Fly baby, fly!!

VanDy

VanDy

Cleared for Takeoff
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Sep 16, 2012
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Troy, OH
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VanDy
Lincoln Nebraska to TN/NC border, so far so good!

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That's one of the nicer ones I've ever seen. Good looking ship and looks like a fun trip
 
That's a good looking way to travel.
 
James331 said:
That's one of the nicer ones I've ever seen. Good looking ship and looks like a fun trip
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NX19GG has an interesting history. It was bought about eight years ago as a chapter project by Vintage Aircraft Association Chapter 16 in Gardner, Kansas, for $2,500. It was restored to the beautiful condition shown in the pictures above over the next five years, and won a Bronze Lindy at Oshkosh.

One of the neat things about it is the cockpit-adjustable trim. Stock single-owner Fly Babies don't need it, but when a plane is a club airplane (carrying pilots of different weights), they can be a bit handy.

VAA 16 didn't install elevator trim, they installed pitch trim. The plane has a set of small paddles in the tail, underneath the horizontal stabilizer.
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Ron Wanttaja
 
So honestly are those aviator goggles better than just getting a pair of ski goggles? Haha.

Or just cooler?
 
denverpilot said:
So honestly are those aviator goggles better than just getting a pair of ski goggles? Haha.

Or just cooler?
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Actually, those look like a set of Emgo "Red Baron" motorcycle goggles. They cost the same as the cheapest ski goggles. Better looks, same price...what not to like?

Thirty years of goggle selfies:
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Ron Wanttaja
 
Now that's what flying is all about.
 
St Louis
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Obligatory selfie
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Made it!!
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wanttaja said:
Actually, those look like a set of Emgo "Red Baron" motorcycle goggles. They cost the same as the cheapest ski goggles. Better looks, same price...what not to like?

Thirty years of goggle selfies:
goggle_selfies.jpg


Ron Wanttaja
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Cool. Did not know there was a world of cheap motorcycle goggles.
 
wanttaja said:
NX19GG has an interesting history. It was bought about eight years ago as a chapter project by Vintage Aircraft Association Chapter 16 in Gardner, Kansas, for $2,500. It was restored to the beautiful condition shown in the pictures above over the next five years, and won a Bronze Lindy at Oshkosh.

One of the neat things about it is the cockpit-adjustable trim. Stock single-owner Fly Babies don't need it, but when a plane is a club airplane (carrying pilots of different weights), they can be a bit handy.

VAA 16 didn't install elevator trim, they installed pitch trim. The plane has a set of small paddles in the tail, underneath the horizontal stabilizer.
trim_paddle2.jpg


Ron Wanttaja
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Brilliant simple solution
 
As for me and my Fly Baby, I've made about 100 landings in the last year, all wheel landings, almost all on concrete, not turf.

I set the 75 hp at 1500 RPM with airspeed at about 75 mph on final and bring it in as the speed deterates to about 65. Once over the numbers I don't look at the airspeed but instead concentrate on keeping the same glide slope. Upon touch down I give a fraction of a second to see if it bounces. It seldom does bounce, but if it does I keep the throttle at 1500 and let it come down again. If another bounce it is go around time.

Usually it settles down quite quickly and I pull throttle to idle. But I keep my hand on the throttle because somewhere around 30 mph a slight burst of power may be necessary to keep it straight especially in a cross wind.

If the runway has a VASI or PAPI, then setting up on a 3° glide slope just about guarintees a smooth wheel landing.

Another help is a plackard on the instrument panel that reads PULL BACK ON THE STICK.
 
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tinerj said:
As for me and my Fly Baby, I've made about 100 landings in the last year, all wheel landings, almost all on concrete, not turf.



I set the 75 hp at 1500 RPM with airspeed at about 75 mph on final and bring it in as the speed deterates to about 65. Once over the numbers I don't look at the airspeed but instead concentrate on keeping the same glide slope. Upon touch down I give a fraction of a second to see if it bounces. It seldom does bounce, but if it does I keep the throttle at 1500 and let it come down again. If another bounce it is go around time.



Usually it settles down quite quickly and I pull throttle to idle. But I keep my hand on the throttle because somewhere around 30 mph a slight burst of power may be necessary to keep it straight especially in a cross wind.



If the runway has a VASI or PAPI, then setting up on a 3° glide slope just about guarintees a smooth wheel landing.



