Flying Cloud Beech 18 Crash

Dave Siciliano

Dave Siciliano

Final Approach
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Dave

http://www.startribune.com/local/53059047.html?elr=KArks:DCiUBDia_nDaycUiacyKUUr
Video: Video of plane crash



Two people died in a fiery plane crash late this morning near Flying Cloud Airport, officials said. There were no survivors.
The twin-engine Beechcraft 18 took off from the airport around 11:30 a.m. and was attempting to immediately return when it went down, said Elizabeth Isham Cory of the Federal Aviation Administration.
The plane was headed to somewhere in Wisconsin and crashed at 11:38 a.m., Cory said.
Witnesses told police that the propeller aircraft had trouble taking off and saw the plane dip before it crashed in the yard of the Historic Cummins-Grill House, a city-owned brick structure built in 1879 by a pioneer horticulturalist and is on the National Register of Historic Places. The unoccupied building was not damaged.


http://www.startribune.com/local/west/53048902.html
 
Sigh...Anyone talk to Lance?
 
I believe it was the "Needle Nose" Super 18 N3038C

Here is a picture I took from an AirExpo a few years ago:
 

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I've always had a soft spot for that twin-tailed beauty. Sad news, to lose one and her passengers.
 
Beech 18s are such cool aircraft. It's first airplane I flew. I was a lineman at KFAM in 1979...or 80 and I went on an emergency freight hauling charter trip to South Carolina and back with the boss to keep him awake. We flew to STL late in the day and picked up some parts for a factory that was broke down in South Carolina. WE then headed out to SC. He let me fly for awhile on the way to SC and explained the instruments to me. This was my first time flying right seat in an airplane.

We took off at about 1:30 am to return home from South Carolina, he climbed to cruise altitude, set it up and trimmed it out. Then he handed it over to me, told me to fly a heading of XXX, and to wake him up when I saw Kentucky Lake.

He then crawled in back and went to sleep.

I was scared sh**less but I did as I was told and flew to Kentucky Lake and then woke him up!

Always loved that airplane.
 
jesse said:
Sigh...Anyone talk to Lance?
Click to expand...

5 EYEWITNESS NEWS has learned the plane had recently been sold to Wayne Monson, 53, of Hibbing.
Monson was the CEO of Ram Medical Inc. His family in Virginia said that he was an experienced pilot. They say this was the aircrafts maiden voyage under Monson's control. Family members say a woman was with him during the flight, but her identity remains unknown.

http://kstp.com/news/stories/s1080197.shtml
​
 
I'm based out of FCM as well. That plane has been sitting outside for years on the south side of the airport. I wonder if water or contamination got somewhere they didn't detect?
 
That plane has been sitting outside for years
****************************************

Bingo!
 
I just found out I did some work for Wayne Monson in the past. I just got off the phone with one of his coworkers.
For some reason the Hibbing thing threw me off. He has been in Osceola working lately. This would explain why he was going to move the airplane to Osceola. The company is located right on the airport.
It puts it a little closer to home when I have accualy meet and talked to the guy a few times.
 
Dr. O said:
That plane has been sitting outside for years
****************************************

Bingo!
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The VAST majority of Beech 18s have spent their entire 30-50+ year lives outside. Most all commercial planes live outside. The only time they see a hangar is for maintenance. They are designed and built for it, actually, pretty much every airplane is.
 
Henning said:
The VAST majority of Beech 18s have spent their entire 30-50+ year lives outside. Most all commercial planes live outside. The only time they see a hangar is for maintenance. They are designed and built for it, actually, pretty much every airplane is.
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Yeah, when I read Dr. O's post, I couldn't tell if he was actually saying he thinks that was the problem, or was poking fun at the jump to a conclusion.
 
Henning said:
The VAST majority of Beech 18s have spent their entire 30-50+ year lives outside. Most all commercial planes live outside. The only time they see a hangar is for maintenance. They are designed and built for it, actually, pretty much every airplane is.
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They may be "built" for it but they certainly don't hold up as well being kept outside. Constant sun, heating, cooling, rain, etc.
 
Henning said:
The VAST majority of Beech 18s have spent their entire 30-50+ year lives outside. Most all commercial planes live outside. The only time they see a hangar is for maintenance. They are designed and built for it, actually, pretty much every airplane is.
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, but the last time it was flown was 5 years ago (according to the airplane logs). I assume that if a plane sits for 5 years and doesn't fly, you're going to risk corrosion in critical areas.
 
