Flying club ... requesting feedback regarding rates.

I really appreciate the input, thank you! I had some of the same concerns you guys brought up, so went back to google for another search and a much better club option popped up that I hadn't seen before.

They have what they call a Class A membership which can be sold back, reasonable dry rates, and the monthly charge is only $55. And it's based out of KSLC, much closer to me than the other club in the original post. Flying out of there is a non-issue for me since I did my primary training out of the same.

Sopwith Camel Flying Club

Probably the only concern I see is about availability. I sent them a message asking about that.
 
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If you're renting, drive (fly) it like you stole it.

Other than the high buy in, it's pretty much the club I'm in. I'm assuming all rates are wet because otherwise they're not even close.

Investigate that they're doing all the other things right, then make your choice. I would ask to have someone show me the scheduling system right now and see how many of the 3 planes are actually available and how far in advance - for example, if they're pretty well booked for the next month, even excusing Oshkosh, then they're not readily available.
 
Our club does not charge a buy-in fee, but you have to purchase your membership from an outgoing member. Cost me $1200 in 2000 for that. I think the going rate is closer to $2000 now. Monthly dues are $75 ($60 if you fly that month). $87/hr wet for the C-172P (/A), $97/hr wet for the C-172N (/G) and $128/hr wet for the C-182P (/G). All planes are hangered at KOLM. No minimum time to charge when you take a plane somewhere. We require the equivalent of an FAA FR every year, rather than the every other year required by the FAA (I'm sure the insurance company has something to do with that). We used to have an Arrow, but sold it a while ago as it wasn't being flown enough. Just some numbers for you to consider.
 
Ghery said:
Our club does not charge a buy-in fee, but you have to purchase your membership from an outgoing member. Cost me $1200 in 2000 for that. I think the going rate is closer to $2000 now. Monthly dues are $75 ($60 if you fly that month). $87/hr wet for the C-172P (/A), $97/hr wet for the C-172N (/G) and $128/hr wet for the C-182P (/G). All planes are hangered at KOLM. No minimum time to charge when you take a plane somewhere. We require the equivalent of an FAA FR every year, rather than the every other year required by the FAA (I'm sure the insurance company has something to do with that). We used to have an Arrow, but sold it a while ago as it wasn't being flown enough. Just some numbers for you to consider.
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Thanks for the input Ghery. Your numbers are way better than the club in my original post. But I found what I suppose is a relatively new club which I mentioned just upthread that is nearly in line with your numbers, although dry rates. Except the initial buy-in for an equity membership is $4250, but by their bylaws that is just paid back if I give up my share so I don't need to worry about being responsible to sell it off. I played phone tag today with one of the board members. Hopefully get a few things clarified tomorrow.
 
Another comparison point: our 45 member club has 3 airplanes - an '87 Bonanza F33, a '96 Saratoga and an '83 Dakota. We charge ourselves $96/hr for the Bonanza and Saratoga, and $66/hr for the Dakota, dry rate.
A member's cost included an ownership share of $3600, one-time membership fee of $55, and monthly dues at $215. Our dues are completely flyable, bankable and never expire.
A member's share is sellable, but in a managed queue of first in, first out for anyone wishing to leave the club. Right now we have nearly 30 applicants in the waiting queue to join.
 
@woodchucker, it's tough to tell if that's a good deal. Maybe. The planes have basic panels but appear to be in good shape.

It's difficult to compare prices directly between clubs. You need to take a look at the finances and how the club is operated. If the club is well-managed, the fees will be equal to the costs to run the club and maintain the planes, including reserves for engines, avionics, paint, etc.

Some questions you need to answer to determine if the club is a good value:
  • Has the club had to fund upgrades from assessments, or do the reserves take cover those items?
  • Are similar airplanes available to rent in the area, and how do the rates compare?
  • Are they hangared? Is it a full-service FBO (that's more expensive)?
  • What are the upgrade/improvement/overhaul plans, and is there money in the bank to cover them?
  • Who does the maintenance? Is it a top-flight, pricey shop, or is it on the lower end?
No offense to anyone who's comparing Springville's prices to their own, but without *much* more information, the price comparisons aren't a valid comparison tool.

In my area, cost of living is just slightly higher than the national average, but aviation costs are are much higher than average. My club buy-in was about the same as yours for 5 airplanes, hangared at Million Air. Our 172 is similar and rents for about $120/tach hr. wet. Our 182RG is $200/tach hr, and has an autopilot. We're charged about $1900/mo. for hangar space, and that includes a discount for having 5 planes. The rental rate includes generous reserves so we can do regular upgrades and overhauls, and the club hasn't assessed the members in a long time.

Our primary trainers have rental rates that are about 10% less than you can rent similar airplanes in the area. Our 172SP, Archer III, and 182RG all have GPS, ADS-B in/out, and autopilots. Similar planes simply aren't available to rent around here.
 
Ravioli said:
A) we aren't talking renters
B) you'd love it when you can save $1.50 gal by making a fuel stop on the way home.
C) Ever rented an automobile?
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But I can enjoy that $1.50 a gallon savings without a dry rate. Your club simply sets a reimbursement price the same as your home airport and the member receives or pays the difference on the fuel they buy.
 
I'm in a equity club, and we're charging $82.00 per hour wet, Tach time, for a 172 with AP, Garmin boxes, etc. In the DC metro area. Dues are $95 per month, for tie down, subscriptions, insurance, etc. Methinks $120 wet for a 172 is too high, unless you're in CA, NY, or NJ. Oh, yeah buy in was $3K.
 
Clip4 said:
But I can enjoy that $1.50 a gallon savings without a dry rate. Your club simply sets a reimbursement price the same as your home airport and the member receives or pays the difference on the fuel they buy.
Click to expand...

So if you buy 40gal at $4/gal, but the home airport is $5/gal.... simple numbers for sunday morning...

say $80/wet per hour
4 hours flying (10gph) = $320
40gal * $4 = $160
Club assumes $5/gal (40*5=$200), so the club would give you $40 back? Basically changing your wet rate to $70/hour?

But if you bought fuel at $6/gal ($240), you'd just eat the $40?

Sounds like that could work out in your favor if the fuel at the home base was higher than those around it.
 
I had one of these silly math lessons from a rental operation.

The plane was not fueled after every flight, so when it was low you could fuel at the field (you pay, they reimburse) or you go the cheapo station 20 mins away and it is direct billed to them, with their discount price. BUT, the reimbursement was at cheapo and discount rate.

So, I say to myself, that's okay, They're just keeping costs down, I don't mind making the fuel stop.

But here's the rub. I only rent from them when I'm getting dual. So I had to pay the instructor for the time it took to refuel, pay, go the head, etc. I would have spent less using the pumps at their home field.

So, that's been corrected... I only rent their CFI's, use my own plane, and fuel before or after my time block.
 
UngaWunga said:
So if you buy 40gal at $4/gal, but the home airport is $5/gal.... simple numbers for sunday morning...

say $80/wet per hour
4 hours flying (10gph) = $320
40gal * $4 = $160
Club assumes $5/gal (40*5=$200), so the club would give you $40 back? Basically changing your wet rate to $70/hour?

But if you bought fuel at $6/gal ($240), you'd just eat the $40?

Sounds like that could work out in your favor if the fuel at the home base was higher than those around it.
Click to expand...

Our club reimburses at the actual rate paid, or the club rate at KOLM, whichever is lower.
 
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