flat spot tires

Matt C

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Matt C
I flew my new to me 172 for the first time today (- first weather break since I bought it). My A/P flew it for the pre-buy and annual. The plane flies nice everything works but the tires are lousy. They look good but do the cobblestone thing at speed over ~30. Yep I was warned about this. In all of your experiences, will they round out eventually or should I get some ordered? A/P friend says they may round out enough. I have the plane on jacks with a torpedo heater pointed at the tires :). Not really, but will warmer temps help? Thanks in advance.....
 
Flat spots are easily visible as worn spots. If you've got them then replace them (my opinion). If the worn spots aren't visible then have the wheels balanced. Tires should last many years with a little care on landing.
 
No visible flat spots or worn spots. Will check on balancing. Thanks.
 
No visible flat spots or worn spots. Will check on balancing. Thanks.

Has the plane been sitting while it was up for sale?
Tire pressures on spec (you wouldn't believe what simple things get neglected/overlooked)
Balancing probably a good place to start.
 
Has the plane been sitting while it was up for sale?
Tire pressures on spec (you wouldn't believe what simple things get neglected/overlooked)
Balancing probably a good place to start.
Yes - it did sit for a while. Pressure is good.
 
Go on to aircraft spruce and get some airhawks and change em, also toss new tubes in while you're at it, I'd put new rubber on all three, not that expensive.

If you don't know how to do it yourself, do yourself a HUGE favor and have the mechanic walk you through one wheel, and do the rest yourself, always carry a few tools and a spare tube, one day it WILL save you a lot of trouble/money.
 
You can tell al lot about an operator by the tires on his airplane. I'm just saying.....And there's nothing wrong with "Desser" Monster retreads. In fact the 3rd run carcass is actually STRONGER than OEM.
 
You can tell al lot about an operator by the tires on his airplane. I'm just saying.....And there's nothing wrong with "Desser" Monster retreads. In fact the 3rd run carcass is actually STRONGER than OEM.


How so?

Flat spots also depend on what type, flat as in it's been sitting around, or flat like someone not landing right.

Also if it's a cold weather aircraft, flat spots don't mean much, easy to apply a little brake, get good traction, hit a small ice spot then back on dry pavement and scuff of some rubber.

Guess it's like
20% insight on the operator
80% might as well be tea leaves.
 
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/april/15/whats-so-special-about-aircraft-tires



What's so special about aircraft tires?What's so special about aircraft tires?
April 15, 2013 By Jeff Simon


Did you know that aircraft tires are hand-made? Every tire is carefully constructed and inspected to ensure it meets the stringent requirements the FAA's Technical Standard Order (TSO) TSO-C62 (current).

Regardless of which brand you choose, there is no bad aircraft tire. Even the cheapest tire needs to meet the specifications that the FAA has defined. The size and type of tire specified by your aircraft’s manufacturer were the result of an extensive engineering analysis of the requirements to meet both normal and emergency operations.

Typical general aviation tire specifications include both the size and strength of the tire (example: 6.00x6, 4 ply). The first numbers in the tire spec represent the size of the tire. For example, in a 6.00x6 tire the “6.00” indicates the nominal width of the tire, while the “6” indicates the diameter of the wheel that the tire is designed to fit.

General aviation tires utilize bias-ply construction (vs. radial). Bias ply tires are constructed with plies of reinforcing materials laid at angles between 30 degrees and 60 degrees to the centerline or rotation direction of the tire, embedded in the rubber during the construction process. This provides balanced strength to the tire. The “4 ply” in the specification is used to indicate the number of layers, or plies, of reinforcing material, such as nylon, that are used in the construction of the tire. In the old days this number was literally the number of layers. However, modern technologies utilized in tire making, such as Kevlar cords, translate into the use of less actual plies to get the same "ply rating." This is better because it saves weight and creates less heat.

