First right seat landings

ScottK

ScottK

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ScottK
I finally got to try it. Land from the right seat. My friend (a CFI) was left seat and it was actually his flight.

On a past flight, I had mentioned to him that I'd love to try the right seat landing sometime. Yesterday, we had 290@6 for rw 29 at a neighboring airport. Doesn't get better than that. The first thing I realized was how much muscle memory is involved when you fly the same plane all the time. We were in a 172, and from the right seat, I found myself looking for the controls that I instinctively reach for from the left seat. My biggest concern was keeping my hand on the throttle as we were landing. In my head, I was concerned that I would grab the mixture instead of the throttle on a go around and nothing would happen. Also, I found that the feel you develop over time in the left hand isn't there in the right hand. I was all over the place with the yoke.

In the end, I managed to make two landings, one ok and one really firm. I have to say that it was the most uncomfortable I've been on a landing since early training. I'm hoping to get more practice in the future. As uncomfortable as I was, it was a great feeling to pull it off and learn something new.
 
Not an airplane CFI but one thing I really like about the Army is from day one in your advanced airframe you fly from both seats.
 
It's friggin' weird the first few times, isn't it?
 
I found I got over the hand issues reasonably quickly. Sight picture was a little more challenging, and even after years of flying in both seats, I might find myself a little off centerline if I switch seats after spending a long time in one particular seat.

The trickiest thing for me transitioning to right seat at first was doing stalls. Do it enough times though and you'll get comfortable.
 
Brad Z said:
I found I got over the hand issues reasonably quickly. Sight picture was a little more challenging, and even after years of flying in both seats, I might find myself a little off centerline if I switch seats after spending a long time in one particular seat.

The trickiest thing for me transitioning to right seat at first was doing stalls. Do it enough times though and you'll get comfortable.
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Yeah, I never had an issue landing from the right side, but having flown tailwheel airplanes with a stick and throttle on the left may have helped the transition.

What I did find was a pain in the arse was instrument flying from the right seat (in a typical GA aircraft). First time I tried that I was all over the place. I was able to keep it within the PTS, but it was some of the ugliest instrument flying I've ever done.
 
My issue is I have to think to use the (overhead) trim. From the left seat my right arm is 'programmed' to know the up/down direction. From the right seat, I have to look up at the labels for up/down, and think about how my left arm has to move.
 
If your muscle memory is programmed on go-around to push the right hand (throttle) forward and pull your left hand (yoke) back, you want to think about that if you're going around from the right seat. :eek:

Muscle memory is a very strange thing. Next time you shave try starting on the opposite side of your face and see how it feels.
 
DJTorrente said:
If your muscle memory is programmed on go-around to push the right hand (throttle) forward and pull your left hand (yoke) back, you want to think about that if you're going around from the right seat. :eek:



Muscle memory is a very strange thing. Next time you shave try starting on the opposite side of your face and see how it feels.
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That may apply to some, but most of us shave our faces every single day. How many times do we perform a go around?

I can only speak for myself, but I have never found any muscle memory issues between shifting which hand the throttle(s) is in.
 
EdFred said:
My issue is I have to think to use the (overhead) trim. From the left seat my right arm is 'programmed' to know the up/down direction. From the right seat, I have to look up at the labels for up/down, and think about how my left arm has to move.
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The trim in the Debonair is hidden behind the yoke and the panel. With my right hand I can trim up and down automatically. When I use my left hand, I have to consciously think which way is which and even then get it wrong much of the time.

It is a non issue for me in the Saratoga.
 
Reedster said:
The trim in the Debonair is hidden behind the yoke and the panel. With my right hand I can trim up and down automatically. When I use my left hand, I have to consciously think which way is which and even then get it wrong much of the time.

It is a non issue for me in the Saratoga.
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Out of curiosity, why do you think there is a difference? The trim wheels in Beech and Piper turn the same way, it is just easier to reach and see it in the Piper. Are you actually looking down at the Piper trim wheel when you move it?
 
Fearless Tower said:
Out of curiosity, why do you think there is a difference? The trim wheels in Beech and Piper turn the same way, it is just easier to reach and see it in the Piper. Are you actually looking down at the Piper trim wheel when you move it?
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I think it is turning the bottom of the wheel vs the top.

