Flight Plan for VFR flight

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vkhosid

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So, here's a question gentlemen....

I'm still in the process of working on my PPL but am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I figured I'd ask this question before I was finished and get as much prep for this as possible.

I fly out of LVK and have only flown around that area...as far east as MOD-ish
as far south as MRY-ish, and as far north as STS-ish. Once I get the license, I'd like to take a trip down to LA to visit my brother. He's currently enrolled at UCLA and lives near campus. I've been looking at skyvector, and it seems that SMO would be the airport most convenient to fly into. Also, from looking at skyvector and reading on POA, it seems like the airspace round LAX is less than simple. Basically my questin is twofold.....

firstly, what sort of route would you plan?...please assume that there would be a stop in San Luis Obispo for some killer churros

secondly, how would I go about navigating the mess that is the airspace near LAX?

I guess thirdly, is SMO the appropriate choice? If there is a better/more convenient option, please let me know.


Thanks in advance, guys!!
 
With no instrument ticket? Go to VNY, WHP, or BUR (they are all pretty close together). If you need a rental car or access to the Metro, BUR is easiest for that. If you're getting picked up, WHP.

If money is no object, go to LAX. :)

LA airspace isn't that bad north of LAX. Get flight following just like you were trained.
 
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MAKG1 said:
With no instrument ticket? Go to VNY, WHP, or BUR (they are all pretty close together). If you need a rental car or access to the Metro, BUR is easiest for that. If you're getting picked up, WHP.

If money is no object, go to LAX. :)

LA airspace isn't that bad north of LAX. Get flight following just like you were trained.
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Was that in conjunction with the answer, or a separate question? Is doing that sort of flight not a good idea, VFR? And no......no instrument ticket. To be quite honest, I don't really have a desire/need for the IR...if this sort of flight can't be done safely VFR, then I have no problems not doing it. It was more of a "it would be cool if I can fly and say hi to my brother" sort of thing.....makes sense?
 
You're going to hate the summer in Livermore.

Santa Monica sees a lot of marine layer. I'm a bit surprised you haven't come across that yet.
 
MAKG1 said:
You're going to hate the summer in Livermore.

Santa Monica sees a lot of marine layer. I'm a bit surprised you haven't come across that yet.
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Why do you say that? Last years summer wasn't bad at all at LVK....or am I missing something?
 
Santa Monica is much closer to UCLA than Van Nuys, Burbank or Whiteman, especially when you take into account traffic on the 405 Freeway. However, Santa Monica does get a marine layer during the summer, and some days it hangs around until 2 or 3 pm. That just means that you may need to eat a late lunch at San Luis Obispo, or do some sightseeing there after lunch, until you know when the fog will lift.

Do get Flight Following when you leave San Luis Obispo. There's a lot of traffic as you come south, and ATC will point the traffic out to you, if you're on frequency.

Santa Monica is north of LAX, so you won't have to navigate LAX's Bravo, so long as you stay below 5000' when you get south of the Malibu hills -- something you'd do even if LAX weren't there at all.

From San Luis Obispo, come in to the west of the Van Nuys Class D and west of Burbank's Class C. Call the Santa Monica Tower at Malibu or even as close as the "Palisades," and the Tower will tell you to "make right traffic for Runway 21" (unless it's an unusual day the wind is blowing hard from the north or east, in which case you'll land on Runway 03 -- something I've never been instructed to do). The airport has just one runway and it gets pretty busy on certain days and at certain times. As a result, you may be told to continue downwind, or to make a left 360, and I've even heard pilots being instructed to fly through final and rejoin the "north downwind" for Runway 21. If you know those instructions may be coming, they won't be a problem for you. And if you're not sure what the controller wants, just ask. The controllers in the Tower are used to working with student pilots, so they'll treat you gently, especially if you say "unfamiliar."

There's a landing fee at Santa Monica ($5/1000 lbs) and a tie-down fee if you stay over night ($15). If I were flying down to visit someone who lives near UCLA, I'd think the fees were worth it. American Flyers runs a reasonably-priced self-service fuel pump on the south side of the field, and small plane pilots use it.

Enjoy your flight to the southland, and your stay here. When you get home, you can tell your friends that you flew into the same airport that Harrison Ford uses (though I've never actually seen him here).
 
Lon33 said:
Santa Monica is much closer to UCLA than Van Nuys, Burbank or Whiteman, especially when you take into account traffic on the 405 Freeway. However, Santa Monica does get a marine layer during the summer, and some days it hangs around until 2 or 3 pm. That just means that you may need to eat a late lunch at San Luis Obispo, or do some sightseeing there after lunch, until you know when the fog will lift.

