Flight Training Woes

[Ragnerdeuce]

Hey all, I am a student pilot with around 70 hours. I am preparing for my checkride currently and I am struggling with preparing for the oral exam. I watched videos of exams and felt fairly comfortable answering those questions, however... when I went to take a mock checkride with my instructor the questions were much more technical and obscure.

My confidence is broken about the whole deal. I've been really discouraged in my training due to it taking a full year to receive my medical and I've had to fully prepare on my own. My instructor only goes over flight maneuvers (which I am confident performing and to the proper standards). Thing is, he is an older gentleman and he is..well.. a bit gruff. He is easily frustrated and makes me scared of not knowing the answer to what he asks. He talks poorly of other students and calls people out over the radio (in flight) if they do something that annoys him (usually improper pattern procedures).

I don't want to change flight instructors so close to my checkride.. but it makes me not want to go fly due to the stress I feel when he is in the co-pilot seat.

I felt confident in my abilities before I moved to this new flight school (moved at around 50 hours to a new school and city), but now I feel much less confident in my abilities.

I guess there's nothing you guys can do for me on that front, but I guess if someone can suggest a good resource for preparing for the private pilot oral that would help. As I said before I've watched practice videos for checkrides, I've also looked at the little blue "oral exam prep" book. I've also tried reading over the ACS.

I'm in a time crunch as well, so I can't really postpone the checkride for long as I need my commercial by December as I am moving to Alaska, and training in Alaska probably isn't the best way to learn. I guess this post is more of a rant, I'm not sure. Any tips are appreciated.

Fly High and Squawk VFR.
- Stephen

Edit: Portions edited to be more to the point.

How do I test myself prior to a practice oral to see if i am ready? Are there resources out there you can recommend for practice?

Added original message back to avoid confusion with ongoing conversation.

 

[alfadog]

So both the blue book and your instructor asked questions that you don't feel you need to know the answers to. I think I see your problem.

 

[PaulS]

Ya but I think I see the op's point.

 

[Ravioli]

The title has a point. The body of the post is pointless.

 

[AggieMike88]

I see the point. Period.

What’s the difference between a cat and a comma?

A cat has claws at the ends of its paws and a comma is a pause at the end of a clause.

 

[alfadog]

Nevermind, you guys are misunderstanding the point. /thread

Perhaps. But you likely obscured whatever point you wanted to make by your self-admitted "rant" that you should not have to know the answers to questions covered in the oral exam prep guide and those asked by your CFI, whom I think I may safely assume has some idea of how to get a person through an oral exam. Perhaps a better idea of how to accomplish that than you. And if you brought that attitude into the review session with the CFI, then I do not doubt he came across as "gruff".

 

[PaulS]

Bah, the op keeps editing it.

 

[dmspilot]

Hey all, I am a student pilot with around 70 hours. I am preparing for my checkride currently and I am struggling with preparing for the oral exam. I watched videos of exams and felt fairly comfortable answering those questions, however... when I went to take a mock checkride with my instructor the questions were much more technical and obscure.

My confidence is broken about the whole deal. I've been really discouraged in my training due to it taking a full year to receive my medical and I've had to fully prepare on my own. My instructor only goes over flight maneuvers (which I am confident performing and to the proper standards). Thing is, he is an older gentleman and he is..well.. a bit gruff. He is easily frustrated and makes me scared of not knowing the answer to what he asks. He talks poorly of other students and calls people out over the radio (in flight) if they do something that annoys him (usually improper pattern procedures).

I don't want to change flight instructors so close to my checkride.. but it makes me not want to go fly due to the stress I feel when he is in the co-pilot seat.

I felt confident in my abilities before I moved to this new flight school (moved at around 50 hours to a new school and city), but now I feel much less confident in my abilities.

I guess there's nothing you guys can do for me on that front, but I guess if someone can suggest a good resource for preparing for the private pilot oral that would help. As I said before I've watched practice videos for checkrides, I've also looked at the little blue "oral exam prep" book. I've also tried reading over the ACS, but the blue book asks highly obscure questions that don't seem like something I need memorized. My instructor asks these obscure questions to me, but I thought it was a practical test and that it would be practical knowledge.

