Flying Over Gross

flyingcheesehead said:
Better go with 75% of speed - You need 70.71% if you started EXACTLY on the very edge of the pavement at the beginning of the runway and you're going to reach takeoff speed just in time to lift off from the very edge of the pavement at the other end of the runway.

Better yet, also know how much runway it's going to take to abort, and if you're not off by then, abort.

DA and weight will both have a large effect on takeoff acceleration and climb performance.

BTW, one example of extreme overgross operation: Max Conrad flew a Comanche 250 loaded to around DOUBLE its certified max gross weight with fuel, and flew nonstop from Casablanca (Morocco, NW Africa) to Los Angeles. IIRC, it took him most of 8,000 feet to get airborne.
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How was this calculation derived?
 
Being realistic about the materiality of the overage can help with the decision-making. 40# is somewhere in the range of 1.5% of gross weight for most light airplanes. If it's in the middle of the envelope, do you really need to worry about it? How thin does this stuff need to be sliced?

HerrGruyere said:
I reckon I would have gotten away with about 40 pounds overweight. But, I always err on the side of safety. I'm not in a position to take risks!
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wabower said:
Being realistic about the materiality of the overage can help with the decision-making. 40# is somewhere in the range of 1.5% of gross weight for most light airplanes. If it's in the middle of the envelope, do you really need to worry about it? How thin does this stuff need to be sliced?
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If I skip lunch, I will be able to carry another QT of fuel. That gives me another 45 seconds of flight time. Could make all the difference.
 
JHW said:
If I skip lunch, I will be able to carry another QT of fuel. That gives me another 45 seconds of flight time. Could make all the difference.
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I dare you to put it on your W&B report
 
If we're using that metric, after about a week I could non-stop to China.

JHW said:
If I skip lunch, I will be able to carry another QT of fuel. That gives me another 45 seconds of flight time. Could make all the difference.
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Didn't you previously say something about intestinal decompression at altitude? I'm sure that was you:rofl:
 
Jaybird180 said:
Didn't you previously say something about intestinal decompression at altitude? I'm sure that was you:rofl:
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Actions speak louder than words, Grasshopper. Jump in any time and you'll see.
 
I've flown at gross. It was sluggish getting off the ground especially when it was 95* out.. but I'd rather know that I'm not gonna run out of fuel than be under gross. CG was good too. Had a 9000 foot runway and did have to abort first take off because of some nosewheel shimmy but was off before midfield. I think there are a lot of people who have only done strict training and strict rentals (requiring a W&B and a flight plan) and haven't gotten to experience stuff on their own. If I only flew at 70% all of the time I think I'd feel like I wasted a bunch of money on an airplane that can hold a good amount of weight.
 
If you thought weight was the reason it was sluggish at 95F you might have been reading the wrong newspaper.

Z06_Mir said:
I've flown at gross. It was sluggish getting off the ground especially when it was 95* out.. but I'd rather know that I'm not gonna run out of fuel than be under gross. CG was good too. Had a 9000 foot runway and did have to abort first take off because of some nosewheel shimmy but was off before midfield. I think there are a lot of people who have only done strict training and strict rentals (requiring a W&B and a flight plan) and haven't gotten to experience stuff on their own. If I only flew at 70% all of the time I think I'd feel like I wasted a bunch of money on an airplane that can hold a good amount of weight.
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wabower said:
If you thought weight was the reason it was sluggish at 95F you might have been reading the wrong newspaper.
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You shoulda seen it even at 70% load at KAPA on a 100* day. Poor girl wasn't interesting in climbing till the gear came up :rofl:
 
Many moons ago the missus thought sure we would hit the mountain after taking off to the west from old Denver Stapleton. She was quite relieved when I told her we would turn before reaching the foothills. July 6, temps about the same as yours, initial climb rate less than energetic in a N/A 210.





Z06_Mir said:
You shoulda seen it even at 70% load at KAPA on a 100* day. Poor girl wasn't interesting in climbing till the gear came up :rofl:
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Z06_Mir said:
I've flown at gross. It was sluggish getting off the ground especially when it was 95* out.. but I'd rather know that I'm not gonna run out of fuel than be under gross. CG was good too. Had a 9000 foot runway and did have to abort first take off because of some nosewheel shimmy but was off before midfield. I think there are a lot of people who have only done strict training and strict rentals (requiring a W&B and a flight plan) and haven't gotten to experience stuff on their own. If I only flew at 70% all of the time I think I'd feel like I wasted a bunch of money on an airplane that can hold a good amount of weight.
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Great point. In the event that you're solo and can't reach gross weight with full fuel, I'd recommend throwing some sandbags in the back seat to get the weight up.