Another help is a plackard on the instrument panel that reads PULL BACK ON THE STICK.
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I've heard from a few that they prefer wheel landings, which is why I asked :) I was going to idle once I had the runway made, and feeding in just a little power right before touchdown. The tailwheel touched just a little bit before the mains. Worked well on both turf and asphalt for me!


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VanDy said:
Thanks! do you prefer wheel or 3 point in flybabys?


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I have had a Decathlon, Skybolt, 2 Christen Eagles, 2 Pitts, Staudacher S-300D and a J-3 Cub. I have never done a wheel landing, they are always 3 point. Not sure why anyone likes to wheel land a taildragger?
 
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pigpenracing said:
I have had a Decathlon, Skybolt, 2 Christen Eagles, 2 Pitts, Satudacher S-300D and a J-3 Cub. I have never done a wheel landing, they are always 3 point. Not sure why anyone likes to wheel land a taildragger?
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Lack of shock absorption is one reason, in a Fly Baby...there isn't a spring-steel gear, no bungees, no oleos. It's as stiff as R. Lee Ermey's spine. Drop it in, and the only thing to soften the blow is the tires.

So... lots of folks wheel Fly Babies on, just so they can fly it on to the touchdown point.

My own landings have been evolving. I did mostly wheel landings at first, but now have graduated to a tail-low hybrid. The ground attitude for a Fly Baby is less than the stall angle of attack, so a full-stall landing will hit tailwheel first (no harm in it, and it sure as heck isn't going to bounce).

Ron Wanttaja
 
pigpenracing said:
I have had a Decathlon, Skybolt, 2 Christen Eagles, 2 Pitts, Staudacher S-300D and a J-3 Cub. I have never done a wheel landing, they are always 3 point. Not sure why anyone likes to wheel land a taildragger?
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It's another tool in the landing tool box. With all your TW time, it's kind of amazing you never learned a wheel landing. The 'why' is with a plane with forward CG, in a gusty condition it's nice to be able to control the direction better on contact.
 
docmirror said:
It's another tool in the landing tool box. With all your TW time, it's kind of amazing you never learned a wheel landing. The 'why' is with a plane with forward CG, in a gusty condition it's nice to be able to control the direction better on contact.
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I just never saw the need to wheel land. My Model 12 book says do not lift the tail on takeoff and no wheel landings. It has a big prop close to the ground. The S-2C and Eagles were the same way, I don't see anyone wheel landing these aerobatic biplanes. Maybe if I had some big balloon tires on my Cub and landed in rough fields it may be a handy tool?
 
VanDy said:
Thanks! do you prefer wheel or 3 point in flybabys?


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3 point, always. I did two landings in NX19GG and both were 3 points.

I've done hundreds of three points in N48ML. I've done *one* wheel landing.

I've flown the FlyBaby in up to 38 knot winds. I did a three point landing. I however don't recommend flying a Flybaby in those winds, it's rather nerve racking, but sometimes on cross countries you take what you can get.
 
jesse said:
3 point, always. I did two landings in NX19GG and both were 3 points.

I've done hundreds of three points in N48ML. I've done *one* wheel landing.

I've flown the FlyBaby in up to 38 knot winds. I did a three point landing. I however don't recommend flying a Flybaby in those winds, it's rather nerve racking, but sometimes on cross countries you take what you can get.
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Backing down to the runway couldn't have been fun...
 
Clark1961 said:
Backing down to the runway couldn't have been fun...
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It was basically a helicopter landing. Larger problem wasn't the landing. It was the inability to safely taxi combined with overheating brakes.

I couldn't even get out of the airplane until people came running to hold it...and we rapidly pushed it into a hangar before I got out.

In those winds you're still flying the Flybaby until the hangar door is closed.
 
pigpenracing said:
I have had a Decathlon, Skybolt, 2 Christen Eagles, 2 Pitts, Staudacher S-300D and a J-3 Cub. I have never done a wheel landing, they are always 3 point. Not sure why anyone likes to wheel land a taildragger?
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For me it depends a bit on the airplane. I've flown half of the airplanes you listed and they all three point quite nicely. Stearman too.

Others seem to do better with wheel landings for a variety of reasons. Bigger twin tailwheels (DC-3, Beech 18) are best with wheel landings. I've also found wheel landings to be smoother and preferable in 170s, T-6s and a few others.
 
Fearless Tower said:
For me it depends a bit on the airplane. I've flown half of the airplanes you listed and they all three point quite nicely. Stearman too.