I'm in a time crunch as well, so I can't really postpone the checkride for long as I need my commercial by December as I am moving to Alaska, and training in Alaska probably isn't the best way to learn. I guess this post is more of a rant, I'm not sure. Any tips are appreciated.

Fly High and Squawk VFR.
- Stephen

You could do one lesson with a different instructor to see if the instructor's opinion of you is any different, or maybe your opinion of yourself will change.

 

[RyanB]

You’re spending a lot of time in close quarters with each other, so the instructor and student must be able to coincide with each other or else there will be added challenges.

Furthermore, you can’t just watch videos and then expect to ace the oral—they’re not a ‘one size fits all.’ If you know the material, than you’ll be fine, but don’t go expecting to pull a fast one on the DPE...hint...it won’t work.

I assume you deleted the original message and say that we’re not understanding your point (and you’re probably right) because you didn’t get the answer you wanted. Sorry, but that’s just the reality.

 

[IK04]

Thing is, he is an older gentleman... He talks poorly of other students and calls people out over the radio (in flight) if they do something that annoys him (usually improper pattern procedures).

Someday I hope to be that guy. Right now I can only gripe on a silly internet forum.

 

[Ragnerdeuce]

You’re spending a lot of time in close quarters with each other, so the instructor and student must be able to coincide with each other or else there will be added challenges.

Furthermore, you can’t just watch videos and then expect to ace the oral—they’re not a ‘one size fits all.’ If you know the material, than you’ll be fine, but don’t go expecting to pull a fast one on the DPE...hint...it won’t work.

I assume you deleted the original message and say that we’re not understanding your point (and you’re probably right) because you didn’t get the answer you wanted. Sorry, but that’s just the reality.

Not trying to pull one over. The question was more related to trying to find a way to practice for the oral. I can read the little blue book all day long, but that doesn’t help me test if I can recall every excruciating detail at a moments notice.

I watched videos to get an idea for the questions that were asked and how the exam is performed. I felt I could answer most, if not all the questions asked there, and then I get in front of my instructor and I fail my practice oral immediately because I said that an aircraft annual must be performed once a year, instead of 12 calendar months. This is the kind of thing I’m talking about. Practically, my answer is correct. Technically, my answer is still correct but not word for word the regulation.

The answers I wanted are more along the lines of if I should get a new instructor (not because of the questions, but because of the hostile feeling environment it feels like), and sources to actually test the knowledge I’m supposed to know.

I’m not looking for an easy way out, I’m not looking to trick the examiner. I have received zero ground schooling, everything I know I found and taught myself. I’m trying to make sure I am ready for how the actual test is given and not the unrealistic expectation of memorizing the entire FARAIM. In a real world situation, I can look up these regulations as needed. From what I understand I need to know all of the major regulations regarding safety, legality, and operations.

 

[dmspilot]

I said that an aircraft annual must be performed once a year... Practically, my answer is correct. Technically, my answer is still correct but not word for word the regulation.

Well water is wet and it seems like anyone could have come up with that answer without studying at all.

You must consider the purpose of asking the question, and it's not to see whether or not you know that the word "annual" means "yearly". Presumably you have already demonstrated that you're proficient at the English language. You need to know the material a little bit deeper than that.

Nevertheless, such an answer would not cause you to immediately fail the test. You can get a question completely wrong and still pass. It's the pattern you exhibit that makes the difference. You'll fail if you get too many questions wrong, or do not know enough about a particular topic, or exhibit hazardous attitudes, etc.

The answers I wanted are more along the lines of if I should get a new instructor (not because of the questions, but because of the hostile feeling environment it feels like), and sources to actually test the knowledge I’m supposed to know.

You don't need to change instructors permanently to get a second opinion, just like you don't have to get rid of your old car before you walk into a dealership to test-drive a new one.

 

[Jared V]

If you're that close to the check ride... Why switch now? Get it done.
We seem to get these post on the regular. Let's get your instructor on here to hear the other side of the story...

