Flight Review after almost 5 years....

[jsparks]

Hello all

I began my adventure into aviation in 2012 where I bought Sporty's Learn to Fly course and essentially drilled it into my head and passed my FAA written before I ever found a CFI. Once I found a CFI, we completed the flight training 40 hour requirements in about 4 months. Passed my check ride first time at roughly 42 hours and only flew approximately 22 additional hours until September 2012.

Since then, like so many others, life's priorities changed and I could no longer keep up with flying.

I got the itch to get back into the cockpit recently, reviewed as much information as I could, and sought out a new CFI to get me up to speed. (my former CFI is recovering from some medical issues that is keeping him grounded)

I have had 2 sessions with my new CFI in a 1975 C172.

My question is, given the relatively few hours I have logged, what should I expect to be my primary focus on safely returning to flight? We have knocked the ground school out with what I feel was no significant issues. We have worked on slow flight, power on/off stalls, steep turns, turns around a point various take off and landing configurations all of which, in his words, preformed to check ride standards. An area where I know I need work is cross wind landings. (Last night was ugly) I guess I really don't know what to expect as far as a Flight Review is concerned.

Is it a series of check ride standards that he must see?

Is it different for me since I haven't flown in so long?

How long should this process take?

My primary goal in getting back into flying is to be a safer pilot than I was before and become more comfortable on cross countries traveling thru Class B and C airspace as I intend to use my PPL for work travel.

One last question which is a little unclear to me is:
If I rent a plane to travel for work, is that expense something that I can legally have the company reimburse me for as I do not have a commercial certificate? it is purely for transportation to and from meetings.

John

 

[jordane93]

Read up on the FAA guide to flight reviews. Everyone is different. Some guys I signed off the flight review after one flight. Others did a few more flights before I was comfortable signing them off. I've always treated the BFR like a "checkride lite." If you're a PPL, I hold you to PPL standards. If you're a CPL, I hold you to CPL standards.

 

[mscard88]

Why don't you see if your new CFI will either endorse you for the FR beings it sounds like you've flown and have the ground training done to the CFI's satisfaction. Or, if the CFI wants to do a full blown FR ask if he'll do it?

 

[JimNtexas]

The FAA Flight Review AC is a good reference. It tells you what is required to get the sign off.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-98C.pdf

You shouldn't need a checkride. The FR isn't a checkride, you can't fail it, it's just training. When your CFI is satisfied you're ready to fly off on your own he or she will sign off your FR.

When I had a break of several years it took I think two rides to get my FR signed off, and three or four to get my Instrument Proficiency Check signed off.

 

[Mike Smith]

Why don't you see if your new CFI will either endorse you for the FR beings it sounds like you've flown and have the ground training done to the CFI's satisfaction. Or, if the CFI wants to do a full blown FR ask if he'll do it?

That's what I was thinking too....all you need is an endorsement from a CFI, you are flying with this guy now, ask him what you need to do to get his endorsement.

 

[mscard88]

That's what I was thinking too....all you need is an endorsement from a CFI, you are flying with this guy now, ask him what you need to do to get his endorsement.

 

[MIFlyer]

Hello all

I began my adventure into aviation in 2012 where I bought Sporty's Learn to Fly course and essentially drilled it into my head and passed my FAA written before I ever found a CFI. Once I found a CFI, we completed the flight training 40 hour requirements in about 4 months. Passed my check ride first time at roughly 42 hours and only flew approximately 22 additional hours until September 2012.

Since then, like so many others, life's priorities changed and I could no longer keep up with flying.

I got the itch to get back into the cockpit recently, reviewed as much information as I could, and sought out a new CFI to get me up to speed. (my former CFI is recovering from some medical issues that is keeping him grounded)

I have had 2 sessions with my new CFI in a 1975 C172.

