) an hour of fuel in the right main and I switch to that during my landing checklist.

You have a "235", not a Sixie. Most older Six's with 4 tanks call for reducing fuel in the mains first, then the tips.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

Two items:

CG.........if you're doing your checkout, throw some weight in the back. The plane flies so much better with an aft CG.

Weight....load it up to max and fly it around. All of a sudden, 260 or 300 hp won't feel like a lot. Get a low go around at max weight in.

 

[brcase]

Practice your engine out proceedures a lot and then frequently. They are exciting.
Something like toss the keys out and follow them down.

Brian

 

[Apache123]

Sorry to rez an old thread, but this one seems appropriate.

Does anyone have real-world experience with the performance differences between the 260 and 300? I'm curious if there's really much difference in speed/fuel-burn/etc., or if climb performance was the biggest factor. I know they're both pretty similar in gross and useful.

 

[jasont]

Sorry to rez an old thread, but this one seems appropriate.

Does anyone have real-world experience with the performance differences between the 260 and 300? I'm curious if there's really much difference in speed/fuel-burn/etc., or if climb performance was the biggest factor. I know they're both pretty similar in gross and useful.

Service ceiling on a 260 is really 8-9k, the 300 is about 2-3k more. The 300 climbs better...maybe 150-200fpm and its about 5 knots faster and burns 2-3 gph more. Also, the 300 is fuel injected, so no carb ice.

 

[bobmrg]

I have a 64 235 with 4 tanks (84 gal) and the POH says to empty the tips first then the mains. I takeoff/land on the mains then switch and empty tips then go back to the other main I haven't used. I always know I have (at least) an hour of fuel in the right main and I switch to that during my landing checklist.

Comparing apples and oranges.

Bob Gardner

 

[weilke]

Does anyone have real-world experience with the performance differences between the 260 and 300? I'm curious if there's really much difference in speed/fuel-burn/etc., or if climb performance was the biggest factor. I know they're both pretty similar in gross and useful.

On paper, 260s have higher useful loads than 300s of the same vintage. A loaded 260 is however not a lot of fun to get off the runway.

Maintenance on the carburetered engine is maybe a couple of cents less per hour (overhauls on the bendix servo are pricey, fuel injectors are typically cleaned, there is a difference in the overhaul cost etc.). It is the same airframe and both engines have almost the same compression ratios, if you throttle a 300 back to 260 speeds you are going to burn about the same amount of fuel per hour.

If you either happen to have a set of balanced injectors or you get a set of GAMIjectors, you can fly a 300 LOP if you adhere to the belief that that is advantageous. The 260 with its uneven length intake runners, may or may not run LOP at all (the legitimate question exists whether there is any difference between running a lycoming at best economy settings vs running LOP at all).

 

[Billcanady]

I have a Cherokee Six 260. N3874W. I love the plane. Flys like a dream. By that, I mean it is very stable even during significant crosswinds. It's a great IRF platform. I typically fly it 23 squared for cruise. I generally expect 130 - 135 knots at @14.5 gph. If I am in a hurry, I'll run it up to 25 squared. It will typically hit 140 -145 knots. Of course, it depends on the winds. On approach, i will slow it down and fly 21 mp and 23 rpm. At the IAF, I will generally take it to 19 / 23 to lose the altitude and at FAF I'll pull it back to 15 (maybe as low as 12 depending on the wind). Once it settles, I'll push the rpm to 25. As it crosses the fence, I start to pull the MP power back gently (flies like a greased crowbar - so don't pull off to quickly) and grease the landing.

I typically fly between 6 and 9K feet. It's not a fast plane, but is a very comfortable plane.

 

[mrtyler]

Greetings!

I'll use my first post to bump the thread that convinced me to create an account at POA.

My flying club recently got a Cherokee Six. Having recently gotten my HP endorsement in the club's 182s, I was eager to try it out on the low-wing side of the aisle. This thread was useful in preparing for my first checkout flight, but I also laughed pretty hard at a few of the comments:

It's as exciting to fly as a dump truck.

The problem with flying the Six at MTOW for a checkout is that 600lbs of fertilizer bags is a bear to lug in and out of the aircraft. Now, if you have access to flight students or other hapless victims, it is a bit easier (self loading cargo) . Otoh, the fertilizer bags dont complain when you take the plane through a stall series.

Piper should have put a window in the footwell, like you would find on a helicopter. Because if the engine quits, what you see under your feet is where you are going to land .

The Cherokee 6 is very sensitive to loading the cargo area.

Objects must be loaded in such a fashion that the doors can be closed prior to taxi.

Anyway, a few notes from my first 2.7 hours in this type:

* Having struggled a bit while learning the 182 to incorporate cowl flaps into my flow, I was a little disappointed to find that Sixes don't have them. The POH explains:

Cowling on the Cherokee Six is designed to cool the engine in all normal flight conditions, including protracted climb, without the use of cowl flaps or cooling flanges.

You can almost see where the copy editor calmly marked out "...unlike the Skylane, lol" at the end of the quoted paragraph.


* The fun of four separate fuel tanks lead to my first real fuel "starvation" moment. My instructor flipped the fuel selector in what I'm sure was less than a second and the engine barely had a chance to sputter, but it was an eye-opening experience nonetheless. Fuel management will be a point of emphasis for me on the next flight.


* DavidWhite talked about approach speeds:

It slows down so fast you won't float even if you come down at 110mph.

On one of my approaches, I was a little high even after pulling to idle and dropping all the flaps. The CFI said, "Watch this. My airplane." Then he shoved the yoke forward.

In the other stuff I've flown, 152s and Archers and even 182s, this is a recipe for a long float and probably a go-around. In the flying dump truck, the needle never left the white arc. The CFI relaxed the forward pressure and gave the controls back to me as we crossed the threshold. I found myself looking at a familiar picture view of the runway and a manageable 85 knots on the ASI. We landed a little long but I still made the turn with almost no braking.


If the weather holds, I've got some friends lined up as ballast for a fat xc this weekend.

 

[JHW]

As has been said but maybe not believed by all - use every drop of fuel from both mains before touching the tips. When fuelling, top the tips and put the balance of what you need into one or both mains. Its easy to spot the people who dont follow this advice - the tops of the wings are covered with with diamond patches.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

Oh....it's a big fat kitten.....wheeze.....wheeze

 

[Sam D]

Welcome to POA mrtyler!

 

[mswmsw]

The Cherokee Six is a great airplane. My very first 135 job over 40 years ago was flying cargo - usually auto parts - in a Cherokee Six all over the northeast part of the USA. I always knew it would make a nice family airplane, and I bought a 1979 PA32-300 over 20 years ago. Still have it, have taken many family trips in it over the past couple of decades, but the kids are grown and gone, and it's just not used as much anymore, probably going to sell it soon. But I'd highly recommend it to anyone who wants the airborne equivalent of a Chevy Suburban.