 

[kath]

Memorize certain things, that you'd need to know "in the airplane in the moment". Like: what to do in various emergencies. V-speeds from the POH. Airspace rules. Weather minima. Spin recovery. Stuff like that.
Know where to look up the other things, things that you'd need to know "the morning before the flight". Like: when do medicals expire. When must the ELT be changed out. Fuel reserve for a VFR flight at night. Takeoff distances from the POH. Stuff like that.
Buy little "sticky tabs" for your FAR/AIM and label/stick them all over it so you can find things quickly in there.
Take a "stage check" or "mock checkride" with another instructor, and get some independent feedback about how ready you are.
If hit with something you don't have memorized, admit it and offer to look it up, and impress your examiner by going right to the appropriate sticky-tab.
Don't watch any more YouTube videos.

 

[IK04]

Don't watch any more YouTube videos.

^^^^^

Find some local pilot types to ask questions and discuss each general subject area of the ACS.

 

[Ragnerdeuce]

Memorize certain things, that you'd need to know "in the airplane in the moment". Like: what to do in various emergencies. V-speeds from the POH. Airspace rules. Weather minima. Spin recovery. Stuff like that.
Know where to look up the other things, things that you'd need to know "the morning before the flight". Like: when do medicals expire. When must the ELT be changed out. Fuel reserve for a VFR flight at night. Takeoff distances from the POH. Stuff like that.
Buy little "sticky tabs" for your FAR/AIM and label/stick them all over it so you can find things quickly in there.
Take a "stage check" or "mock checkride" with another instructor, and get some independent feedback about how ready you are.
If hit with something you don't have memorized, admit it and offer to look it up, and impress your examiner by going right to the appropriate sticky-tab.
Don't watch any more YouTube videos.

This is the type of information I was after. Thank you.

 

[Rgbeard]

I believe I missed a great thread. The OP chose to delete it? What class.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

I believe I missed a great thread. The OP chose to delete it? What class.

Not the thread, just the original post. But it was quoted in post #9 so go read that and you haven’t missed anything.

 

[Stingray Don]

I watched videos to get an idea for the questions that were asked and how the exam is performed. I felt I could answer most, if not all the questions asked there, and then I get in front of my instructor and I fail my practice oral immediately because I said that an aircraft annual must be performed once a year, instead of 12 calendar months. This is the kind of thing I’m talking about. Practically, my answer is correct. Technically, my answer is still correct but not word for word the regulation.

Your answer in the example you provided is not practically or technically correct and would not necessarily keep you in compliance with requirements for the annual. Once a year could mean January of this year and then June of next year. The good news is that now that you understand the distinction, you will not make the same mistake on the real oral exam.

Having said that, I think it would be more realistic for the examiner to ask a follow up question to ensure understanding of the requirements rather than just failing the oral exam. I suspect that there were other more serious knowledge gaps that caused you to fail your practice oral exam. If not, then failing you based on that one mistake would be overly harsh in my non-CFI opinion.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Not trying to pull one over. The question was more related to trying to find a way to practice for the oral. I can read the little blue book all day long, but that doesn’t help me test if I can recall every excruciating detail at a moments notice.

I watched videos to get an idea for the questions that were asked and how the exam is performed. I felt I could answer most, if not all the questions asked there, and then I get in front of my instructor and I fail my practice oral immediately because I said that an aircraft annual must be performed once a year, instead of 12 calendar months. This is the kind of thing I’m talking about. Practically, my answer is correct. Technically, my answer is still correct but not word for word the regulation.

I understand your concerns, but this is a bad example. Technically, "once a year" is not correct because "calendar months" or, more precisely, "the preceding X calendar months" is a specific concept. It is also one which, if you hang out on forums long enough, gets continuously misunderstood.

As others mentioned, a DPE is likely to take your "once a year" answer, not fail you, but and a little deeper to see if you actually do understand it. Probably start with something simple like, "It is September 20, 2019. You check the airplane records and see the last annual was September 2, 2018. May we fly?" That is not minutiae. The "calendar month" occurs in a number of important currency regulations.

Where I see your concern is the personality clash with your instructor. If your take is accurate, I wouldn't like him either. Like others, I'd suggest a mock oral with another instructor with a different style. If you do know the material, or don't, it will come through. In either case, it will hopefully be without the excess baggage of the current CFI-student relationship.

