First real cross country with the family

labbadabba

labbadabba

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labbadabba
I'm naturally a very cautious flyer and tend to push my boundaries at a slow pace. My wife and kids (5 and 2 1/2 yrs old) are contemplating a trip to the Black Hills and then down to Ft. Collins to see family from the home base at New Century KIXD (South of KC). It's a 10.5 hour drive not including fuel/potty/food stops. To fly it in the club 172 is shy of 5 hours in the air with a fuel stop somewhere in Nebraska.

My wife (who has never flown GA) is intrigued by the idea of cutting our long road trip in half. She's slightly apprehensive but finally seems open to the idea of flying with me. My 5 year-old has flown with me maybe 5 times and does well apart from occasionally complaining of 'sky sickness' as she calls it. The little one hasn't flown with me yet.

This would also be my longest solo XC. I've flown a couple 250nm flights but those were dual.

So, I've got a few butterflies about the trip. I feel confident in my flying, planning, safety margin (we'll be close to gross weight) that I think I can handle the airplane part of the trip. My concern is managing PAX and managing the responsibility to having all my eggs in one basket so to speak. I would be expanding my margins in that I'd be flying my longest XC and with a plane full of my family.

Am I being too ambitious?

A bit about me:
I'm a PPL Instrument Rated
147 hours
11 hours in the past 6 months
Last flight was 10 days ago
IR & Night current
 
dude, FLY that sht.

sounds like an awesome adventure. I might just prepare the lil lady that there could be delays for wx, pee breaks or whatever, but that you're building that into the plan for added safety measures.
 
labbadabba said:
I'm naturally a very cautious flyer and tend to push my boundaries at a slow pace. My wife and kids (5 and 2 1/2 yrs old) are contemplating a trip to the Black Hills and then down to Ft. Collins to see family from the home base at New Century KIXD (South of KC). It's a 10.5 hour drive not including fuel/potty/food stops. To fly it in the club 172 is shy of 5 hours in the air with a fuel stop somewhere in Nebraska.

My wife (who has never flown GA) is intrigued by the idea of cutting our long road trip in half. She's slightly apprehensive but finally seems open to the idea of flying with me. My 5 year-old has flown with me maybe 5 times and does well apart from occasionally complaining of 'sky sickness' as she calls it. The little one hasn't flown with me yet.

This would also be my longest solo XC. I've flown a couple 250nm flights but those were dual.

So, I've got a few butterflies about the trip. I feel confident in my flying, planning, safety margin (we'll be close to gross weight) that I think I can handle the airplane part of the trip. My concern is managing PAX and managing the responsibility to having all my eggs in one basket so to speak. I would be expanding my margins in that I'd be flying my longest XC and with a plane full of my family.

Am I being too ambitious?
Click to expand...
The first flight I took after getting my private certificate was with the whole family, just 1 hr local sightseeing. I stayed within about 30 miles of the home airport. This gave me a chance to see how everyone handled it. Why not take the whole family up locally before you go so far? Also, with my 5 yr old I quickly learned to use the isolate switch on the intercom!

Other than just seeing how everyone does in the air, if you feel confident in your planning and the weather, go for it!
 
I appreciate your apprehension on this. I can't say I for sure would've put this much thought into it! The one thing I'm thinking is, you need to make sure your wife is capable of managing PAX. If airsickness is a thing your kids struggle with, you need to be able to focus on controls and not have to worry about what they're doing. I'm assuming no autopilot. The first half hour to an hour should give a really good idea as to whether it will work or not. Maybe take a practice flight a couple weeks prior for about an hour just to test the waters.
 
Matt said:
The first flight I took after getting my private certificate was with the whole family, just 1 hr local sightseeing. I stayed within about 30 miles of the home airport. This gave me a chance to see how everyone handled it. Why not take the whole family up locally before you go so far? Also, with my 5 yr old I quickly learned to use the isolate switch on the intercom!

Other than just seeing how everyone does in the air, if you feel confident in your planning and the weather, go for it!
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I've used that with 25 year old PAX. It's just easier than asking them to shut up
 
Matt said:
...Why not take the whole family up locally before you go so far? ...
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I almost suggested this as well, but then thought that typically short local flights are done down low in bumpy air. a long trip like this u can get up high and hopefully find smooth air. worth a shot, especially if u can go up in the early am or evening.
 
eman1200 said:
I almost suggested this as well, but then thought that typically short local flights are done down low in bumpy air. a long trip like this u can get up high and hopefully find smooth air. worth a shot, especially if u can go up in the early am or evening.
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Solid advice. I had a friend who was interested in learning to fly and signed up for one of those 30 minute discovery flights. The instructor took him and his wife up in a DA-40 at like 2PM on a summer afternoon. Of course they spent the entire flight getting kicked around by the normal afternoon bumps and hated it/ felt airsick. I hate flying in them too.. I will take a 30kt headwind over having to ride around in the thermals any day.

