Florida, Here I Come; or Maybe NOT

[Lawreston]

OK, so I got a negotiated agreement on the Florida plane on which a pre-buy inspection turned up a ration of problems. The deal was that all problems shall be resolved under the terms of my counter offer.
"Send down the contract. I'll sign it and send it back to you and you can send me the deposit, at which time I'll order the rest of the parts and get the rest of the work done. " Further, "I will be keeping insurance on it until pick-up and also hangared, out of the Florida sunshine, until your ferry pilot picks up the airplane. The hangar is not mine, so I'm paying for the rent.You can take up to 45 days from contract to pick-up. "

I sent down the contract on which I noted the exact details of the aircraft as had been advertised; and listed each of the pre-buy discrepancies, each of the latter followed-up by a notation of which ones had already been fixed, and which ones need to be fixed.

The day the contract was received(registered mail-return receipt requested) I received an e-mail that certain items need to be discussed. So, I called him. It seems the seller won't sign the contract(my lawyer had over-read it and approved the presentation). "The rest of the corrections will be made as soon as I receive your deposit. The plane is 'Where is/As is'; your demand that the IA mark the Logs that all repairs have been completed and a/c is returned-to-service is not addressable. The plane has to picked up by June 10 or storage will be at your expense." Hmmmm; that just shortened the 45 days from contract by about 20 days. I'm beginning to think he may need to find another buyer. Thoughts???

HR

 

[Ed Guthrie]

"The rest of the corrections will be made as soon as I receive your deposit.

Escrow the deposit & the contract.

The plane is 'Where is/As is';

Is that where is/as is before or after he makes the contractual repairs?

your demand that the IA mark the Logs that all repairs have been completed and a/c is returned-to-service is not addressable.

If I am reading this correctly, the owner is not willing to be bound to finding an IA to put a return to service in the logs after having all necessary repairs completed? IOW, it appears that the owner knows there is another item(s) that must be repaired before this beast is airworthy? If that is the case--

Run, do not walk, away from the deal.

The plane has to picked up by June 10 or storage will be at your expense.

" Hmmmm; that just shortened the 45 days from contract by about 20 days. I'm beginning to think he may need to find another buyer.

I would try to understand the seller's position. That said, if what I subsequently determined matches what I think is the seller's position I'd be done and gone.

 

[Henning]

OK, so I got a negotiated agreement on the Florida plane on which a pre-buy inspection turned up a ration of problems. The deal was that all problems shall be resolved under the terms of my counter offer.
"Send down the contract. I'll sign it and send it back to you and you can send me the deposit, at which time I'll order the rest of the parts and get the rest of the work done. " Further, "I will be keeping insurance on it until pick-up and also hangared, out of the Florida sunshine, until your ferry pilot picks up the airplane. The hangar is not mine, so I'm paying for the rent.You can take up to 45 days from contract to pick-up. "

I sent down the contract on which I noted the exact details of the aircraft as had been advertised; and listed each of the pre-buy discrepancies, each of the latter followed-up by a notation of which ones had already been fixed, and which ones need to be fixed.

The day the contract was received(registered mail-return receipt requested) I received an e-mail that certain items need to be discussed. So, I called him. It seems the seller won't sign the contract(my lawyer had over-read it and approved the presentation). "The rest of the corrections will be made as soon as I receive your deposit. The plane is 'Where is/As is'; your demand that the IA mark the Logs that all repairs have been completed and a/c is returned-to-service is not addressable. The plane has to picked up by June 10 or storage will be at your expense." Hmmmm; that just shortened the 45 days from contract by about 20 days. I'm beginning to think he may need to find another buyer. Thoughts???

HR

Well, sounds like you may have an issue here with the "return to service", my guess is since it's a Florida Cessna, it has corrossion issues. Where's the plane? I'm in Ft. Lauderdale, perhaps I can help smooth the deal (or advise you to run away). I'll be in Belgium this weekend, but I'll be back Monday. Let me know if I can help.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Is this the one in Winter Haven or wherever it was that we talked about earlier?