My question is, given the relatively few hours I have logged, what should I expect to be my primary focus on safely returning to flight? We have knocked the ground school out with what I feel was no significant issues. We have worked on slow flight, power on/off stalls, steep turns, turns around a point various take off and landing configurations all of which, in his words, preformed to check ride standards. An area where I know I need work is cross wind landings. (Last night was ugly) I guess I really don't know what to expect as far as a Flight Review is concerned.

Is it a series of check ride standards that he must see?

Is it different for me since I haven't flown in so long?

How long should this process take?

My primary goal in getting back into flying is to be a safer pilot than I was before and become more comfortable on cross countries traveling thru Class B and C airspace as I intend to use my PPL for work travel.

One last question which is a little unclear to me is:
If I rent a plane to travel for work, is that expense something that I can legally have the company reimburse me for as I do not have a commercial certificate? it is purely for transportation to and from meetings.

John

One thing, how do you get back to thinking like a pilot? ADM and judgement and being aware of making conscious risk management decisions in everything you do is different than how the average human goes through life. but can kill you as a pilot

 

[jsparks]

The FAA Flight Review AC is a good reference. It tells you what is required to get the sign off.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-98C.pdf

You shouldn't need a checkride. The FR isn't a checkride, you can't fail it, it's just training. When your CFI is satisfied you're ready to fly off on your own he or she will sign off your FR.

When I had a break of several years it took I think two rides to get my FR signed off, and three or four to get my Instrument Proficiency Check signed off.

Thank you for the link. Helps to clear up some of the confusion I had as to what exactly he is looking for.

Why don't you see if your new CFI will either endorse you for the FR beings it sounds like you've flown and have the ground training done to the CFI's satisfaction. Or, if the CFI wants to do a full blown FR ask if he'll do it?

I'll ask him next time. either way it should spark a conversation as to shortfalls or areas of additional training needed.

One thing, how do you get back to thinking like a pilot? ADM and judgement and being aware of making conscious risk management decisions in everything you do is different than how the average human goes through life. but can kill you as a pilot

I really don't think that I have ever carried my "out of the cockpit" mind set into an airplane. Every minute I am behind the controls I attempt to calculate 2 or 3 steps ahead. I think sometimes this has hurt me into over analyzing certain aspects of "just fly the plane" but from a risk management aspect, I attempt to (maybe) over analyze these things. This is how I run the company, engage in business conversations and most importantly communicate with my wife! A possible example of my over analyzing is a recent conversation with my CFI: Steep turns....I absolutely see the necessity of being able to safely preform a steep turn and maintain altitude. I didn't say I cant do them or will not do them if needed, but in my mind holding a 45 degree bank for a full 360 isn't a real world scenario. I know I am a low time PPL who cant hold a candle to the experience here on this board, but has anyone been forced into a steep 360 degree turn unintentionally?


I thank you all for your replies. Before finding this forum, I didn't have anywhere to talk about flying. I'm not close with any local pilots and really do not know my CFI well enough to ask these possibly trivial questions.

 

[mscard88]

and really do not know my CFI well enough to ask these possibly trivial questions.

NEVER be hesitant about asking any CFI questions. No such thing as a trivial question. Your CFI will gladly answer your questions. If not, then time to find another one. Was this CFI aware that you needed a FR? If not he/she may go ahead and endorse your logbook.

 

[jsparks]

NEVER be hesitant about asking any CFI questions. No such thing as a trivial question. Your CFI will gladly answer your questions. If not, then time to find another one. Was this CFI aware that you needed a FR? If not he/she may go ahead and endorse your logbook.

Maybe hesitant was the wrong word. Many times questions come up when I'm not with him and there so trivial I may forget next time I'm with him. As far as getting him to sign off on my FR, maybe I have been misleading in my previous communications. I do not think he is dragging this on, and even if he did sign off on me today, I would still continue training because I want to be more comfortable on the cross countries in B and C. I was just looming for general indicators as to what a FR entails.