In the Piper the trim is mounted on the floor between the seats. So you "push" the wheel forward or "pull" the wheel back

In the Beech, you are doing the opposite.

I can't decide if it is that the Piper correlates better to the yoke, or if it has to do with having significantly more hours in a Piper. I learned in a Warrior.
 
Flying from either seat is fine with me ,so long as I'm flying.
 
My first ever landings from the right seat weren't great, but they worked.

Now, I transition from right seat to left seat pretty regularly. I can grease them on from either seat, although the left feels more natural.
 
I've done it before in the Arrow. I'm more comfortable in the left seat but I can do it.
 
Ha, this is great! I just had my first right side landing experience and man was that funky or what?

Don't feel bad buddy, I was so squirrelly that my instructor (owner of the plane) actually got out and inspected the tire on my side to make sure I didn't squeak all the tread off when I side loaded. ;p
 
Reedster said:
I think it is turning the bottom of the wheel vs the top.

In the Piper the trim is mounted on the floor between the seats. So you "push" the wheel forward or "pull" the wheel back

In the Beech, you are doing the opposite.

I can't decide if it is that the Piper correlates better to the yoke, or if it has to do with having significantly more hours in a Piper. I learned in a Warrior.
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I think that makes a little sense. I've flown PA28/32s from the right seat a lot, but have never flown my Baron from the right (no copilot brakes).
 
I got to land my li'l Cherokee from the right seat recently. It sure was a strange experience but not all that different. The only thing that really bothered me was the PPT button that some retarded monkey put on the wrong side of the right yoke. So I tasked my NFP in the left seat with announcing our position, problem solved (for me, not for him). :D
 
Fearless Tower said:
Yeah, I never had an issue landing from the right side, but having flown tailwheel airplanes with a stick and throttle on the left may have helped the transition.
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Yeah, I haven't done any landings from the right seat but I did my tailwheel endorsement in a Decathlon and my seaplane rating in a Citabria and had zero issues using the right hand to fly and the left hand to control the throttle, carb heat, trim or flaps. I do not see how the right seat would be too different from that.
 
I've been wanting to try this for some time now. I need to find someone I'm comfortable to land my Mooney and then let me sit right seat and try it a few times.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Yeah, I haven't done any landings from the right seat but I did my tailwheel endorsement in a Decathlon and my seaplane rating in a Citabria and had zero issues using the right hand to fly and the left hand to control the throttle, carb heat, trim or flaps. I do not see how the right seat would be too different from that.
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I think the biggest difference is a different sight picture than what folks who only fly from the left are used to. My first couple of landings from the right were passable, but by no means as smooth as I typically would be from the left. But it was not because of the controls.
 
BigBadLou said:
I'll take the bullet! :D I'll need a complex sign-off first, though. ;)
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You actually don't need the complex sign-off, but I would need to be comfortable with your Mooney experience and that might be more difficult to obtain. :yes:
 
Many students, mine included, are (were) taught to gradually shift their view to the left runway edge as the nose comes up in the flare, potentially blocking the view down the runway. Studies have shown that's where most pilots are looking, even some who think they're looking down the runway. In any case, there's a tendency to "go" in the direction you are looking, so it takes a while for students to get used to looking left without subtly pulling the nose in that direction.*

I mention this because the tendency to pull the plane in the direction one is looking may crop up again when a right seat pilot is shifting his or her view to the right, for what may be the first time. It, too, will go away with practice.

I know others look straight ahead when landing, or even "through" the panel using their peripheral vision, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

*As an aside, watch videos of students landing. When they are not exactly on the centerline, they are far more likely to land to the left of it than the right. Pretty sure that subtly pulling the plane left as they look left is the reason.
 
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Fearless Tower said:
I think the biggest difference is a different sight picture than what folks who only fly from the left are used to. My first couple of landings from the right were passable, but by no means as smooth as I typically would be from the left. But it was not because of the controls.
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Actually, I was thinking that sight picture might be more of an issue than the controls. I will say that I much prefer the centerline sight picture of a tandem aircraft such as a Citabria over that of any other aircraft I've flown.
 