If you are going to take friends/family on a "short local flight" make sure you do it at dusk/dawn. Or just take a longer trip that will allow you to climb above the bumps. I've taken several friends on longer trips for their first GA flight and they all thought it was great. Get them up high where the air is smooth and bring a few beers for them. Just be sure to brief a sterile cockpit rule so they aren't chatting away when you are trying to land.
 
eman1200 said:
I almost suggested this as well, but then thought that typically short local flights are done down low in bumpy air. a long trip like this u can get up high and hopefully find smooth air. worth a shot, especially if u can go up in the early am or evening.
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I had the same concerns, but picked an early morning flight and was ready to scrub if conditions weren't good. Definitely want the first flight to be memorable for the RIGHT reasons!
 
Thanks all.

I'll need to look at the intercom for an iso switch. No AP in that bird but that's okay. Good advice on the bumps. Typically when I'm flying westward I stay low to keep out of the winds but flying at 8,500 might be a better option for comfort.

I have the plane booked and I'm going to base my final decision on the weather. If the weather looks clear of solid IMC (esp around the mountains) and storms I think we'll fly. I'm planning this for memorial day weekend so I doubt I'll have time to take up the whole family unless I can do it this weekend.
 
You'll be fine. Once you do a couple long x/c trips it becomes second nature. That's about all we do now. WE used to hop in and do quick runs for food but now we do 2-6 hours and actually go somewhere. Freaking awesome! ENJOY IT!!
 
I've never had to use the isolate switch outside the context of a CAP SAR flight using multiple radios simultaneously. That's just not a problem.

Given your very low recurring hours -- 11 over 6 months -- I'd encourage you to go out and practice airwork and landings prior to the trip.
 
MAKG1 said:
I've never had to use the isolate switch outside the context of a CAP SAR flight using multiple radios simultaneously. That's just not a problem.

Given your very low recurring hours -- 11 over 6 months -- I'd encourage you to go out and practice airwork and landings prior to the trip.
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If it was just my wife and daughter, no iso switch needed. However, my 5 year old son wakes up talking and talks himself to sleep at night! That switch gives me a few moments of peace!
 
All good suggestions so far!

With kids that age I would definitely have a list of stops along the way every 20-30 minutes. Not that you'll use them but have them preplanned. Cutting a 5 hour trip into two equal slices (2.5 hours each) will likely require some luck with the kids. Just be prepared for 2 stops and don't sweat it.

Don't look at the trip as cutting much time. In the grand scheme of things you're turning a boring road trip into an adventure!!! That's what it's all about.

Fwiw, I think the idea of taking the whole family up a time or two beforehand is great but don't necessarily let that be an accurate indicator of how the trip will go. I find that for my kids especially the short hops / sight seeing trips at semi lower altitudes are more tiring and less pleasant. You're landing and taking off half the time. Usually a little warmer and often more bumps... Tell the kids we're going to the beach and climb to 9-10k feet and buddy they have no trouble relaxing for 2-3 hours. That's just been my experience.
 
labbadabba said:
I'm naturally a very cautious flyer and tend to push my boundaries at a slow pace. My wife and kids (5 and 2 1/2 yrs old) are contemplating a trip to the Black Hills and then down to Ft. Collins to see family from the home base at New Century KIXD (South of KC). It's a 10.5 hour drive not including fuel/potty/food stops. To fly it in the club 172 is shy of 5 hours in the air with a fuel stop somewhere in Nebraska.

My wife (who has never flown GA) is intrigued by the idea of cutting our long road trip in half. She's slightly apprehensive but finally seems open to the idea of flying with me. My 5 year-old has flown with me maybe 5 times and does well apart from occasionally complaining of 'sky sickness' as she calls it. The little one hasn't flown with me yet.

This would also be my longest solo XC. I've flown a couple 250nm flights but those were dual.

So, I've got a few butterflies about the trip. I feel confident in my flying, planning, safety margin (we'll be close to gross weight) that I think I can handle the airplane part of the trip. My concern is managing PAX and managing the responsibility to having all my eggs in one basket so to speak. I would be expanding my margins in that I'd be flying my longest XC and with a plane full of my family.

Am I being too ambitious?

