Flying over KNTD Point Mugu Airspace

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James Darren

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James Darren
Hi all,

Is it ok to fly over Point Mugu KNTD military Class D airspace? Their airspace goes up to 3000ft & I was planning to fly at 3500ft eastbound & 4500ft westbound.

Obviously I'd be going around the R-2519 restricted area, see attached image for my intended flight path.

Asking as I'm extra cautious when I'm around military airspace.

Thanks...
 

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Class D's no problem to overfly. Like you said, just stay out of R-2519 unless you have permission (LA Center, 135.5). It's SFC-Unlimited, 24/7.
 
Class D is Class D.

Contact Tower, go through it unless told not to. Unless there is a lot of activity in the airspace at that particular time, odds are, you'll transition with no problem.

If the field didn't want you in the airspace, it would be restricted, not just Class D. Like KEDW.
 
If I do want to transition across the coastline through the R-2519 airspace, do I contact KNTD on 124.85 or LA Center on 135.5?
 
Maybe monitor the tower freq as you pass over or just give them a heads up. You can fly over no problem above 3000, but being only 3500, it may be nice to let them know.
 
I fly that route there abouts almost every two weeks or so. Assuming you avoid the R airspace legally you can fly the route in question without talking to a soul.

Practically, I would not fly that route without flight following...but that is just me. There always seems to be a lot of low flying VFR and IFR traffic around all of the surrounding airports like OXR and CAR.
 
Last edited:
James Darren said:
Hi all,

Is it ok to fly over Point Mugu KNTD military Class D airspace? Their airspace goes up to 3000ft & I was planning to fly at 3500ft eastbound & 4500ft westbound.

Obviously I'd be going around the R-2519 restricted area, see attached image for my intended flight path.

Asking as I'm extra cautious when I'm around military airspace.

Thanks...
Click to expand...

Yup.

I've flown through quite a few millitary deltas, more often they are actually more accommodating compared to their civilian counterparts.
 
James Darren said:
If I do want to transition across the coastline through the R-2519 airspace, do I contact KNTD on 124.85 or LA Center on 135.5?
Click to expand...

See the TAC chart or Sectional. LA Center on 135.5. BTW- R-2519 is an active missile test range so if they say it's hot, don't try to go around on the Warning Area side. It will not end well.
 
Check NTD's operating hours. It used to be 6:00am to 10:00pm but it's been a while since I've been there. I highly reccommend contacting NTD approach on 124.85 for your transit. As mentioned above, if the restricted area is hot you don't even want to think about going around on the warning area side. NTD does some stuff you don't want to mess with. It's an easy transit working with approach control.
 
Depending on what controller is on duty, they will usually automatically clear you through the restricted if it's cold. At times it can be a busy area. Passing through at that altitude, I would be talking to someone if I were you
 
47PILOT said:
At times it can be a busy area. Passing through at that altitude, I would be talking to someone if I were you
Click to expand...

This is a good point. I'm not familiar with this specific airspace, but while legally we may be able to treat military delta as any old delta, depending on the operations in the area extra caution may be in order. Vance and Sheppard AFBs for example are both Class D airports but if you are going a few hundred feet over the top during a weekday you are going to have dozens of airplanes around you, some flying at 300 knots. You'll all be trying to avoid each other but getting flight following or checking in with the tower is cheap insurance.
 
Oh
My
God....

'Look out! Another plane may be in the air! Gosh, I better call someone, ask someone, check with someone just in case my flying will get in the way!'

Whhhhhuuuuuuaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Crybabies.

Fly the @!^$%&! plane.
 
docmirror said:
Oh
My
God....

'Look out! Another plane may be in the air! Gosh, I better call someone, ask someone, check with someone just in case my flying will get in the way!'

Whhhhhuuuuuuaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Crybabies.

Fly the @!^$%&! plane.
Click to expand...

Those of us that are not omnipotent don't see an issue with taking additional steps to mitigate risk. See and avoid is the best option, but the majority of the time in around these bases it is the military aircraft avoiding you...
 
Like those aircraft talking to appr/tower down in Frederick. Yeah - that saved them.
 
JasonM said:
Maybe monitor the tower freq as you pass over or just give them a heads up. You can fly over no problem above 3000, but being only 3500, it may be nice to let them know.
Click to expand...

Negative on the "heads up." One of tower controller's pet peeves is a call from someone not in their airspace.

Bob Gardner
 
bobmrg said:
Negative on the "heads up." One of tower controller's pet peeves is a call from someone not in their airspace.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...

Once or twice I've heard a controller giving another aircraft a traffic advisory including "intentions unknown", where I am piloting the aircraft causing the advisory but outside of the controller's airspace. I typically call up the controller and state my tail number and intentions in that situation. Still not recommended?
 
Flying Viking said:
Once or twice I've heard a controller giving another aircraft a traffic advisory including "intentions unknown", where I am piloting the aircraft causing the advisory but outside of the controller's airspace. I typically call up the controller and state my tail number and intentions in that situation. Still not recommended?
Click to expand...

If going through R-2519, call up LA Center to check Restricted Status. Otherwise, Mugu tower would much rather you were on FF with Mugu APP on 124.7. Same person, different scope.
 
I understand that military bases can make you think twice, but ultimately, you're planning on flying through Class E airspace. There are no communication requirements.
 
The folks at Mugu tower are friendly and helpful.. Always a good idea to communicate with them when approaching Mugu airspace. Tends to be something coming off the range hot on occasion. I keep my bird at OXR and fly across Mugu occasionally.
 
While you're at it, I think Mugu has a PAR approach, might want to try your hand at that while your in the neighborhood.
 
James331 said:
While you're at it, I think Mugu has a PAR approach, might want to try your hand at that while your in the neighborhood.
Click to expand...

Military Controllers are always trying to make their minimums as well for PAR's this is always a nice idea if you can do it...even if you are VFR only and have a check pilot and maintain VFR conditions...its a great thing for both controller and Pilot...
 
Flying Viking said:
Once or twice I've heard a controller giving another aircraft a traffic advisory including "intentions unknown", where I am piloting the aircraft causing the advisory but outside of the controller's airspace. I typically call up the controller and state my tail number and intentions in that situation. Still not recommended?
Click to expand...

Yep. However, if you were on flight following this discussion would be moot because the controller would know your intentions. Another reason to use this free service.

Bob
 
Also keep in mind that if guys are shooting approaches (or even practice approaches) there is a giant arc on the TACAN approach (12-13 NM if memory serves) that loops around the field to the NW/N and then intercepts final. Probably not a big deal, just something to be aware of.
 
I used to fly through their airspace all the time. Of course that was back in the late 50's when I was in the Marine Aviation Detachment.:goofy:
 
I still fly over Mugu... The only time I avoid the airspace is when ATAC is flying... Great pilots, old tired aircraft, and so-so maintenance on their birds.. Their history demonstrates quite a few losses. I would occasionally drive the Mugu flight line (before I retired) wearing my EAA hat, and the mechanics would freak out thinking I was FAA (some folks can't read)..
 
There is no such thing as "military class D" airspace. It is just Class D airspace, not Restricted or Prohibited airspace. All normal rules apply. They will either let you transition it or they won't.
 
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