 

[Adam Weiss]

I just went through a similar transition back in March.
I got my PPL in 2004.
Owned a plane for about 5 years, got around 250 hours, then stopped flying for about 7 years.
In March, I joined the local club and contacted a CFI to refresh.
I was REALLY nervous...it had been a long time, and I thought I'd forgotten a lot.
After about 4 hours, she signed me off, and I've put on almost 50 hours since enjoying lots of XC time.
I fully expected it to take longer, and was really shocked when she said, "pull over and let me out".
I still make mistakes here and there, but I'm learning every flight.
Now I've got about 7 hours into my IR, too...
My best advice: do whatever you need to do to be comfortable, and enjoy yourself!

 

[Mike Smith]

Thank you for the link. Helps to clear up some of the confusion I had as to what exactly he is looking for.



I'll ask him next time. either way it should spark a conversation as to shortfalls or areas of additional training needed.



I really don't think that I have ever carried my "out of the cockpit" mind set into an airplane. Every minute I am behind the controls I attempt to calculate 2 or 3 steps ahead. I think sometimes this has hurt me into over analyzing certain aspects of "just fly the plane" but from a risk management aspect, I attempt to (maybe) over analyze these things. This is how I run the company, engage in business conversations and most importantly communicate with my wife! A possible example of my over analyzing is a recent conversation with my CFI: Steep turns....I absolutely see the necessity of being able to safely preform a steep turn and maintain altitude. I didn't say I cant do them or will not do them if needed, but in my mind holding a 45 degree bank for a full 360 isn't a real world scenario. I know I am a low time PPL who cant hold a candle to the experience here on this board, but has anyone been forced into a steep 360 degree turn unintentionally?


I thank you all for your replies. Before finding this forum, I didn't have anywhere to talk about flying. I'm not close with any local pilots and really do not know my CFI well enough to ask these possibly trivial questions.

Yes! On my night cross country approaching TCL I was asked to do a right 360 for spacing. I have been asked to do 360s for spacing a few times.

ETA, after rereading, it wasn't unintentional, but I have had to do them.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Maybe hesitant was the wrong word. Many times questions come up when I'm not with him and there so trivial I may forget next time I'm with him.

I, and other CFIs I know well, regularly answer questions from students after hours by email. I have not found any to be trivial or not worth the time.

The amount of flight time required for a FR for a pilot who has not flown in a few years varies a lot. How long the layoff, how much experience before the layoff, whether and how the pilot has kept his head in the game when not flying are all factors.

By "head in the game" I mean keeping up with new trends, reading aviation magazines, participating in aviation forums, attending the odd seminar, etc. Only a part of flying is stick & rudder. There's a pretty large knowledge and thought component, and it can get rusty (and outdated) too. Ground, whether group, self-study, or whatever, is as important as flight.

Perhaps more than any other training, training for a returning pilot requires an initial discussion, assessment, and plan. It's time well spent.

 

[Bill]

If you're going to fly at night, be sure to do at least one night flight with your CFI. That's my plan when it happens, anyway.

 

[jsparks]

Yes! On my night cross country approaching TCL I was asked to do a right 360 for spacing. I have been asked to do 360s for spacing a few times.

ETA, after rereading, it wasn't unintentional, but I have had to do them.

Thank you. Just to be clear, it was a steep turn and not a standard rate turn?

I, and other CFIs I know well, regularly answer questions from students after hours by email. I have not found any to be trivial or not worth the time.

The amount of flight time required for a FR for a pilot who has not flown in a few years varies a lot. How long the layoff, how much experience before the layoff, whether and how the pilot has kept his head in the game when not flying are all factors.

By "head in the game" I mean keeping up with new trends, reading aviation magazines, participating in aviation forums, attending the odd seminar, etc. Only a part of flying is stick & rudder. There's a pretty large knowledge and thought component, and it can get rusty (and outdated) too. Ground, whether group, self-study, or whatever, is as important as flight.

Perhaps more than any other training, training for a returning pilot requires an initial discussion, assessment, and plan. It's time well spent.

While absent from flying, I have tried to keep up on latest trends with magazine subscriptions. I wish I would have done more, but I wasn't completely out.