 

[Lawreston]

Harley, where in Florida is this plane? Maybe one of us (PoA) could take a preliminary look at it for you? -- Mike in Tallahassee

Thanks, Mike. Not far from Gainesville. I've already had one kind (and neutral) pilot/owner check it over, he having noted a few "problems". It was the pre-buy I had done which turned up the list of other "discrepancies." I've become a bit concerned about the seller's attitude. On the other hand, the A&P/IA who did my pre-buy and an FAA A&P/IA Investigator from a California FSDO have both commented that with the discrepancies to be completed, "It will make someone a great little plane." And the A&P who did my pre-buy is not the A&P who's doing the repairs.

HR

 

[Lawreston]

Well, sounds like you may have an issue here with the "return to service", my guess is since it's a Florida Cessna, it has corrossion issues. Where's the plane? I'm in Ft. Lauderdale, perhaps I can help smooth the deal (or advise you to run away). I'll be in Belgium this weekend, but I'll be back Monday. Let me know if I can help.

Thanks, Henning. I don't think corrosion is any issue. The plane spent almost all of its life in hangars in the Virginia locales. I have all the FAA records of it from Day #1(October 06, 1966), thanks to one of our contributing posters who is an FAA A&P/IA/Investigator. Photos taken for me on on March 19 are below.
(1967 C-150G)
HR

 

[Henning]

Thanks, Henning. I don't think corrosion is any issue. The plane spent almost all of its life in hangars in the Virginia locales. I have all the FAA records of it from Day #1(October 06, 1966), thanks to one of our contributing posters who is an FAA A&P/IA/Investigator. Photos taken for me on on March 19 are below.
(1967 C-150G)
HR

Pictures lie, but that's irrellevant. There is an issue with getting the plane signed off as airworthy that needs to be dealt with, even if it's just figuring out why and getting a ferry permit to get home and deal with it (or walking away from the deal) let me know if I can help...

 

[Lawreston]

[/i]

Escrow the deposit & the contract.

Escrow wasn't discussed. I wanted to send binder funds via certified bank check. It was said that would take too long for the check to clear; funds must be wired.



Is that where is/as is before or after he makes the contractual repairs?

After. I made a counter offer for an amount less the pre-buy's estimated cost of correcting the discrepancies, and that I would assume the cost of the repairs, though sending him said funds for repairs to be completed. So, he gets out of it for almost his adv. price, but the bird becomes fully updated as per pre-buy discoveries.



If I am reading this correctly, the owner is not willing to be bound to finding an IA to put a return to service in the logs after having all necessary repairs completed? IOW, it appears that the owner knows there is another item(s) that must be repaired before this beast is airworthy? If that is the case--

Run, do not walk, away from the deal.

There was an annual done on the bird in Sept. '04. This seller bought it in late Novemberfor a relative who, subsequently, decided he wasn't going to fly any longer; so it went on the market. I'm thinking the previous owner bought a cheap annual, and the current owner bought on the basis of a "recent annual", and may not have known about its problems until my pre-buy inspection brought them to the surface. The IA who's doing the work is, apparently, an IA who lives/works in the airpark where the bird resides. I'm going to call him today.



I would try to understand the seller's position. That said, if what I subsequently determined matches what I think is the seller's position I'd be done and gone.

......and that's why I'm stepping carefully.

HR

 

[poadeleted3]

There are LOTS of really nice 150s out there for good prices, if all else fails.

 

[Lawreston]

Is this the one in Winter Haven or wherever it was that we talked about earlier?

Different bird, Ken; but thanks for prior correspondence.

HR

 

[Len Lanetti]

There are LOTS of really nice 150s out there for good prices, if all else fails.

Harley,

I agree with Joe. Do you really have to go all the way to Florida to find a 150. I would think there must be at least a few for sale at airports surrounding your local area.