Do get Flight Following when you leave San Luis Obispo. There's a lot of traffic as you come south, and ATC will point the traffic out to you, if you're on frequency.

Santa Monica is north of LAX, so you won't have to navigate LAX's Bravo, so long as you stay below 5000' when you get south of the Malibu hills -- something you'd do even if LAX weren't there at all.

From San Luis Obispo, come in to the west of the Van Nuys Class D and west of Burbank's Class C. Call the Santa Monica Tower at Malibu or even as close as the "Palisades," and the Tower will tell you to "make right traffic for Runway 21" (unless it's an unusual day the wind is blowing hard from the north or east, in which case you'll land on Runway 03 -- something I've never been instructed to do). The airport has just one runway and it gets pretty busy on certain days and at certain times. As a result, you may be told to continue downwind, or to make a left 360, and I've even heard pilots being instructed to fly through final and rejoin the "north downwind" for Runway 21. If you know those instructions may be coming, they won't be a problem for you. And if you're not sure what the controller wants, just ask. The controllers in the Tower are used to working with student pilots, so they'll treat you gently, especially if you say "unfamiliar."

There's a landing fee at Santa Monica ($5/1000 lbs) and a tie-down fee if you stay over night ($15). If I were flying down to visit someone who lives near UCLA, I'd think the fees were worth it. American Flyers runs a reasonably-priced self-service fuel pump on the south side of the field, and small plane pilots use it.

Enjoy your flight to the southland, and your stay here. When you get home, you can tell your friends that you flew into the same airport that Harrison Ford uses (though I've never actually seen him here).
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Is doing all this VFR (with no IR) advisable? My main concern (obviously) is getting in over my head....Unfortunately I can't make a decision like that without knowing some info regarding the local airports/traffic/airspace etc...

I will certainly get FF for the entire trip, so that isn't even a question.
 
I've gone as far north as San Luis Obispo, and back, VFR without difficulty. I don't know the area north of there, but if you do and are comfortable with it, then you're set. The issue, during the summer, will be fog along the coast. I picked a day when fog wasn't in the forecast, but that was easy for me to do, because San Luis is less than two hours away, so I went and came back in a single day. You'll want to be flexible about what day you leave home and what day you return. If you can stay with your brother an extra day or two if need be, you should be OK. Also, you can do your return trip inland -- over the Central Valley (Bakersfield/Fresno) -- if there's fog along the coast. You can even come down that way too, of course. But you'd have to check for fog or haze in the Valley too. This month, Meadows Field in Bakersfield has been MVFR for days and days, because haze has cut visibility to less than 5 NM, even when the coast is VFR. Also, if you take the inland route, check the wind forecast carefully. It can blow like heck through the Newhall Pass (just north of Van Nuys, Burbank and Whiteman), especially in the afternoon. Plan your trip with the same care you used to plan your long cross-country pre-checkride. If you can be flexible about timing, you'll be fine.
 
Lon33 said:
I've gone as far north as San Luis Obispo, and back, VFR without difficulty. I don't know the area north of there, but if you do and are comfortable with it, then you're set. The issue, during the summer, will be fog along the coast. I picked a day when fog wasn't in the forecast, but that was easy for me to do, because San Luis is less than two hours away, so I went and came back in a single day. You'll want to be flexible about what day you leave home and what day you return. If you can stay with your brother an extra day or two if need be, you should be OK. Also, you can do your return trip inland -- over the Central Valley (Bakersfield/Fresno) -- if there's fog along the coast. You can even come down that way too, of course. But you'd have to check for fog or haze in the Valley too. This month, Meadows Field in Bakersfield has been MVFR for days and days, because haze has cut visibility to less than 5 NM, even when the coast is VFR. Also, if you take the inland route, check the wind forecast carefully. It can blow like heck through the Newhall Pass (just north of Van Nuys, Burbank and Whiteman), especially in the afternoon. Plan your trip with the same care you used to plan your long cross-country pre-checkride. If you can be flexible about timing, you'll be fine.
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Ideally, I'd like to go up or down the coast. It doesn't have to be in both directions, but I'm doing this with a friend of mine for the trip, and not for the sake of getting down to LA (although lets be honest, the real reason is for a Fat Sals sandwich). Staying with my brother for a night, or two, or 7 isn't a problem. The fact that i'm renting a plane is the determining factor on time.
 
