Flight instructor / Ground instructor

kgruber

kgruber

Final Approach
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Is there any benefit in having a ground instructor rating if you are already a flight instructor?

My hangar renter wants to sell his Ercoupe.

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Very little unless you intend on getting a gold seal on your instructor certificate.
 
The advantage is that you can do ground instruction if you ever lose your medical. Get your AGI and IGI and you are good to go for anything.
Your CFI technically requires you to have a medical (any medical will do) to exercise your privileges, even for ground instruction.
 
DGlaeser said:
The advantage is that you can do ground instruction if you ever lose your medical. Get your AGI and IGI and you are good to go for anything.
Your CFI technically requires you to have a medical (any medical will do) to exercise your privileges, even for ground instruction.
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That is not an accurate statement. A CFI requires no medical, even in flight, unless acting as the pilot in command or as a required crewmember. Check out what 61.23 says about when a a flight instructor requires a medical certificate.
 
I’ve never seen the need for it. I’m not a good enough CFI to get the gold seal:)
 
DGlaeser said:
The advantage is that you can do ground instruction if you ever lose your medical. Get your AGI and IGI and you are good to go for anything.
Your CFI technically requires you to have a medical (any medical will do) to exercise your privileges, even for ground instruction.
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What??? Where are you getting that from???
 
The only advantage that I see is the Ground Instructor Certificates never expire while the Flight Instructor Certificates have to be renewed every 2 years. So you get to a point that you can't, or don't want to, do flight instruction you can do ground instruction without having to renew your CFI.
 
I stand corrected about the medical.
I think I was thinking about the 2 year renewal requirement for a CFI, that does not apply to the ground instruction certificate.

Used to be (45+ years ago when I got mine) that no renewal was required for ground instructor certificate, but that has changed.
Now you have to show that you have conducted ground instruction within the last year, or get an active CFI to give you an endorsement, or you can go through the FIRC process.
 
As an AGI, you can also give ground instruction to a group without logging the IDs of everyone you give instruction to.
 
Doc Holliday said:
Reference?
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61.189 specifies the record keeping requirements for flight instructors. 61.211 and following for ground instructors has no such mention for ground instructors. Of course a ground instructor is well advised to maintain records showing they meet the recency requirements of 61.217.

Others on PoA have noted before this may be the reason the King Schools endorsement for the written after taking their course is signed with their ground instructor certificate, not their CFI certificate number.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
As an AGI, you can also give ground instruction to a group without logging the IDs of everyone you give instruction to.
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PeterNSteinmetz said:
61.189 specifies the record keeping requirements for flight instructors. 61.211 and following for ground instructors has no such mention for ground instructors. Of course a ground instructor is well advised to maintain records showing they meet the recency requirements of 61.217.

Others on PoA have noted before this may be the reason the King Schools endorsement for the written after taking their course is signed with their ground instructor certificate, not their CFI certificate number.
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You're reading in a bit more than the regulations actually state.

In reality, a CFI can conduct ground training in the same manor as the AGI. There is no requirement of "logging the ID's of everyone you give instruction to". What the regulation does state "A flight instructor must sign the logbook of each person to whom that instructor has given flight training or ground training." Now, does that mean after each lesson? It could, but realistically it could be a single endorsement. See AC 61-65H.

Back to your first post, as a CFI or AGI one could give ground instruction to a group without logging the ID's of everyone.

For the holder of a CFI, the AGI holds little value with the exception of gaining a Gold Seal. The CFI can perform any function of the AGI with regards to ground training. As previously mentioned, the CFI must renew every 24 months whereas the AGI never renews, only has to show currency.

PeterNSteinmetz said:
Others on PoA have noted before this may be the reason the King Schools endorsement for the written after taking their course is signed with their ground instructor certificate, not their CFI certificate number.
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That's purely a business decision of King's Schools, it is not mandated by regulation.
 
Doc Holliday said:
That's purely a business decision of King's Schools, it is not mandated by regulation.
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I think I have misunderstood it a bit. But it does look like you have to record everyone you endorse for a knowledge test as a CFI. But no such requirement for an AGI. Isn’t that correct?

So that might provide an advantage for King Schools or an online business, but not much for the typical CFI.

In summary, it sounds like 3 possible advantages to having the AGI:

1. Can become a Gold Seal flight instructor.
2. Only have to be current each year, not renew every 2 years.
3. Do not need to record the ID and test results of each person provided with a knowledge test endorsement.
 
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If you really want to get into parsing words, does ground instruction count as flight training toward an initial rating?

Could be less TSA paperwork if you want to try walking that particular tightrope. Using the AGI number would effectively make it clear that no “flight” training was given.

If’n you’re the sort who wants to twist the tiger’s tail and see if he bites.

You first, and let us know how your TSA audit goes. :)
 
denverpilot said:
If you really want to get into parsing words, does ground instruction count as flight training toward an initial rating?

Could be less TSA paperwork if you want to try walking that particular tightrope. Using the AGI number would effectively make it clear that no “flight” training was given.

If’n you’re the sort who wants to twist the tiger’s tail and see if he bites.

You first, and let us know how your TSA audit goes. :)
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Doesn't matter since the TSA auditors make up their own rules.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
I think I have misunderstood it a bit. But it does look like you have to record everyone you endorse for a knowledge test as a CFI. But no such requirement for an AGI. Isn’t that correct?

So that might provide an advantage for King Schools or an online business, but not much for the typical CFI.

In summary, it sounds like 3 possible advantages to having the AGI:

1. Can become a Gold Seal flight instructor.
2. Only have to be current each year, not renew every 2 years.
3. Do not need to record the ID and test results of each person provided with a knowledge test endorsement.
Click to expand...

It's good practice as a Ground Instructor to keep a personal records of activity (for continued operation) 14 CFR 61.217 and also a record of any endorsements made.

Also, there are lots of Ground Instructors who are not Flight Instructors, so the rating does have a purpose.
 
Doc Holliday said:
It's good practice as a Ground Instructor to keep a personal records of activity (for continued operation) 14 CFR 61.217 and also a record of any endorsements made.

Also, there are lots of Ground Instructors who are not Flight Instructors, so the rating does have a purpose.
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As long as they have their recency of experience endorsement
 
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