Others seem to do better with wheel landings for a variety of reasons. Bigger twin tailwheels (DC-3, Beech 18) are best with wheel landings. I've also found wheel landings to be smoother and preferable in 170s, T-6s and a few others.
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I'm sure there are some airplanes that do better with wheel landings, but I sure the hell haven't flown one yet. I could however see the possibility with the big twins.

I watched probably a couple thousand Stearman landings watching my dad and grandpa cropdust in them. Not once did they ever do a wheel landing.
 
jesse said:
I'm sure there are some airplanes that do better with wheel landings, but I sure the hell haven't flown one yet. I could however see the possibility with the big twins.

I watched probably a couple thousand Stearman landings watching my dad and grandpa cropdust in them. Not once did they ever do a wheel landing.
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Like I said, I found the Stearman to three-point quite well. In fact, I had trouble trying to wheel land one.
 
I strongly favor full stall landings in tailwheel airplane.

But I remember nights flying from Tamiami to Opa Locka in my Citabria with a strong crosswind on landing, with turbulence, and then discovering my landing light had burned out - a fairly regular occurrence.

The way I dealt with that was to watch the runway lights flatten out, then ease it down, ease it down, ease it down...then when the mains touched pop the stick forward enough to keep it planted, then wrestle the tail down when able.

The danger of a full stall in a case like that is one may not be able to discern exactly where the ground is, and could end up stalling in the full stall attitude several feet in the air. Not good.

This is also roughly how I was taught to handle a landing light out in a nosewheel aircraft as well - one of the few times I'll "fly it in", or allow a student to do so.
 
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I'm a fan of 3-point as well. But, better to know it and not need then need it and not know it.

My favorite landing in the Citabria was at John Wayne Orange cty one blustery Nov when there was a serious Santa Ana. The guy in the Cessna in front of me botched his landing so bad he went around and left. There was a big tin something waiting to take off. Winds were from 340 about 25G30. I requested and was given the right runway for the added width. I flew right over top of that big tin POS sitting there waiting and wheel landed angling left to right across that huge piece of pavement' 'chirp(right tire), chirp(left tire)', and gently rolled down with plenty of left brake. As I got off the runway, the guy in the big tin said 'niiiiiice' on the comm. Made my day. A 3-point there was going to be a ground loop.

<edit; 'left' brake lol>
 
FastEddieB said:
I strongly favor full stall landings in tailwheel airplane.

But I remember nights flying from Tamiami to Opa Locka with a strong crosswind on landing, with turbulence, and then discovering my landing light had burned out - a fairly regular occurrence.

The way I dealt with that was to watch the runway lights flatten out, then ease it down, ease it down, ease it down...then when the mains touched pop the stick forward enough to keep it planted, then wrestle the tail down when able.

The danger of a full stall in a case like that is one may not be able to discern exactly where the ground is, and could end up stalling in the full stall attitude several feet in the air. Not good.

This is also roughly how I was taught to handle a landing light out in a nosewheel aircraft as well - one of the few times I'll "fly it in", or allow a student to do so.
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The CFI that did my insurance checkout in the 170 taught me a similar trick for night landing in the tailwheel. In the 170 you set 1400 RPM and essentially fly it into the ground - no flare. At that power setting, ground effect cushions you and you end up with a greaser of a landing. As soon as you feel the mains touch, you chop the power and fly the tail down. Pretty fool proof.
 
jesse said:
3 point, always. I did two landings in NX19GG and both were 3 points.



I've done hundreds of three points in N48ML. I've done *one* wheel landing.



I've flown the FlyBaby in up to 38 knot winds. I did a three point landing. I however don't recommend flying a Flybaby in those winds, it's rather nerve racking, but sometimes on cross countries you take what you can get.
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Thanks!!


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I like wheel landings because I am a lazy, lousy, pilot and when you do a wheelie you don't have to bother with paying attention to things like speed on the final. So, it's just easier.
 
I took 10 hours of tail wheel training from three instructors before my first solo flight in the single seat Fly Baby. They would not even consider wheel landings in their precious aircraft, and they insisted on grass landings, too.

As Ron said, the Fly Baby has no shock absorbers except the tires. And the landing gear is 1 inch thick laminated of four 1/4 inch spruce. Gentle landings whether wheel or three point are in order.

I've landed a couple of times in 10G16 full crosswind.

I enjoy the Fly Baby immensely and in the last year (my first year of flying it) I landed at airports in 10 states and enjoyed 115 hours in the air.
 
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