It makes as much sense as the amount of fuel some people tanker around "just because the plane will carry it"
 
JHW said:
It makes as much sense as the amount of fuel some people tanker around "just because the plane will carry it"
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I find extra fuel by far more useful than a human weighing me down.
 
denverpilot said:
Smaller folk than you or I can do it with the right front seat empty and a pair of rather large lovebirds and full baggage aft. If the lovebirds fit. ;)

In my 182, I'd have to lose 20 lbs myself, put two 300 lb folk in the back seats, 200 more lbs in the rear, and I'd only have 13 gal of fuel on board. VFR reserves means, it'd be a 1/2 hour flight. That's as far aft as I can get it.

That's right at the rear CG limit, and honestly I've never gotten it there, not even by design for practice.

Not to mention... the tail would probably be sitting on the ground before I got in, unless I put weights in my seat until everyone and everything was loaded. ;)

With the LR tanks, I can get it over the top of the slope in the forward CG trapezoid with a 224 lb pax and full fuel (80 gallons) with nothing aft. I do have to watch that.

5 lbs at Baggage 2 will get me 9 lbs more of right front pax. 45 lbs of stuff at Baggage 2 gets me completely under the "knuckle" in the trapezoid and can do a 300 lb pax plus me, plus full fuel then.

I can't load it forward enough to get to the hard forward CG at all, ever. It's limited by fuel on board only.
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So, you've clearly run some scenarios, which I was saying is a good idea. ;)

As far as the differences between our airplanes, remember that yours is heavier than mine to begin with. Sounds like your CG might be slightly farther forward as well.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Impressive! I haven't been able to find any specs on your aircraft.
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I am still in development so I don't release a whole lot of critical data until I get further along in the program.....

It does have over 400+ hours and 60,000 miles on it so far and all signs show it to be rather successful.. Considering this is the only one like it on the entire planet, and unlike Boeing or Cessna or all the other aeronautical businesses that employ 10's of thousands to develop new and cutting edge hardware, I am just a one person show and I take testing, documenting, perfecting the package really seriously.....

Is this a great country or what ?:yes::wink2:
 
Interesting thread with lots of twists and turns as is typical here.

I've only flown over Gross once in my flying career. I was on a heading of 010 and soon found myself over South Dakota. ;)
 
N801BH said:
I am still in development so I don't release a whole lot of critical data until I get further along in the program.....

It does have over 400+ hours and 60,000 miles on it so far and all signs show it to be rather successful.. Considering this is the only one like it on the entire planet, and unlike Boeing or Cessna or all the other aeronautical businesses that employ 10's of thousands to develop new and cutting edge hardware, I am just a one person show and I take testing, documenting, perfecting the package really seriously.....

Is this a great country or what ?:yes::wink2:
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Yep, what. It is the GREATEST Country....

So with 2 people, full fuel, and a 'ton' of luggage, what kind of BALLPARK distances are you seeing in HIGH DA to clear 50 obstacle? We won't hold you to it, don't worry nobody reads these interweb things much anyway.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Yep, what. It is the GREATEST Country....

So with 2 people, full fuel, and a 'ton' of luggage, what kind of BALLPARK distances are you seeing in HIGH DA to clear 50 obstacle? We won't hold you to it, don't worry nobody reads these interweb things much anyway.
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Ha.... Define high DA.:dunno::wink2:..

On average, I can take another passenger, full fuel and be off the ground and clear a 50' obstacle in about 250- 300 feet..

By myself, minimum fuel and a decent wind blowing down the runway I can dazzle most 757 pilots as they have been sitting on the taxiway while I take off on the runway... In the length of the 57, I can takeoff and clear their tail. That really creates some interesting chatter on the radio..
 
N801BH said:
Ha.... Define high DA.:dunno::wink2:..

On average, I can take another passenger, full fuel and be off the ground and clear a 50' obstacle in about 250- 300 feet..

By myself, minimum fuel and a decent wind blowing down the runway I can dazzle most 757 pilots as they have been sitting on the taxiway while I take off on the runway... In the length of the 57, I can takeoff and clear their tail. That really creates some interesting chatter on the radio..
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The epitome of coolness!

High DA? Let's just go with 5,000 to 10,000 feet, that's plenty challenging and more than most will ever see in practice. You're up there most of the time, right?
 
Same here... during the winter when my plane is at Jackson Hole , it sits in the hangar at 6425 msl.....
At my private airport on my ranch outside of Pinedale Wy it is at 8000 msl sitting in the ground.. DA only goes up from there.:eek::hairraise:
 
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