Jack Spectre said:
Yes, I agree, but the last time it was flown was 5 years ago (according to the airplane logs). I assume that if a plane sits for 5 years and doesn't fly, you're going to risk corrosion in critical areas.
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Sounds like a "maintenance" issue more than a "sitting outside" issue. If it hadn't flown for that long, it surely should have had a maintenance inspection prior to the flight.
 
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Jack Spectre said:
Yes, I agree, but the last time it was flown was 5 years ago (according to the airplane logs). I assume that if a plane sits for 5 years and doesn't fly, you're going to risk corrosion in critical areas.
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Worse than that is hydraulic leaks, fuel contamination issues, issues with plugs and magnetos, electrical, etc.

Look at it this way, if it's sat for 5 years it needs 5 years of maintenance and annuals before being flown.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Worse than that is hydraulic leaks, fuel contamination issues, issues with plugs and magnetos, electrical, etc.

Look at it this way, if it's sat for 5 years it needs 5 years of maintenance and annuals before being flown.
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And maybe it did? I haven't seen anything that says the guy just fired it up after 5 years sitting there and flew it away.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
And maybe it did? I haven't seen anything that says the guy just fired it up after 5 years sitting there and flew it away.
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I don't know, just responding to another post. Will be interesting to see what the NTSB says.

Here in Daytona about a month ago we had an Aero Commander Twin go down right after takeoff. Right after takeoff they had problems and tried to return. Seems they forgot to put fuel in it.

http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20090525X10534&key=1
 
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I've been out of town for the last week and just got back. Tonight was the first I've heard about the accident so I don't know much, but the local TV news reported that this was the first flight in 5 years, the pilot has owned the plane for about a year and was "repairing it himself", and that the flight was on a "ferry permit". I'd say that there's about a 99.9% chance that the special flight permit specified "required crew only" and I sincerely doubt that the 29 year old student pilot in the right seat was "required". My wife told me that a relative of the pilot (his son?) stated in an interview that there were expectations that the pilot's attitudes about flying safety would "'catch up with him eventually" so there might be some history there. I'll check in with the "airport network" tomorrow.
 
Rotor&Wing said:
Worse than that is hydraulic leaks, fuel contamination issues, issues with plugs and magnetos, electrical, etc.

Look at it this way, if it's sat for 5 years it needs 5 years of maintenance and annuals before being flown.
Click to expand...

Which plane would be in better condition: 5 years without maintenance stored outside, or 5 years without maintenance stored inside?
 
I just figured out that the "student pilot" killed in the crash was a member of the Powder Puff Derby (Air Race Classic) team that my mechanic's daughter put together this year(Team Right Attitude). It took a while because the young woman gave her name differently on the team's blog and afaik she was a PPL.
 
gismo said:
I just figured out that the "student pilot" killed in the crash was a member of the Powder Puff Derby (Air Race Classic) team that my mechanic's daughter put together this year(Team Right Attitude). It took a while because the young woman gave her name differently on the team's blog and afaik she was a PPL.
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Dang.:cryin: Brings it even closer to home.
 
gismo said:
I just figured out that the "student pilot" killed in the crash was a member of the Powder Puff Derby (Air Race Classic) team that my mechanic's daughter put together this year(Team Right Attitude). It took a while because the young woman gave her name differently on the team's blog and afaik she was a PPL.
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Now that I read this I remember who she was. :frown3:
 
Sandy said:
I remember as a student myself, I would fly with anyone with any kind of experience who offered a ride in any airplane that was taken care of in any fashion.
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I remember those days too. I was willing to try anything. It wasn't just any airplane, I would ride with any pilot who happened to offer one. After all I figured they weren't suicidal so what was the harm? Besides when you are student or a new pilot everyone seems better than you so it's hard to judge. I think I only started getting more cautious when I became a CFI and people came to get checked out in some of the airplanes. I wondered how some of these people had ever been allowed to become pilots in the first place. I'm not willing to make any kind of conclusion about the cause of this particular accident yet but if this discussion makes people think about being at least a little bit cautious about taking a ride with anybody in any airplane then it is worthwhile.

On another note, welcome to POA, Sandy. I was one of the volunteers in Denver. In fact I gave you a ride to the avionics shop. Your screen name "Bonanza Babe" was a clue. :)
 
Sandy,
I also extend a warm hand in greeting. Welcome to PoA!