Len

 

[Lawreston]

Harley,

I agree with Joe. Do you really have to go all the way to Florida to find a 150. I would think there must be at least a few for sale at airports surrounding your local area.

Len

Ain't it the truth, Len(and Joe)? Interestingly, there's a C-150 for sale up here.
I saw the owner at the EAA meeting a couple nights back. He's salivating about buying a 1971 C-172L Skyhawk (the one I used to own), and he's flown it since she was restored. He needs to sell his plane, however.
**********************************************************
1975 CESSNA C-150M ? $19,000 firm ? AVAILABLE IMMEDIATELY ? Low-time 1975 Cessna 150M Commuter. 3059 TT. 1376 SMOH. 182 STOH. New TKM MX300 NAVCOM digital flip-flop, built in intercom & PTT, NARCO AT150 TXP, Terra AT3000 mode C encoder, heated pitot, all logs. Extensive annual completed July 2004 ? all AD's C/W, new aileron hinges, ELT batteries.
Accessories - Slick mags, harness, starter clutch, alternator. Recently
stripped and repainted metallic two-tone silver, recent glass (except rear
window), matching wheel pants included, tow bar. Recent compression check
72/76/74/74//80. Sharp paint scheme 9/10, interior in good condition
7/10. Window post covers and center plastic cracked ? should be replaced.
Rear window cloudy - should be replaced. This is the easiest starting
aircraft I have ever flown ? warm or cold. Climbs strong, cruise fast
(for a 150!). Only 6-GPH for a 110 MPH cruise! Use 1-qt oil for every 12-15 hours. Selling to move up to 4-seats!
**********************************************************
The annual was done by the same Twitchell's who did three for me. I can buy it for $17,000 plus 1/2 the cost of a new annual, as opposed to getting a pre-buy done. Hmmmm; I can see $$$ room for added avionics.

HR

 

[Iceman]

Ain't it the truth, Len(and Joe)? Interestingly, there's a C-150 for sale up here.
I saw the owner at the EAA meeting a couple nights back. He's salivating about buying a 1971 C-172L Skyhawk (the one I used to own), and he's flown it since she was restored. He needs to sell his plane, however.
**********************************************************
1975 CESSNA C-150M ? $19,000 firm ? AVAILABLE IMMEDIATELY ? Low-time 1975 Cessna 150M Commuter. 3059 TT. 1376 SMOH. 182 STOH. New TKM MX300 NAVCOM digital flip-flop, built in intercom & PTT, NARCO AT150 TXP, Terra AT3000 mode C encoder, heated pitot, all logs. Extensive annual completed July 2004 ? all AD's C/W, new aileron hinges, ELT batteries.
Accessories - Slick mags, harness, starter clutch, alternator. Recently
stripped and repainted metallic two-tone silver, recent glass (except rear
window), matching wheel pants included, tow bar. Recent compression check
72/76/74/74//80. Sharp paint scheme 9/10, interior in good condition
7/10. Window post covers and center plastic cracked ? should be replaced.
Rear window cloudy - should be replaced. This is the easiest starting
aircraft I have ever flown ? warm or cold. Climbs strong, cruise fast
(for a 150!). Only 6-GPH for a 110 MPH cruise! Use 1-qt oil for every 12-15 hours. Selling to move up to 4-seats!
**********************************************************
The annual was done by the same Twitchell's who did three for me. I can buy it for $17,000 plus 1/2 the cost of a new annual, as opposed to getting a pre-buy done. Hmmmm; I can see $$$ room for added avionics.

HR

That sounds like a really good deal to me. Not because of the price...which is still good...but because it is close to you, sounds like it is in good condition, and because an annual is the best kind of pre-buy you can do!

 

[poadeleted3]

snip
The annual was done by the same Twitchell's who did three for me. I can buy it for $17,000 plus 1/2 the cost of a new annual, as opposed to getting a pre-buy done. Hmmmm; I can see $$$ room for added avionics.