I prefer the coast too. And yes, when renting a plane, staying away longer than planned is a problem. That's why all of us begin to think about buying a plane, as soon as we have some flying under our belts. The only problem with buying is . . . $$$. And that's why I've begun to buy lottery tickets. It's not an assured method of finance. But it does allow me to dream.:)
 
I fly from Nor Cal to the LA Basin several times a month and have been right outta the gate ever since getting my PPL. LA area is complex and simple all at the same time...once you understand it. Weather issues aside, it is not all that difficult.

My first recommendation...get on FF, use it every trip and get comfortable on it. It is the people that I hear struggling on the radio down there that have the most problems. So Cal ATC can be intense but they are great and very accommodating if you have your act together on the radio.

On of the benefits of FF...all of the walls except Bravo and Restricted essentially disappear. They will help ya through the C and D airspace and get ya where you need to go and keep you outta their way when needed. Be ready for frequency changes as fast as you can dial them in! I kid you not, I have gotten frequency changes on my check in with a new controller several times!

I did and still do most of my flights VFR via Santa Barbra then direct to LA. Staying over the 101 corridor gives you lots of landing options...or rather more than going direct. I will fly the coastline if taking folks that have not been before for more of a scenic tour...but you have to be careful, you have a lot less outs should you have an emergency. Just following 101 is the safest route requiring the lowest terrain clearance altitudes.

Learn the published LAX Bravo VFR transition routes on the LAX TAC. Not that you need to navigate LAX for SMO, I can't recommend those enough for transitioning LA airspace. Makes it MUCH easier than trying to dodge the airspace.

Although I will probably get slammed for being a child of the Magenta Line, Foreflight and the Ipad is what gave me the confidence of navigating the LA airspace until I fully understood it and was comfortable with it. Being in unfamiliar territory, knowing exactly where you are in relation to all of the Bravo rings, transition routes and surrounding airspace was a huge situational awareness benefit that reduced my workload while dealing with ACT and the craziness of the airspace.

Another thing you may wanna consider that would be a huge benefit if you can not find a pilot familiar with the area and quirks is to fly down and hire a local CFI to fly the area with ya for an hour or two. May be overkill for some but I know a lot of pilots that will avoid LA due to fear and lack of understanding. Sad cuz So Cal flying for me is the most fun I have in the air.
 
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I won't slam you for being a child of the Magenta Line. I think of myself as being a "Magenta Line/Blue Sky Pilot." I fly for enjoyment, not for transportation, and my wife likes my magenta and blue frame of mind.
 
So, what i'm gathering....and seeing from looking at the TAC, I won't need to worry about the VFR routes and the like. This was one of my two biggest concerns going down there. The other issue i'm still concerned about is the weather. Assuming I go sometime around april or may, what should I typically expect?

I guess the main question, is it a feasible task? I know shawn mentioned that he does this route relatively often.....is this a trip that a lot of people do VFR? Or do the majority of the flights happen IFR?
 
IFR just makes it easier to navigate, not to mention it helps when the weather is down.

VFR is more difficult because the navigation is more intense.

IFR, all you do is twist the knobs and then do the exact same thing you've done hundreds of times before.
 
Only reason you need IFR for that trip is weather. I have done dozens of trips VFR and only had to srub one in a 24 hour window for weather before I got my IFR. There were a few trips that I knew a few days ahead of time I was not gonna even try and took Southwest.

Now that I have my IFR, I still don't fly to So Cal IFR unless I need it for weather. VFR if clear skies.

Coastal fog is gonna be the main culprit but typical pattern is marine layer pushes in during the evening and morning and burns off by lunch.
 
kgruber said:
IFR just makes it easier to navigate, not to mention it helps when the weather is down.

VFR is more difficult because the navigation is more intense.

IFR, all you do is twist the knobs and then do the exact same thing you've done hundreds of times before.
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Well, I figure that's whats going to make the trip more fun. The fact that we get to enjoy the sights.

Shawn said:
Only reason you need IFR for that trip is weather. I have done dozens of trips VFR and only had to srub one in a 24 hour window for weather before I got my IFR. There were a few trips that I knew a few days ahead of time I was not gonna even try and took Southwest.

Now that I have my IFR, I still don't fly to So Cal IFR unless I need it for weather. VFR if clear skies.

Coastal fog is gonna be the main culprit but typical pattern is marine layer pushes in during the evening and morning and burns off by lunch.
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The weather is my main concern, then....specifically finding a suitable place to divert to in case proceeding forward isn't a viable option. Looking at the map, it seems like there should be plenty of alternates, yes?
 