I’ve often been asked if it makes sense to purchase a stronger tire than that specified by the manufacturer (i.e. purchase a 6-ply tire when a 4-ply is specified). The answer is definitely no. More plies are not necessarily better. Each aircraft is designed for a specific tire, and tires with higher ply ratings than specified may not be suitable for a variety of reasons. More plies don’t make a tire last longer, and since those extra plies need to go somewhere, they wind up decreasing the interior diameter of the tire. In addition, more plies make a tire run hotter. This, along with the difference in stiffness, can affect the way a tire performs.

Choosing a tire
So, why would anyone buy a $130 tire when they can get one for $45? The answer is that the TSO represents a minimum specification. While any aircraft tire should be able to handle a difficult landing on a hot Arizona day, that landing might be the last one for an economy tire if it wears out enough tread. A premium tire may be less affected by the heat and make it through with flying colors. The value of a premium tire lies in how far the manufacturer has exceeded the TSO for the tire. This can take the form of high-tech rubber compounds that resist wear, advanced tread patterns, different ply materials, or UV protection that improves the tire’s ability to resist weather checking.

Retreads
Many aircraft owners are leery of retreaded tires. That’s a shame because any notional concern based on the term “retread” belies the facts. Don’t be misled by all of those truck tire carcasses on the highway shoulder. Retreads are an excellent value with an outstanding performance record.

The re-treading of aircraft tires has been the industry standard for commercial airlines for many years. In fact, it is standard operating procedure for the military. A retread tire is one that has a new tread section attached to a carcass or worn tire. A rebuilt tire is as safe as, or safer than, a new tire because it is built on a service-tested tire carcass, whereas a new tire has had no service use to establish its construction reliability and performance. In fact, most rebuilt tires are subjected to quality control procedures that are far more stringent than those imposed on a new tire.

An added benefit of a retread tire is that different rubber compounds can be used for the tread versus the sidewall and tire body. New construction tires are cast as one and, therefore, compromises have to be made in the rubber compounds used. In a retread situation, a harder rubber may be used for the tread than would be suitable for the sidewall.

With all this information in hand, it’s time to go tire shopping. Then get those tools ready, because the next time we meet, we’ll be replacing those tires and getting your bird back in the air!

Jeff Simon is an A&P mechanic, pilot, and aircraft owner.

*******

So, as it turns out, the dynamometer standards for the carcass excess those of then new tire manufacturers. Simon is citing a bandag study which I have seen but can't lay my hands on right now- prolly on a 2005 computer of mine.

 

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How so?

Flat spots also depend on what type, flat as in it's been sitting around, or flat like someone not landing right.

Also if it's a cold weather aircraft, flat spots don't mean much, easy to apply a little brake, get good traction, hit a small ice spot then back on dry pavement and scuff of some rubber.

Guess it's like
20% insight on the operator
80% might as well be tea leaves.
Flat from sitting. I agree with your post above, they are quite inexpensive as airplane parts go. It will be hard to throw away a nice "looking" set of tires. Thanks
 
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2013/april/15/whats-so-special-about-aircraft-tires



What's so special about aircraft tires?What's so special about aircraft tires?
April 15, 2013 By Jeff Simon


Did you know that aircraft tires are hand-made? Every tire is carefully constructed and inspected to ensure it meets the stringent requirements the FAA's Technical Standard Order (TSO) TSO-C62 (current).

Regardless of which brand you choose, there is no bad aircraft tire. Even the cheapest tire needs to meet the specifications that the FAA has defined. The size and type of tire specified by your aircraft’s manufacturer were the result of an extensive engineering analysis of the requirements to meet both normal and emergency operations.

Typical general aviation tire specifications include both the size and strength of the tire (example: 6.00x6, 4 ply). The first numbers in the tire spec represent the size of the tire. For example, in a 6.00x6 tire the “6.00” indicates the nominal width of the tire, while the “6” indicates the diameter of the wheel that the tire is designed to fit.