I did have a good conversation last night with my CFI regarding what his plan of action is in regards to my FR. Up to this point it was basically "I haven't flown in 5 years and I'd like to get current" and his reply was "OK, meet me at the airport at 2 o'clock and well get started" We sat and dove right into the ground work and then went flying.
Last night I asked him how he was approaching my FR and what areas he felt I needed work on. He explained to me that he is approaching my FR as a Dr's visit not an check-ride. That he is conducting the FR every time he is with me in the the plane and that the entire FR is done over time and not during one specific flight.

If you're going to fly at night, be sure to do at least one night flight with your CFI. That's my plan when it happens, anyway.

I will defiantly be doing this.

 

[mscard88]

, but has anyone been forced into a steep 360 degree turn unintentionally? .

Missed this part earlier. Who forced you into a steep 360* turn? No one can force you to do a steep turn. As Mike Smith points out above, ATC may put you into a 360* turn but that doesn't mean you have to make it a steep turn. Most do it at 30* bank I would say. This happens routinely at towered airports and a pilot should be able to perform a 360* turn, but it doesn't have to steep, even if a controller requests a "tight turn". You're the PIC and should just use 30*. Can you make it a steep turn if you want? Sure. But no one can force you to do it.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Last night I asked him how he was approaching my FR and what areas he felt I needed work on. He explained to me that he is approaching my FR as a Dr's visit not an check-ride. That he is conducting the FR every time he is with me in the the plane and that the entire FR is done over time and not during one specific flight.

I like the approach . Remember what the FR regulation says, "minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training." It's "training," not a checkride. If one is current and proficient, one can demonstrate proficiency (evaluation is part of training); if there are weak areas, one trains to satisfactory proficiency.

 

[luvflyin]

....................I did have a good conversation last night with my CFI regarding what his plan of action is in regards to my FR. Up to this point it was basically "I haven't flown in 5 years and I'd like to get current" and his reply was "OK, meet me at the airport at 2 o'clock and well get started" We sat and dove right into the ground work and then went flying.
Last night I asked him how he was approaching my FR and what areas he felt I needed work on. He explained to me that he is approaching my FR as a Dr's visit not an check-ride. That he is conducting the FR every time he is with me in the the plane and that the entire FR is done over time and not during one specific flight..........

I didn't have a particular conservation about it with the CFI but that's a good description of how it went with me. I did it after 25 years off.

 

[jsparks]

Missed this part earlier. Who forced you into a steep 360* turn? No one can force you to do a steep turn. As Mike Smith points out above, ATC may put you into a 360* turn but that doesn't mean you have to make it a steep turn. Most do it at 30* bank I would say. This happens routinely at towered airports and a pilot should be able to perform a 360* turn, but it doesn't have to steep, even if a controller requests a "tight turn". You're the PIC and should just use 30*. Can you make it a steep turn if you want? Sure. But no one can force you to do it.

My use of the word forced wasn't intended to imply that another human requested this maneuver. My questioning the steep turns has more to do with the full 360 degree turn itself. I understand if one were flying in the mountains and needed to get out of a valley quick (and climbing is not an option) being able to do a steep 180 is critical, but, in my mind, a full 360 STEEP turn is a pointless maneuver in the real world. Again, these are just my thoughts on over analyzing things, I don't have the experience or hours to be "set in my ways" and appreciate all feedback if my logic is incorrect.

I like the approach . Remember what the FR regulation says, "minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training." It's "training," not a checkride. If one is current and proficient, one can demonstrate proficiency (evaluation is part of training); if there are weak areas, one trains to satisfactory proficiency.

 

[mscard88]

I like the approach . Remember what the FR regulation says, "minimum of 1 hour of flight training and 1 hour of ground training." It's "training," not a checkride. If one is current and proficient, one can demonstrate proficiency (evaluation is part of training); if there are weak areas, one trains to satisfactory proficiency.

I do too Mark. But, the CFI should have laid out and informed jsparks of the plan before they began, or after the first flight when the CFI had an idea of what jsparks needed to work on to become proficient.