 

[alfadog]

If your CFI is hostile then find another. You said "gruff". Personally, I prefer a "gruff" hard-ass over a people-pleaser when it comes to instruction. Hostile I would dump after one lesson and have done so. Dumped the people-pleasers after one lesson also. This is your friggin' life and likely the lives of your friends and family.

 

[Unit74]

OP....

I had a CFII who was a real Adam Henry who cared about nothing but building hours. Kinda the same thing..... I was never good enough. Well, he got his hours, some of it out of my checkbook and I picked up anew CFII who was much better. After our first flight, he looks at my book, does some ground and is like, “ bro, why haven’t you done a check ride yet. You are there!” I told him my story of mr “ you are not good enough” and after a convo with the chief instructor and his other students that he also abandoned, a pattern emerged.

Bottom line is this.... go fly with a different CFI and see where you are at. You may have gotten Mr. you aint good enough just like I did, but you are totally there.

As a side note, I have a lasting scar in that even on a good approach, I get mad at myself for one dot off the guidance. Like I just wasn’t good enough to do it right. Serious. Not lip service. I can’t shake it because mr perfect made me feel like a POS each time we flew.... “nope, you were 50 ft off altitude on that enroute segment. We need another day to work on your vertical management......”

 

[benyflyguy]

I understand your concerns, but this is a bad example. Technically, "once a year" is not correct because "calendar months" or, more precisely, "the preceding X calendar months" is a specific concept. It is also one which, if you hang out on forums long enough, gets continuously misunderstood.

As others mentioned, a DPE is likely to take your "once a year" answer, not fail you, but and a little deeper to see if you actually do understand it. Probably start with something simple like, "It is September 20, 2019. You check the airplane records and see the last annual was September 2, 2018. May we fly?" That is not minutiae. The "calendar month" occurs in a number of important currency regulations.
.

This is a great example of how you’ll get burned by not knowing some of these regs and differences in languages during an oral or a written for that matter. Mix this stuff up and you are going to get a lot more questions and the examiner is going to be digging deeper. Nail them quickly shows firmer understanding and the exam goes a lot smoother and there
Might not be as much digging.
Weather mins, airspace rules, instrument requirements for VFR day and night flight.
Have to just cold know that’s stuff.

 

[midlifeflyer]

This is a great example of how you’ll get burned by not knowing some of these regs and differences in languages during an oral or a written for that matter. Mix this stuff up and you are going to get a lot more questions and the examiner is going to be digging deeper. Nail them quickly shows firmer understanding and the exam goes a lot smoother and there
Might not be as much digging.
Weather mins, airspace rules, instrument requirements for VFR day and night flight.
Have to just cold know that’s stuff.

I didn't really intend this as an example of getting burned, just as a likely follow-up to the inaccurate (rather than "wrong") answer. Get the answer to the follow-up right, you have shown you understand it. In fact, you might get this scenario follow-up even if you do answer, "12 calendar months" for the same reason - to see if you understand what it means.

 

[bflynn]

For the OP

The examiner will probe the depth of your knowledge. Saying that you get an annual once a year might be ok. But most will probably push a little deeper and make sure that you understand that it is until the end of the month. I don’t have a clue what the actual wording is on that, but I know the concept and I have a big blue and red book I can look it up in if I need to.

Don’t sweat knowing everything about everything but try to know a lot.

 

[dtuuri]

...and then I get in front of my instructor and I fail my practice oral immediately because I said that an aircraft annual must be performed once a year, instead of 12 calendar months.

An instructor might ask, "How often does your plane need an annual," but an examiner is going to ask you to prove the airplane is airworthy for the flight test. As for "gruff", I've had them and been them from time to time. You want to see gruff? Join the Army. It takes all kinds and you can learn from any of them if you're willing to go with the flow. Chances are, your CFI is trying to over-prepare you for the test, so you have a little ballast to cast overboard. Or, he thinks you need higher standards for yourself to pass and be safe. Everybody should take a simulated flight test before being signed off. If your CFI doesn't agree with that, then maybe he does need to go, not for just being gruff.