HR

That sounds like a good deal to me. You know and trust the people involved, and while that doesn't mean you may not end up with a problem plane, it does mean that they are less likely to intentionally screw you over. BTW, unless you are dead set on a Cessna 150, a friend of mine has a beautiful Piper Colt for sale with a 135 hp O-290 engine for a decent price. Cathy and I were looking it over, and this is what I was going to buy instead of my car. Before Cathy decided we really wanted a second car more than a two seat plane. Radios really aren't all that hot, but adequate for VFR work.

http://www.malloryairport.com/aircraftforsale.html

 

[tom clark]

the guys attitude stinks. i see nothing but trouble in your future. i'd move on. tc

 

[Anthony]

the guys attitude stinks. i see nothing but trouble in your future. i'd move on. tc

I concur. It sounds like a pig in a poke.

 

[tom clark]

i just see a lot of problems with the (in so many words) "send me the deposit and i'll make the plane right" attitude. i would negotiate the price you are willing to pay "as is". you give him money, and he has you right where he wants you---firmly on the hook and then the big debate over whether the repairs were done right or not can begin. next thing you know you're paying your attorney trying to get your deposit back. it smells to high heaven. tc

 

[RogerT]

Jerry .. walk away from it. If the seller won't have the repairs signed
off in the logs and the plane returned to service then that's the end
of the discussion. Something smells funny on this one. Let it be
someone else's grief.

If it walks like a duck .. and qwacks like a duck .. well then .....


RT

 

[Lawreston]

That sounds like a really good deal to me. Not because of the price...which is still good...but because it is close to you, sounds like it is in good condition, and because an annual is the best kind of pre-buy you can do!

"Close" is a key word. Until he moved it to Wiscasset for the winter(7.2nm) it was two tie-down slots from where I used to keep my Skyhawk. And that's 5.2sm from my house. I'd considered it since last summer when he wanted 19k. He had a buyer back around Labor Day but the deal apparently fell through at the time I saw it again at our little (1948') airport. Then, after he flew my old Skyhawk which had been restored from salvage he's been salivating; and panting for a buyer of his obstacle to "moving into a 4-seater." So, for two grand less, and he'll pay 1/2 of a new annual(due in July, anyway)................
I went over to Wiscasset(Bowdoinham's gravel over turf isn't hard and dry, yet) to take another look. The tires look as new; prop is spotless(with new paint); exterior paint, scratchless; rear window ------- will do for the present; side glass, very clear. Likely, a deal!

HR

 

[Lawreston]

That sounds like a good deal to me. You know and trust the people involved, and while that doesn't mean you may not end up with a problem plane, it does mean that they are less likely to intentionally screw you over. BTW, unless you are dead set on a Cessna 150, a friend of mine has a beautiful Piper Colt for sale with a 135 hp O-290 engine for a decent price. Cathy and I were looking it over, and this is what I was going to buy instead of my car. Before Cathy decided we really wanted a second car more than a two seat plane. Radios really aren't all that hot, but adequate for VFR work.

http://www.malloryairp
ort.com/aircraftforsale.html

The joke's on me, Joe. When you referenced Piper(about which I think Cherokee, etc) I was about to write, "Thanks, but to do my photography I want to fly level with a high-wing," then I opened your Link. Duhhhhhhhhhhh!

HR

 

[Lawreston]

Jerry .. walk away from it. If the seller won't have the repairs signed
off in the logs and the plane returned to service then that's the end
of the discussion. Something smells funny on this one. Let it be
someone else's grief.

Yeah, Roger; and you've been with this thing since day one. I was putting up with attitude until that which is referenced in your 2nd sentence(above). The house of cards started to fall at that point. Gee, I hope the ferry pilot will find another excuse to fly up to Maine.

HR

 

[bbchien]

eah, Roger; and you've been with this thing since day one. I was putting up with attitude until that which is referenced in your 2nd sentence(above). The house of cards started to fall at that point. Gee, I hope the ferry pilot will find another excuse to fly up to Maine. HR

Walk away. You want an airplane, not a "chance" at airworthiness.