 

[Bill]

Missed this part earlier. Who forced you into a steep 360* turn? No one can force you to do a steep turn. As Mike Smith points out above, ATC may put you into a 360* turn but that doesn't mean you have to make it a steep turn. Most do it at 30* bank I would say.

30*, or would they expect a standard rate turn?

 

[mscard88]

but, in my mind, a full 360 STEEP turn is a pointless maneuver in the real world.

It isn't a pointless maneuver but one that may be called upon occasionally. For example, the 180* you mention, another could be to avoid another plane. I understand what you're saying by pointless, but it's nice to be proficient in steep turns in the event you think you need to fly a steep turn. Even at the airline we were required to do steep turns during 6 month check rides.

 

[jsparks]

30*, or would they expect a standard rate turn?

If ATC is requesting this maneuver for spacing purposes, I would think (unless they specifically said otherwise) a standard 2 minute turn? Not saying this is the correct answer as I honestly have no idea, but this would be my assumption if I were given the request.

 

[mscard88]

30*, or would they expect a standard rate turn?

As a controller when I issued a 360 I just wanted to make room usually for spacing so it didn't matter to me what bank angle one used. Standard rate, 30* I think most fly.

Besides, I could always give ya another one if needed!

 

[jsparks]

It isn't a pointless maneuver but one that may be called upon occasionally. For example, the 180* you mention, another could be to avoid another plane. I understand what you're saying by pointless, but it's nice to be proficient in steep turns in the event you think you need to fly a steep turn. Even at the airline we were required to do steep turns during 6 month check rides.

I agree in being able to preform them and proficient in them. I guess its kind of like an engine out drill, where the CFI pulls power and has me scramble to formulate and execute preparation for off field landing. may not be a part of day in and day out flying, but when needed, you better have the instinct.

 

[bmoeller]

I just went through a similar transition back in March.
I got my PPL in 2004.
Owned a plane for about 5 years, got around 250 hours, then stopped flying for about 7 years.
In March, I joined the local club and contacted a CFI to refresh.
I was REALLY nervous...it had been a long time, and I thought I'd forgotten a lot.
After about 4 hours, she signed me off, and I've put on almost 50 hours since enjoying lots of XC time.
...........
My best advice: do whatever you need to do to be comfortable, and enjoy yourself!

Hit the nail on the head. I was 10yrs out of flying when I jumped back in last Oct. I was given a general rule of thumb that for every year out of flying, it will be about an hour of training to get signed off again. My CFI recommended I jump into the WINGS program to get knock out some ground school in preparation for flying. I did that along with tons of YouTubing and numerous podcasts. I was constantly reading, watching and listening in between flights. I was signed off after 5 hours. Ground work before and during flying made a huge difference for me and from all the training. I learned that some of the CFIs encouraged knocking out ground school before flying. It increased a students pass rate on a check ride SIGNIFICANTLY, with pass rates in the 90 percentile.

I'm still in the beginnings of parenting (4yr and 7yr old). So I have limited time, but I felt it was time to get back. I get about 2-4hrs in a month with lots of ground education in between. Safety is my biggest anxiety with a young family. Helps keep me sharp even with lower monthly times. I take early morning flights around the pattern (6am) before work and half or full day XC on a weekend. The biggest hurdle is that first step and you're on your way.

Welcome back!

 

[Bill]

As a controller when I issued a 360 I just wanted to make room usually for spacing so it didn't matter to me what bank angle one used. Standard rate, 30* I think most fly.

Besides, I could always give ya another one if needed!

One time during primary training we were about mid-field downwind when a couple of F/A-18s were ready to depart, and they asked for unrestricted climb, which was granted. My CFI quickly asked tower for a 360 so we could orbit there to watch the Navy guys go. Also granted

 

[jsparks]

.....I'm still in the beginnings of parenting (4yr and 7yr old). So I have limited time, but I felt it was time to get back. I get about 2-4hrs in a month with lots of ground education in between. Safety is my biggest anxiety with a young family. Helps keep me sharp even with lower monthly times. I take early morning flights around the pattern (6am) before work and half or full day XC on a weekend. The biggest hurdle is that first step and you're on your way.