 

[Cooter]

I believe the OP has left the building. But that hasn’t slowed the conversation in the slightest.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I believe the OP has left the building. But that hasn’t slowed the conversation in the slightest.

Never does.

 

[Ragnerdeuce]

An instructor might ask, "How often does your plane need an annual," but an examiner is going to ask you to prove the airplane is airworthy for the flight test. As for "gruff", I've had them and been them from time to time. You want to see gruff? Join the Army. It takes all kinds and you can learn from any of them if you're willing to go with the flow. Chances are, your CFI is trying to over-prepare you for the test, so you have a little ballast to cast overboard. Or, he thinks you need higher standards for yourself to pass and be safe. Everybody should take a simulated flight test before being signed off. If your CFI doesn't agree with that, then maybe he does need to go, not for just being gruff.

I feel this is probably the case. A thing I forgot to mention is that my flight school has a military contract with the navy to do initial training for the navy pilots. A civilian student pilot is the outlier in this case. He wants me to be over prepared for the test which I understand, but I think it’s more about not embarrassing him in front of the examiner if he signs me off, and less about caring if I achieve my goals.

 

[MuseChaser]

CFIs have a vested interested in having their students pass checkrides; it's not a question of you "embarassing him," but something much more concrete. A CFI who has students frequently fail checkrides won't remain a CFI for very long; if you fail the checkride, you BOTH fail. NO CFI worth his salt, oxygen, or any other way you measure worth is going to send a student to a checkride he feels is unprepared. Just the fact that he's going through mock orals with you is a GOOD sign... he either views you as ready, or at worst very close to being ready. The CFI I've flown with for the last 2/3 of my PPSEL and what I've done towards the IR so far is very exacting, AND I'm pretty hard on myself too, so I rarely walk away from a lesson feeling, "yeah, man, I'm awesome and did everything great," but rather, "Just when I think I'm starting to think I've got some skills, I'm shown that there's a whole WORLD of improvement for me to make" and then I get on it. I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish for the occasional lesson where my CFI just said, "Nice job today... don't change a thing," but why would I spend $75/hour to hear that? Gruff, at times, can be extremely appropriate...

OH.. and.. stop watching videos, and do more reading, writing, and talking with more experienced pilots in person. When you watch videos, you fall into a habit of fooling yourself that you know the material. When you see something and the answers you're hearing are familiar, you trick yourself into thinking you know them because they're familiar. The thing is, you can't COME UP with them, even though you think you can. Read (or listen) to questions, then WRITE down the answers, THEN check them. The act of writing will reinforce the information in your memory much more than just saying them, or even worse just nodding along.

 

[Timbeck2]

...I have received zero ground schooling, everything I know I found and taught myself. ...

Red flag. If you don't have ground school documented by an instructor, you aren't going to have a check ride. I know this because I had my ground school back when I first started flying in the Aero Club at Kadena Air Base, Okinawa. I rotated back to the states and many years later started training again. Although IACRA was all up to date and everything signed off, there was nothing documented about ground school. Back then, IACRA didn't exist. The examiner knew my instructor and told him to write up something real quick to explain the absence of ground school documentation and all was well.

Second thing - I don't know what videos you are watching but the one I watched didn't help much as the examiner just asked questions and the examinee just answered them. Most the questions now are scenario based to see if not only you know the material, but that you can apply it as well.

 

[GreatLakesFlying]

Hey all, I am a student pilot with around 70 hours. [...] My confidence is broken about the whole deal.

A little over a year ago, I was in a similar situation as you are now. I was so close to the checkride, I could taste it. And yet I felt I was getting nowhere with my CFI. I joined PoA and shared my experience, as you did. I had similar responses as you did: some thought I was a troll, some thought it was all my fault; some questioned the veracity of my story, etc. But there were quite a few members in this forum who offered solid advice and friendly encouragement. A few weeks later I passed my checkride and I am having a great time flying around Chicago.

