Flight following:terrain warning

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GauzeGuy

Pre-takeoff checklist
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GauzeGuy
I flew a 182RG from KBJC to KABQ today. As usual, I utilized flight following. My route was KBJC LUFSE V389 PUB V611 FTI V60 OTO KABQ. Given the winds, I wasn't about to go into the mountains. As it was, it was a bumpy ride and I spent a lot of time at Va.

Anyway, once I got the handoff to ZAB, I received a couple of warnings. The first was "bugsmasher 123AB, are you familiar with the high terrain along your route of flight?" Of course I was, I've flown the route before more than once. At 10500 I wasn't at MEA but it is more than adequate for terrain clearance. The second came in a while later "bugsmasher 123AB Verify you have the terrain in sight."

Not having gotten these warnings before, even having flown the same route of flight, I'm curious if this is an individual controller being overly cautious, or a new requirement? I don't at all mind having an extra set of eyes looking out so I'm not complaining. I just thought it was interesting.
 
Even in bright day VMC they'll ask if you have the terrain if you are below their minimum vectoring altitude.

Read the final accident report on the twin that hit a mountain east of ABQ in the dark. So again more emphasis on terrain avoidance.
 
Yup, got the same thing when flying cross country through KABQ airspace on FF. Was landing at some small airport west of KABQ and controller asked if I was famailiar with terrian. When I ressponded "negative" he gave me a verbal decription of terrain and best route of flight to airport. In extreme VFR, it was pretty obvious but getting the heads up was nice. It actually put me on a higher alert of looking at the sectional and surrounding terrain as opposed to a casual visual approach.
 
GauzeGuy said:
I flew a 182RG from KBJC to KABQ today. As usual, I utilized flight following. My route was KBJC LUFSE V389 PUB V611 FTI V60 OTO KABQ. Given the winds, I wasn't about to go into the mountains. As it was, it was a bumpy ride and I spent a lot of time at Va.

Anyway, once I got the handoff to ZAB, I received a couple of warnings. The first was "bugsmasher 123AB, are you familiar with the high terrain along your route of flight?" Of course I was, I've flown the route before more than once. At 10500 I wasn't at MEA but it is more than adequate for terrain clearance. The second came in a while later "bugsmasher 123AB Verify you have the terrain in sight."

Not having gotten these warnings before, even having flown the same route of flight, I'm curious if this is an individual controller being overly cautious, or a new requirement? I don't at all mind having an extra set of eyes looking out so I'm not complaining. I just thought it was interesting.
Click to expand...

I've gotten that from Seattle Center when flying VFR across the Cascades with clouds in the vicinity. They wanted to make sure I could see that big rock called Mt. Rainier. I could. No problem with their asking.
 
I got a completely random "Cessna 123ABc local altimeter 29.XX" when descending down to 1,000 AGL to do turns around a point while on flight following. Pretty sure they just wanted to find an excuse to ask if I was alright.
 
If I recall correctly, the Low Altitude Safety Alert System projects the airplane's position in a certain number of seconds....if the projected position is in the rocks, the controller gets a warning which he passes on. This is the usual explanation when someone is descending a little more rapidly than the system expects.

Bob Gardner
 
On that exact same route, which I've flown many times, I get the terrain warnings from ATC if I'm lower than the highest peaks. They don't give those warnings when I'm in the flight levels. I think it's a combination of caution and intermittent radar coverage when you're down low. Also, they have no way of knowing that you're familiar with the route, unless you tell them.
 
Okay, sounds like nothing unusual. I'm surprised I haven't run into them before. Thanks for the feedback.
 
GauzeGuy said:
Not having gotten these warnings before, even having flown the same route of flight, I'm curious if this is an individual controller being overly cautious, or a new requirement? I don't at all mind having an extra set of eyes looking out so I'm not complaining. I just thought it was interesting.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's a new requirement. I've been hearing those for a long time. You may know that you are clear of terrain and can see it but the controller doesn't.
 
GauzeGuy said:
I flew a 182RG from KBJC to KABQ today. As usual, I utilized flight following. My route was KBJC LUFSE V389 PUB V611 FTI V60 OTO KABQ. Given the winds, I wasn't about to go into the mountains. As it was, it was a bumpy ride and I spent a lot of time at Va.
Click to expand...

Yup, the plains sure were bumpy yesterday morning. It was much better in the evening.
 
Shawn said:
Was landing at some small airport west of KABQ and controller asked if I was famailiar with terrian. \
Click to expand...


Small airport = KAEG??
CAF doesn't think it's so small ...
KGNT is a might smaller, but still, not small ....


Anyway, query must be for out-of-towners. They've never asked me that question
(I live at the small airport -- KAEG, maybe that has something to do with it)


:redface:
 
Have gotten terrain warning while on flight following,always appreciate it ,shows me the controller is paying attention to my flight.
 
There have been some NTSB reports that listed lack of ATC terrain warning as a contributing cause... maybe they got a memo?
 
ATC watches out for us(most of the time) in the TS season too..."Do you have onboard wx?" "There is a level 5 TS at your 12 o'clock and 30 miles, say intentions" We'll be deviating east out over the ocean. I always remember Scott Crossfield's last flight with ATL center. I think his last transmission to ATC was that he was doing a 180. He did not ask about wx and ATC did not tell him.
 
"....are you familiar with the high terrain along your route of flight"

I get asked that every time I fly from FFZ to SOW
 
I've was given a high terrain warning once during the 20 years I flew in the Colorado mountains. I was approaching Laramie from the west and was low, intending to skirt the north side of some appreciable hills. ATC came on to ask me to confirm whether I had the terrain in sight.

Sad to learn, one of the probably reasons that day was a friend's crash within the previous hour. :(
 
GauzeGuy said:
Anyway, once I got the handoff to ZAB, I received a couple of warnings. The first was "bugsmasher 123AB, are you familiar with the high terrain along your route of flight?" .... The second came in a while later "bugsmasher 123AB Verify you have the terrain in sight."

Not having gotten these warnings before, even having flown the same route of flight, I'm curious if this is an individual controller being overly cautious, or a new requirement?
Click to expand...

It's not new for ABQ center. Also, there has been mountain obscuration most of last week even when a couple of miles away things are VFR and a million. They're just making sure you're aware of the terrain.

Years ago, El Paso (KELP) used to turn their tower over to ABQ center who ended up controlling the field at night. There was an accident involving a plane cleared straight out departure off of RWY 26 (they ran into MT Franklin on a dark night, not even near the peak). After that accident, El Paso controlled their own departures. I still remember the crash ... my CFI worked the ramp back then and refueled that plane prior to take off - he told me he thinks of that family often.
 
Had low clouds and high mountains one day in Northern Utah. Definitely below MEA and SLC asked me "confirm terrain in visual sight", which of course I did, and then proceeded to get more nervous about my decision to be flying in that area in that weather.
 
The controllers routinely ask these questions at various altitudes depending on your descent/climb rate, radar coverage available, highest terrain in the area and reports of downdrafts. However, each time I am asked I begin to worry that maybe they are aware of a peak that I overlooked and second guess myself.
 
One thing I learned from the superstitions crash report was that on flight following you can request msar services. For a regular vfr advisoroes target the altitude alerts can be disabled by the controller (or they are muted by default). Probably a worthwhile thing to ask for in night vfr flying.
 
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