Welcome back!

Encouraging to read as I to am in a couple of stages of parenting LOL... 2 Bio 14 and 13 and 3 adopted from China 9, 7 and 5....

How do you feel your skills maintain with only 2-4 hours a month?

 

[midlifeflyer]

My use of the word forced wasn't intended to imply that another human requested this maneuver. My questioning the steep turns has more to do with the full 360 degree turn itself. I understand if one were flying in the mountains and needed to get out of a valley quick (and climbing is not an option) being able to do a steep 180 is critical, but, in my mind, a full 360 STEEP turn is a pointless maneuver in the real world. Again, these are just my thoughts on over analyzing things, I don't have the experience or hours to be "set in my ways" and appreciate all feedback if my logic is incorrect.

I don't see overanalyzing in that comment. Quite the opposite. I think "It's not used in the real world so why do it" is an oversimplification. The 360° steep turn is a performance maneuver required by the PTS/ACS. It is a demonstration of aircraft control - basic stick and rudder and division of attention - in a high wing loading situation in which a number of things need to be accounted for, higher stall speed than white arc, maintenance of altitude, overall situational awareness, among them. It's not intended to be a "normal" flight maneuver with a practical application, except perhaps to the extent that, if you can do it 360, you can do it 180 and as a part of recover from an unusual attitude. That's true of many performance maneuvers. Stalls are done to learn how to recognize the conditions taking place before the happen and to avoid them, not to go around showing your friends how cool it is to stall an airplane.

 

[bmoeller]

Encouraging to read as I to am in a couple of stages of parenting LOL... 2 Bio 14 and 13 and 3 adopted from China 9, 7 and 5....

How do you feel your skills maintain with only 2-4 hours a month?

I feel good about my skills with the limited time. If I plan on taking the family on a flight I usually get a flight in by myself a few days before. Just to get comfortable. I didn't fly at all in August due to schedules, kids, vacation, etc. I went up this past Tuesday in the morning for some pattern work. I fly out of a Class D, so I get the added benefit of keeping my communications sharp. First time around, I greased the landing, even after flying though what seemed like 30 birds buzzing around. I have another flight this Sunday. Probably taking my son for a breakfast run.

2-4hrs a month is enough for me to keep active and not get dull. I make sure though I schedule a biannual "safety checkup" with my CFI. Had one a few months ago prior to taking the family on a XC. Wanted to build my confidence, so I took my CFI to breakfast on a XC flight. Covered typical planning, weather and brushed up on the aircraft's Garmin 430. I have scheduled another one for Oct./Nov. I make sure to layout a list of coverage items (weaknesses) for him to drill me on.

I'm also in a flying club. The biggest reason for joining was to keep my feet to the fire. If I was to just rent, I wouldn't trust myself to not fall back into the same situation I did 10yrs ago and let flying slip away again.

 

[jsparks]

Update: signed off after 2.8 hours...FR done. Worked o cross wind landings and nailed all 4. Still going to get more training for the cross countries I want to do, but feels nice to be current again!

 

[Adam Weiss]

Update: signed off after 2.8 hours...FR done. Worked o cross wind landings and nailed all 4. Still going to get more training for the cross countries I want to do, but feels nice to be current again!

Congratulations!
It felt great for me too!
For XC, just take a few long ones, and get flight following.
That'll get you comfortable talking on the radio again.
Then plan some Class C and taxiing at unfamiliar airports.
Those were probably the things I needed the most refreshing on.
With all the cheap GPS/ADS-B, etc, VFR Navigation nowadays is probably the easiest part of XC.

 

[mscard88]

Update: signed off after 2.8 hours...FR done. Worked o cross wind landings and nailed all 4. Still going to get more training for the cross countries I want to do, but feels nice to be current again!

There ya go! Congrats. Now go have some fun.