Lots of diversion options with fuel available, especially down the 101 corridor assuming the whole coast line is not socked in...in which point you would not make it that far anyway. If coast is socked in, flying down I-5 via Gorman may be perfectly clear.

I had on trip where I launched and destination was still IMC but forecast to burn off. Got to So Cal and destination was still IMC. Diverted to KVNY which was VFR...landed and waited for 30 min for fog to finish burning off at destination then continued on my merry way.
 
Okay, I'm starting to feel that this trip is very doable!!
 
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Shawn said:
Two things...the terrain south of KMRY along the coast line is not all that great...second, you would bust R-2513.

Hers is my typical routing for VFR lower altitude flights and IFR night flights. Highway 101 stays relatively sea level the whole trip and lots of airports along the route:

http://skyvector.com/?ll=35.8507681....KSNS:A.K2.KKIC:A.K2.KSMX:A.K2.KSBA:A.K2.KSMO
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Thanks for the link, Shawn.

Another question comes up.....there's the "ideal" plan for the flight....

Leave KLVK and fly to San Luis Obispo. We'd like to land and drive to this mexican joint we saw the last time we were there (I think it's called Cinco De Mayo). From there, we take off again, and land at (I guess it'll be) Santa Monica.

My question is this: If we land at San Luis Obispo, where/how can we get some sort of transportation to get into town?
 
You ground transpiration options in general at GA airports are:

-Rental Car services like Hertz or Enterprise are at some GA airports
-FBO can typically also line up a rental car (overkill for a lunch run)
-Many FBO's have crew cars for free available on a first come first serve basis. Generally for the biz jet crews that are paying big bucks but have had many a FBO offer them up to me as a GA pilot...check with the local FBO to see what their options are. Sometime it is a nice new car...other are beaters with the mirrors taped on!
-Zipcar is at some airports where you can rent a car by the hour...but you need to set up an account ahead of time
-Taxi
-Some airports have cool things like Oceano who has bikes you can borrow

But the thing I use the most traveling by GA is Uber and Uber X. By far the cheapest way to get around if they service that area. Lyft and Sidecar are also similar options.
 
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I flew into KSBP several weeks ago in a Cessna 162 Skycatcher (a Light Sport Aircraft), shortly before a biz jet arrived. The folks at San Luis Jet Center treated me as well as I would have expected if I had been the biz jet pilot, even though my little plane took only 6 or 8 gallons of fuel. I don't know whether the Jet Center has a crew car. But even if not, the airport is just a few minutes by car from downtown San Luis Obispo, so even if you have to get an ordinary taxi, it shouldn't cost you much. By the way, I flew in to eat lunch at the Spirit of San Luis which is right on the airport property, adjacent to the transient parking ramp. It's another good place to each lunch in that area.
 
Lon33 said:
I flew into KSBP several weeks ago in a Cessna 162 Skycatcher (a Light Sport Aircraft), shortly before a biz jet arrived. The folks at San Luis Jet Center treated me as well as I would have expected if I had been the biz jet pilot, even though my little plane took only 6 or 8 gallons of fuel. I don't know whether the Jet Center has a crew car. But even if not, the airport is just a few minutes by car from downtown San Luis Obispo, so even if you have to get an ordinary taxi, it shouldn't cost you much. By the way, I flew in to eat lunch at the Spirit of San Luis which is right on the airport property, adjacent to the transient parking ramp. It's another good place to each lunch in that area.
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Fly to KSBP, go to Cinco De Mayo, order the churros, and thank me later! :lol::lol:
 
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vkhosid said:
Fly to KSBP, go to Cinco De Mayo, order the churros, and thank me later! :lol::lol:
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Fly into SBP and go to Splash Cafe and order the clam chowder bowl with seafood topper...you will forget about the churros! :yesnod:
 
Shawn said:
Fly into SBP and go to Splash Cafe and order the clam chowder bowl with seafood topper...you will forget about the churros! :yesnod:
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Why are you talking like I have to make a choice between the two? :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
As others posted, flight following is the way to go. But, you can avoid the Class B approaching SMO from the northwest VFR in clear skies if you like. Just follow the coast below 5000 MSL. For example, you could join V107 and fly towards SADDE, then just follow the beach towards Santa Monica Pier. If you fly V107, you can dog-leg around the 2824' mountain peak.

There are some tall, imposing mountains. That might make you nervous about busting the floor of the class B which comes up quickly after crossing the ridge. Just slow up, drop a bunch of flaps, and come down 1000+ FPM.

When departing SMO, right turn after take-off to follow the shoreline.
 
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