My suggestions to you are:

1. Ignore the negativity in this or any other forum or social network. There is a lot of kindness and camaraderie in here; focus on that.
2. If your flying skills are solid, find someone to give you a mock oral checkride. Ideally, you want a CFI but a good AGI can be just as helpful.
3. Learn to deal/manage your frustration with your shortcomings during the mock oral. There is no way to answer everything 100% right. The oral is an open book exam. But there are things you must internalize -- not just memorize. For example, what's the difference between being current and being proficient? What are the VFR weather minimums? What are the Clebsch–Gordan coefficients for zero-angular momentum?
4. (Ok, maybe you don't need to worry about Clebsch–Gordan coefficients).
5. If your flying skills are solid and if you perform well in a mock oral and your current CFI still refuses to sign you off for the checkride, it's time to find another instructor, spend at least three hours in the plane with him and at least two more in ground school to demonstrate your proficiency, and you'll be off to your checkride.

#5 above is what happened with me. I moved to a different airport, different school, and found an awesome instructor who took me over the finish line after 3 hours of flying and a 3 hour mock oral.

 

[Ragnerdeuce]

A little over a year ago, I was in a similar situation as you were. I was so close to the checkride, I could taste it. And yet I felt I was getting nowhere with my CFI. I joined PoA and shared my experience, as you did. I had similar responses as you did: some thought I was a troll, some thought it was all my fault; some questioned the veracity of my story, etc. But there were quite a few members in this forum who offered solid advice and friendly encouragement. A few weeks later I passed my checkride and I am having a great time flying around Chicago.

My suggestions to you are:

1. Ignore the negativity in this or any other forum or social network. There is a lot of kindness and camaraderie in here; focus on that.
2. If your flying skills are solid, find someone to give you a mock oral checkride. Ideally, you want a CFI but a good AGI can be just as helpful.
3. Learn to deal/manage your frustration with your shortcomings during the mock oral. There is no way to answer everything 100% right. The oral is an open book exam. But there are things you must internalize -- not just memorize. For example, what's the difference between being current and being proficient? What are the VFR weather minimums? What are the Clebsch–Gordan coefficients for zero-angular momentum?
4. (Ok, maybe you don't need to worry about Clebsch–Gordan coefficients).
5. If your flying skills are solid and if you perform well in a mock oral and your current CFI still refuses to sign you off for the checkride, it's time to find another instructor, spend at least three hours in the plane with him and at least two more in ground school to demonstrate your proficiency, and you'll be off to your checkride.

#5 above is what happened with me. I moved to a different airport, different school, and found an awesome instructor who took me over the finish line after 3 hours of flying and a 3 hour mock oral.

Yeah.. I can relate. Every time I think I’ve finally learned the material, something new about it comes up and I feel like I know nothing. I deleted my original post initially because I was thought this would be a place of encouragement, and was met with.. less than encouraging responses. I’m not looking for more blowhards about the situation. I know I don’t know everything, and probably never will, no one does. I strive to learn as much as I can not only because the ACS demands it, but because when I fly, I want not only myself to be safe, but also my family members and friend who will be next to me, and my fellow pilots in the air as well. I will truck on, no matter how many times I feel my goals are only getting farther away. It will only feel that much better when I accomplish what others tell me I can’t.

 

[dtuuri]

...my flight school has a military contract... I think it’s more about not embarrassing him in front of the examiner if he signs me off, and less about caring if I achieve my goals.

You have the same goal: pass the test. He knows what it takes, how precisely questions need to be answered. If he's like I was, once he knows you know it cold because he's put you through every variation of the questions and seen you handle the plane expertly under all conditions—it won't matter, personally, if you fail the test. He knows he brought you to up standards and despite the outcome, you're still a safe pilot. It's just the artificial nature of being tested that intimidates about 15% of applicants into a sub-par performance. I had a student like that once who failed three times! For some reason, he just went to pieces on a flight test. It seemed with each failure the next test just got even worse. The fear of "failing again" was worse than simply the "fear of failure ". Don't be that guy.

 

[GreatLakesFlying]

I know I don’t know everything, and probably never will, no one does [...]