General aviation tires utilize bias-ply construction (vs. radial). Bias ply tires are constructed with plies of reinforcing materials laid at angles between 30 degrees and 60 degrees to the centerline or rotation direction of the tire, embedded in the rubber during the construction process. This provides balanced strength to the tire. The “4 ply” in the specification is used to indicate the number of layers, or plies, of reinforcing material, such as nylon, that are used in the construction of the tire. In the old days this number was literally the number of layers. However, modern technologies utilized in tire making, such as Kevlar cords, translate into the use of less actual plies to get the same "ply rating." This is better because it saves weight and creates less heat.

I’ve often been asked if it makes sense to purchase a stronger tire than that specified by the manufacturer (i.e. purchase a 6-ply tire when a 4-ply is specified). The answer is definitely no. More plies are not necessarily better. Each aircraft is designed for a specific tire, and tires with higher ply ratings than specified may not be suitable for a variety of reasons. More plies don’t make a tire last longer, and since those extra plies need to go somewhere, they wind up decreasing the interior diameter of the tire. In addition, more plies make a tire run hotter. This, along with the difference in stiffness, can affect the way a tire performs.

Choosing a tire
So, why would anyone buy a $130 tire when they can get one for $45? The answer is that the TSO represents a minimum specification. While any aircraft tire should be able to handle a difficult landing on a hot Arizona day, that landing might be the last one for an economy tire if it wears out enough tread. A premium tire may be less affected by the heat and make it through with flying colors. The value of a premium tire lies in how far the manufacturer has exceeded the TSO for the tire. This can take the form of high-tech rubber compounds that resist wear, advanced tread patterns, different ply materials, or UV protection that improves the tire’s ability to resist weather checking.

Retreads
Many aircraft owners are leery of retreaded tires. That’s a shame because any notional concern based on the term “retread” belies the facts. Don’t be misled by all of those truck tire carcasses on the highway shoulder. Retreads are an excellent value with an outstanding performance record.

The re-treading of aircraft tires has been the industry standard for commercial airlines for many years. In fact, it is standard operating procedure for the military. A retread tire is one that has a new tread section attached to a carcass or worn tire. A rebuilt tire is as safe as, or safer than, a new tire because it is built on a service-tested tire carcass, whereas a new tire has had no service use to establish its construction reliability and performance. In fact, most rebuilt tires are subjected to quality control procedures that are far more stringent than those imposed on a new tire.

An added benefit of a retread tire is that different rubber compounds can be used for the tread versus the sidewall and tire body. New construction tires are cast as one and, therefore, compromises have to be made in the rubber compounds used. In a retread situation, a harder rubber may be used for the tread than would be suitable for the sidewall.

With all this information in hand, it’s time to go tire shopping. Then get those tools ready, because the next time we meet, we’ll be replacing those tires and getting your bird back in the air!

Jeff Simon is an A&P mechanic, pilot, and aircraft owner.

*******

So, as it turns out, the dynamometer standards for the carcass excess those of then new tire manufacturers. Simon is citing a bandag study which I have seen but can't lay my hands on right now- prolly on a 2005 computer of mine.
Thanks for all of the great info. I will be looking into it....
 
Flat from sitting. I agree with your post above, they are quite inexpensive as airplane parts go. It will be hard to throw away a nice "looking" set of tires. Thanks

Buddy of mine bought a plane with old tires, he was going to get his PPL in the plane, so I knew he was going to burn the tires so we took it up, still had them start cracking before the pre solo wear got em.
 
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I must disagree with Bruce. I have, in the past, encountered brand new Goodyear FC II's as much as four ounces out of balance. That's beyond ridiculous for a small aircraft tire. Those got returned to the vendor. I wasn't going to put them on a customer's plane.
 
I will second monster retreads. After having brand new condors for many years and changing them almost every other year I put retreads on the main 3 years ago and after 700+ landings they are still looking good
 
I must disagree with Bruce. I have, in the past, encountered brand new Goodyear FC II's as much as four ounces out of balance. That's beyond ridiculous for a small aircraft tire. Those got returned to the vendor. I wasn't going to put them on a customer's plane.