And as for the accident, I have to wonder that Monson gave a ride to Chayka-Lev if it was on a ferry permit as Lance reports. I would expect that he's correct in thinking that it precluded non-essential personnel. If it was on a ferry permit, it would suggest that not all of the maintenance required to pass an annual inspection had been completed, does it not?
http://www.fallsradio.com/News.html said:
Investigators say the Beechcraft 18 had a special flight permit known as a “ferry permit” which means it could only fly under very tight restrictions. Maintenance records on the plane are being looked over and more details on the crash are expected later this week but the official cause into the plane crash could take months and officially the NTSB has not stated who was actually flying the plane when it crashed, only that Monson was teaching the 29-year-old flying student when the crashed occurred.
Click to expand...
 
Sandy said:
Thank you kindly, gprellwitz -
Your're exactly right...and that's my point here. The airplane apparently sat on the ground for quite a while before it's first flight with this pilot. It apparently hadn't passed an annual and had a ferry permit issued, which you stipulated some of the requirements thereof. Chayka-Lev was not a required "crewmember", nor even a licensed pilot. In fact, with only 50 hours, she probably didn't know what the rules said or even had enough knowledge to ask. All she probably knew was that a pilot offered her a ride in the right seat of a big twin with radial engines, and just trusted that this pilot wouldn't have let her come flying in it if everything wasn't ok. I doubt that he was teaching her to fly at the time of the accident, since the plane appeared to be in trouble even right after TO.
If all the above is true, and if any one of the links in this chain of events had broken, she'd probably still be alive right now.
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I've spoken with a friend who stated that he very clearly informed the pilot (Wayne) that only required crewmembers would be allowable on the proposed ferry flight to Osceola so it appears that the pilot willfully broke that rule. The reason for the ferry permit was that the plane was several years out of annual. I'm still wondering what A&P signed off on the permit or if the pilot simply ignored that requirement as well. I've also confirmed the rumor that the pilot had zero Beech 18 time and may have had fairly little twin time. It will be interesting to hear what the NTSB says about the pilot's currency, from what I've heard it's not unlikely that the pilot didn't have the required 3 takeoffs and landings to a full stop in a multengine taildragger.

My friend also told me he introduced Irene to the pilot and there was a common interest in that the pilot had voiced plans to use the airplane to fly "mercy missions" in the Ukrane which is where Irene was from.
 
Im pretty sure that special flight permits for ferry flights like that have to be arranged by an A&P through the FSDO so if he actually got a permit there should've been a mechanic involved at some point.

unfortunate to hear your report though Lance :(
 
tonycondon said:
Im pretty sure that special flight permits for ferry flights like that have to be arranged by an A&P through the FSDO so if he actually got a permit there should've been a mechanic involved at some point.

unfortunate to hear your report though Lance :(
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I've applied for special flight permits myself before and at least the MSP FSDO will issue them to a pilot/owner but they have to be signed off by an A&P who is responsible for determining that the flight can be made safely.
 
tonycondon said:
Im pretty sure that special flight permits for ferry flights like that have to be arranged by an A&P through the FSDO so if he actually got a permit there should've been a mechanic involved at some point.

unfortunate to hear your report though Lance :(
Click to expand...

A ferry permit requires a signature from an A&P and also a log book entry. Also any AD's outstanding must be complied with before flight. Ferry permits also restrict to required crew only and day VFR.
 
gismo said:
I've applied for special flight permits myself before and at least the MSP FSDO will issue them to a pilot/owner but they have to be signed off by an A&P who is responsible for determining that the flight can be made safely.
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ok, nevermind.
 
Sandy said:
In his case, he had clear pasture straight ahead, and was trying to save the airplane because there was no insurance - and the last loan payment was made the week he died.
I'm just tired of loosing people that I care about to air crashes that could have been avoided.
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Wow...I do not know him, but I can see where this would skew one's decision making process to "save the plane"! Sorry to hear about your loss. :(
 
Geez....this just sounds like a train wreck.
 
Freaky Friday on a Monday:

I just left the airport, and after a few blocks ended up behind a car with the license plate "Rivka" and a Women Fly bumper sticker. What are the odds?
 
Sandy said:
Could have been her husband or someone she knew picking her car up from the airport after her last ride.
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No, completely different airport (KMSN) in a different state (WI) in a car with Wisconsin sesquicentennial license plates.
 
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