Looking over my notes from my checkride last year here's how the oral played out:

• Rules of the game: the DPE explained the process emphasizing it will be conversational/scenario-based.
• Logbook and endorsement review.
• Proficiency v. currency. 90-day example: can I fly a friend if I have not flown in the past 90 days? What about night flying with a friend? (DPE wanted to hear me saying "full-stop" for my night currency flights).
• Compliance: can a friend offer to pay me to fly him to a business meeting and back? Of course he can, I said. DPE raised eyebrow. But can I accept, no! DPE rolls eyes, even laughs thinking "one of those guys".
• How many trim surfaces has the 172 will be flying? Two I say. You sure he asks? Yes. Name them: elevator, controlled from the cockpit, and rudder, manually set before flying. DPE relaxes even more.
• Drugs, booze, and flying stuff. 8-hour throttle-to-bottle rule.
• Dreaded question about 100-hour inspection but airplane takes 3 hours more to fly to the mechanic. How many hours till next one (97).
• DPE asks me to show AD compliance in the airplane logbooks.
• DPE asks how I do weather planning.
• INOP scenario.
• Spin recovery: I go over the PARE steps, then I say we recover from the dive. He is pleased because a lot of students memorize the PARE steps but forget to say something about recovering from the dive.
• What's 7600? No radio. 7500? DPE on board. Close enough.
• Light gun signals.
• VFR cloud clearances. I reach, instinctively for the FAR/AIM book. No, he says, you know what they are, in an encouraging tone that leaves no doubt he'll issue a disapproval if I open the book. I comply.
• Medical currency -- he is looking for end of month detail.
• Charts. What is this symbol? (Antenna tower). What are the numbers associated with it. (MSL top of structure, how many feet to the ground if you hit it).
• Points to 3CK on the chart, asks me to describe the airspace from the surface to the moon. (G, E, B, E, A, E).
• He asks me to open my Chicago TAC, points to the white-highlighted number in the ground elevation legend top left of the map. What is this? (Highest ground elevation). How do you find it? (Look for the same white-highlighted number on the map). Find it. (I did).
• Name all airspace restrictions (trick question: he expects to see if I recognize TFRs as such).
• What's a TRSA? Is there one nearby? (KRFD).
• Cross-country nav log review. We talk about the trip, fuel management, W&B, frequencies, flight plan filing, alternates etc.
• What is spin? (stall+excessive yaw, I blurt. He's pleased).
• Air stuff: density altitude. Why does it take longer to takeoff at higher DAs?
• Wake turbulence avoidance.
• What is the pitot tube? What it does, how?
• Night flying, you need to make an emergency landing over farmland, it's dark and all you see is a light you believe to be outside a barn. Where do you land? (Away from the light).
• You fly into a cloud, what you do? (180, call ATC for help).
• Fuel reserves.
• Airport charts: what is this? (displaced threshold symbol). What does it mean? (land past it). He points to the BAK symbol at KMSN's 18/36. What is this? Arresting system for military a/c. He mentions that he noticed I did my solo xcountry to KMSN and wanted to check how thorough my preparation was. It was that thorough.
• Airport markings: no-movement area, hold short, ILS critical, taxiway signs.
• Accepting intersection departure clearance on a hot humid summer day. (Uh, no).
• Do you have personal minimums, how you establish them?
• We are departing runway 11 and engine quits at 400 AGL. What then? (We are landing near the 9th hole at Medina Golf Club). Engine quits at 1500 AGL, what then? Me: you mean we've busted the KORD's Bravo? Well, in for a penny, in for a pound, we land 9L or 9R at O'Hare! Or maybe turn around and glide back to our airport.
• Airplane electrical system? Why generate 28V if the battery is 24V? (charging potential).
• What is virga? (Hint: not a blue pill).
• Go over flight's briefing. Decode METARs and TAFs.
• Hazardous attitudes scenarios (you've been promising to take your friends flying, you drive to the airport, the weather is closing, they are teasing you etc etc).

And that was it. It took about 3 hours with a reasonable break in the middle.

 

[idahoflier]

A little late in here, but... First off, take a breath. Relax. I know, easy for me to say, but seriously it sounds like you are overthinking this and psyching yourself out. If you have watched the videos and read the material and understand it then you won't have any problem with the oral. If, on the other hand, you are having difficulty with the material then you need to reach out to a good instructor. It's not an instant fail if you don't know the answer to a particular question, but at least be prepared enough to know what and where to reference to get the answer. I have only had three flight checks, but I have yet to fly with a DPE looking to fail someone.