See that frequently enough. Whatever the standards they meet, they're nowhere near the standards that car tires are meeting these days. We often find tires out of round or far out of balance or both. Even expensive tires. Cheap automobile tires are better than that.
 
See that frequently enough. Whatever the standards they meet, they're nowhere near the standards that car tires are meeting these days. We often find tires out of round or far out of balance or both. Even expensive tires. Cheap automobile tires are better than that.
Usually, But I've even gotten a set of top of the line Michelins, or Pirelli, that were way out of round. Firestones were the worst. They all had to be trued. Truing tires on the vehicle, is the only good way to increase longevity. But I still cringe when I see 8k miles of rubber being cut off of a $300 tire. But doing so increases the life of the tire by ~20k miles.
 
you might want to take a look at Desser Elite retreads as well as the Desser monster -- you can get them with GY flight custom 2 or 3 if you ask. makes for a very nice durable tire. Our 172 flight schools (and me too) use them .. wear like iron
Patrick
Tubes: also at Desser
600-6 "LEAKGUARD" BUTYL TUBE (TR-20 STANDARD)

"LEAKGUARD®" Butyl Inner Tubes Are Blended With A Proprietary Leak Resistant Compound For Less Maintenance. Aero Classic provides more aircraft tubes to the US Military than any other manufacturer. Aero Classic tubes are FULL SIZE, not stretch to fit.

TR-20 is the most common type of valve for this tube.
 
Thanks all for the input. So far it looks like Desser Monsters with the butyl "Leakguards" is the leading program all for less than $400 straight from Desser if I pick the free shipping. I guess the interior will be on hold for a bit....
 
Thanks all for the input. So far it looks like Desser Monsters with the butyl "Leakguards" is the leading program all for less than $400 straight from Desser if I pick the free shipping. I guess the interior will be on hold for a bit....

Leakguard.... I had two nose wheel (basically tailwheels) tubes break along the "welds" ended up with a tires going flat, not a blow out, but a hey that looks a little low, hour later it's flat.


giphy.gif
 
Proper inflation, if your tired of leaking tubes try a little fixaflat in it and you won't have to keep adding air to the tire. Note don't put the whole can in one tire, only a small amount will do.
 
Leakguard.... I had two nose wheel (basically tailwheels) tubes break along the "welds" ended up with a tires going flat, not a blow out, but a hey that looks a little low, hour later it's flat.


giphy.gif
I don't know where all of you come up with all of the clips and GIFS and such, but very entertaining....

I agree - my flying time is usually wedged into an otherwise challenging time frame. I don't care to spend it fixing tires.

I haven't ordered yet, has anybody had better luck with something else? Natural rubber? Different brand?
 
I'll never reveal my gif source! ;)

In all fairness, it might have just been a bad batch of tubes when both bow wheel tubes were replaced, ether way it happens and if you don't know how already, you'd do well to know how to change a tube yourself and carry a little ziplock with a spare and some powder and a couple tools, it's one of the most common ways folks get stuck somewhere.



There's also this stuff, haven't used it personally, but if ABW is pushing it...

NO-TUBES-SYR-2.jpg

http://www.airframesalaska.com/NoTubes-Syringe-p/no-tubes-syr.htm

And

NO-TUBES-2.jpg

http://www.airframesalaska.com/NoTubes-Tire-Sealant-p/no-tubes.htm
 
We use Stans on our tubeless rims for mtb riding.
 
I've always been very wary of putting stop leak type products in my tires and/or tubes because in my experience on ATV's, the product has always migrated into one spot causing an out of balance situation not to mention the scorn I've received from the guy who has to change the tire with stop leak all over the rim and a plugged up valve stem.

mini-rant follows:

I wanted a container of Tire Talc so I typed that into the search bar at Aircraft Spruce. No luck. So I typed in talcum powder, again no joy. So I googled "aircraft tire talcum powder" and got a link to Aircraft Spruce and it came right up. :mad:

As a good customer, I told them about it.
 
Go to left link and select tires and tubes, it is listed there
 
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