Anyone know why airplanes are set up for PIC from the left seat? Other than "that's the way it's always been". I'm a lefty and always thought that I had an advantage when flying from the left. I manage from the right but am not near as comfortable with it as from the left.
 
jkaduk said:
Anyone know why airplanes are set up for PIC from the left seat? Other than "that's the way it's always been". I'm a lefty and always thought that I had an advantage when flying from the left. I manage from the right but am not near as comfortable with it as from the left.
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I always assumed it was because the predominant traffic pattern is left and that puts the pilot where he can see the most. Or not?
 
jkaduk said:
Anyone know why airplanes are set up for PIC from the left seat? Other than "that's the way it's always been". I'm a lefty and always thought that I had an advantage when flying from the left. I manage from the right but am not near as comfortable with it as from the left.
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Seeing that most people are right handed, it makes it easier for the captain to smack the FO upside the head when he touches something.
 
jkaduk said:
Anyone know why airplanes are set up for PIC from the left seat? Other than "that's the way it's always been". I'm a lefty and always thought that I had an advantage when flying from the left. I manage from the right but am not near as comfortable with it as from the left.
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A Helo CFI I know says that he flies from the left seat and the student flies on the right. I wonder if it's the same for larger turbine helicopters:dunno:
 
jordane93 said:
A Helo CFI I know says that he flies from the left seat and the student flies on the right. I wonder if it's the same for larger turbine helicopters:dunno:
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The collective is between the seats, so to have the cyclic in the right hand, a helicopter pilot must sit right seat.

Air & Space Magazine said:
“The reason is mostly historical, though there can be some operational advantage. Since most helicopters are more inherently unstable than most airplanes, a helicopter pilot rarely likes to let go of the cyclic stick with his or her right hand, even with trim, and particularly in hover operations where near-continuous control inputs are required. [The cyclic controls the helicopter’s attitude and direction of movement, almost like a combined elevator and aileron for an airplane.]


“In steady flight, the left hand that normally moves the collective lever [which changes all the blades’ pitch angles simultaneously] is sometimes free to push buttons or twiddle instrument knobs that are usually on a center console in a cabin with a side-by-side crew arrangement. Rotor brakes and clutches are also usually centrally located for the same reason.”

The cyclic is usually positioned between the pilot’s knees, so it can’t be shared. A left-handed pilot in the right side seat, presumably, would have to get used to using the right hand for it in much the same way that a lefty copes with a stick shift in a manual-drive car. Most helicopters with side-by-side seating have always had two cyclics.

Connor goes on to explain that when Igor Sikorsky built the world’s first mass-produced helicopter, the R-4 (“and no, Flettner Fl 282 prototypes were not in mass production beforehand,” he adds), weight was a serious issue. “The R-4 was intended as a trainer, but was so underpowered that Sikorsky was looking for any potential savings, so Igor and his engineers decided to let the instructor and student share a single collective. The only place to put it then was in the middle between the two seats. Given the coordination and strength required to manipulate an R-4 cyclic for any length of time, the student always flew from the right.

“Thus, the first generation of U.S. Army Air Forces, Coast Guard, and Navy pilots, along with those from Britain and its Commonwealth who learned on the R-4, and its follow-on, the R-6 (also with a single collective), flew exclusively from the right.”
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Link.
 
jordane93 said:
A Helo CFI I know says that he flies from the left seat and the student flies on the right. I wonder if it's the same for larger turbine helicopters:dunno:
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FastEddieB said:
I was under the impression that all helicopters were normally flown from the right seat.

Is that not correct?
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jordane93 said:
I don't know. I was thinking the same thing.
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Typically the PIC is the right seat on helos.




DJTorrente said:
The collective is between the seats, so to have the cyclic in the right hand, a helicopter pilot must sit right seat.

Link.
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Depends. Hughes 300C and 269B for example, had PIC on the left side. So did many models of the Hughes 500. This was primarily done so they could sit 3 across.



SkyDog58 said:
Most helicopters that I have worked on or been associated with have a collective to the left of both seats.
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Correct.
 
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