Regarding the instructor, I understand your reluctance to look elsewhere at this stage, but seriously if it's so bad you don't want to fly with the guy I can't understand why you would continue with him. For some reason students seem timid about having an open and frank conversation with a CFI that isn't working out for them. Have you discussed the issues with him? If you have and he's not willing to adapt then find someone else.

Good Luck!

 

[Clip4]

I feel this is probably the case. A thing I forgot to mention is that my flight school has a military contract with the navy to do initial training for the navy pilots. A civilian student pilot is the outlier in this case. He wants me to be over prepared for the test which I understand, but I think it’s more about not embarrassing him in front of the examiner if he signs me off, and less about caring if I achieve my goals.

Here is what the endorsement says:

I certify that [First name, MI, Last name] has received the required training in accordance with §§ 61.107 and 61.109. I have determined [he or she] is prepared for the [name of] practical test.

You may have received the required training, but the CFI cannot sign you off because in his determination you are not prepared for the test.

 

[SToL]

I'm in a time crunch as well, so I can't really postpone the checkride for long as I need my commercial by December as I am moving to Alaska, and training in Alaska probably isn't the best way to learn.

Right, because no one get's their PPL in Alaska.

There is nothing wrong with changing instructors. As a matter of fact, as an (Alaskan) instructor, I recommend that students should fly with other instructors, especially if there is serious, continued friction between you and your current instructor.

There's a lot to learn from flying with different instructors and sometimes, your instructor can tell you over and over, "do it this way", and for whatever reason you just can't hear it. Then you fly with someone else and they say, 'this is the way to do it" and all of the sudden it just clicks with you. They say the same thing, in a different way and you get it. Don't be shy about using different instructors. A good instructor will pick up right where you're at and run with it.

PJ

 

[apr911]

As a side note, I have a lasting scar in that even on a good approach, I get mad at myself for one dot off the guidance. Like I just wasn’t good enough to do it right. Serious. Not lip service.

You say this as if its a bad thing... There's nothing wrong with striving for perfection and being upset with yourself when you're less than perfect so long as you recognize less than perfection is acceptable and you dont allow your anger at yourself to negatively influence your flying. As most DPE's will say "I'm not looking for perfect" left unsaid is that you should be striving for perfect and if you are perfect it makes the DPE's job that much easier.

Red flag. If you don't have ground school documented by an instructor, you aren't going to have a check ride. I know this because I had my ground school back when I first started flying in the Aero Club at Kadena Air Base, Okinawa. I rotated back to the states and many years later started training again. Although IACRA was all up to date and everything signed off, there was nothing documented about ground school. Back then, IACRA didn't exist. The examiner knew my instructor and told him to write up something real quick to explain the absence of ground school documentation and all was well.

Second thing - I don't know what videos you are watching but the one I watched didn't help much as the examiner just asked questions and the examinee just answered them. Most the questions now are scenario based to see if not only you know the material, but that you can apply it as well.

Logged Ground School can be largely gotten around by the "home study course" endorsement but the CFI is doing themselves a disservice by not logging ground. Logging ground school and topics covered can help prevent or limit a claim of negligence and/or FAA action against the CFI when the pilot does something such as busts a Bravo and tells the FAA their CFI never taught them about Bravos.

 

[NHWannabe]

Yeah.. I can relate. Every time I think I’ve finally learned the material, something new about it comes up and I feel like I know nothing. .

I had a similar experience minus the personal conflict with my instructor. My instructor signed me off after she did a mock oral with me and she had me do a mock check ride with another CFI. My checkride was delayed twice due to weather and we did a 2 hour session prior to each checkride appointment, she thought I was well prepared and at one point asked me what I was worried about, my response was "what day is it". Some days I felt I had certain things and other days I felt like I just started flying. Get your issues resolved with your instructor and move forward. You also need to look at yourself and ask if you're overthinking some things, that's what I did. I'm not saying that will change your feelings of not knowing things it didn't for me but what I did do is convince myself that my CFI had enough confidence in me to sign me off than I should be confident in her judgement of my ability and knowledge.