A bit about me:
I'm a PPL Instrument Rated
147 hours
11 hours in the past 6 months
Last flight was 10 days ago
IR & Night current
Click to expand...
Hope you enjoy the trip. KGRI is bit less than 1/2 from KIXD on the way to KRAP and the folks at Trego Dugan FBO are helpful. Grand Island has some good restaurants and Trego will loan you a car if you call ahead 800 652-0018 (Angie or Meagan). Have you traveled to the Black Hills / Rapid City before?
 
My first cross country flight, and first solo flight in 20+ years was one and the same... picked up my plane in So Oregon, and flu it home to So California.. had a stop for the night as I did not want my 2nd landing in the plane to be in the dark... It's all good, Just follow the magenta line, and you too will find the land of Oz.
 
MAKG1 said:
I've never had to use the isolate switch outside the context of a CAP SAR flight using multiple radios simultaneously. That's just not a problem.

Given your very low recurring hours -- 11 over 6 months -- I'd encourage you to go out and practice airwork and landings prior to the trip.
Click to expand...

lol, I did that and posted about it a couple weeks back. I got a lot of crap for going out and doing airwork rather than long XCs...
 
labbadabba said:
lol, I did that and posted about it a couple weeks back. I got a lot of crap for going out and doing airwork rather than long XCs...
Click to expand...
To each their own. Some people like doing touch and go's. We have a guy who rents with us and only does touch and go's. He's had his private for a few years now and he's just getting started on his instrument. If you like doing that then who cares? Personally I wanted to explore so I did some cross countries. They guy doing airwork or touch and go's doesn't affect me so I don't really care
 
Briar Rabbit said:
Hope you enjoy the trip. KGRI is bit less than 1/2 from KIXD on the way to KRAP and the folks at Trego Dugan FBO are helpful. Grand Island has some good restaurants and Trego will loan you a car if you call ahead 800 652-0018 (Angie or Meagan). Have you traveled to the Black Hills / Rapid City before?
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Many many moons ago. By car. With my parents.
 
It was great traveling with the kiddos when they were in diapers... even after, but the oldest (soon to be 26) still whines.:rolleyes:
 
labbadabba said:
lol, I did that and posted about it a couple weeks back. I got a lot of crap for going out and doing airwork rather than long XCs...
Click to expand...

Both are important. A long cross country isn't very efficient at practicing stuff. You tend to fly in a straight line at constant altitude for long periods, and then practice everything on the descent and approach, with one shot. And local proficiency practice isn't very good at dealing with changing conditions far away.
 
Change of plans, now we're going to spend the weekend in Estes Park, CO. Got a great deal on lodging, so looks like I'll fly to the hills another time. Now to plan for a trip Colorado...
 
MAKG1 said:
Both are important. A long cross country isn't very efficient at practicing stuff. You tend to fly in a straight line at constant altitude for long periods, and then practice everything on the descent and approach, with one shot. And local proficiency practice isn't very good at dealing with changing conditions far away.
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Totally agree. I like when the CFI heads us a ways off to a towered airport and we do touch and go's there, a few maneuvers on the return, where the strip is a different direction and has different winds . Good all around practice.
 
Just be sure your wife understands you could run into weather delays, and that you do not intend to push the weather. You might even have to make an unplanned stop and wait out a thunderstorm. And, leave a day or so at the end to give you more flexibility. Discussion like this with your pax will take a lot of the pressure off the pilot. Most accidents are a result of somebody pushing it too much. Also, I recommend you call ahead to your planned fuel stops to make sure there isn't some kind of issue with their fuel supply. You definitely do not want to get there and find out their fuel supplier went bankrupt or their truck broke down, or they closed early for the local Memorial Day parade. Most of all, have a great time!
 
Go for it. 5yo up front with an ipad, mom in back with the 2.5yo, hopefully they all get bored and fall asleep.

In addition to flying the airplane, it's your job to manage expectations. Tell your pax that it may be loud or bumpy in the climb, or that you can always turn back, or that you may need to go around on landing... then smile when you don't have to.
 
GeorgeC said:
Go for it. 5yo up front with an ipad, mom in back with the 2.5yo, hopefully they all get bored and fall asleep.

In addition to flying the airplane, it's your job to manage expectations. Tell your pax that it may be loud or bumpy in the climb, or that you can always turn back, or that you may need to go around on landing... then smile when you don't have to.
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I've toyed with this idea. Not only for dealing with the little one but also to put us closer to the middle of the W&B envelope. If we flew the C177 we would absolutely need to do this.
 
I took my wife on lots of shorter trips in the beginning. KC is 2.5+ hour drive and an hour in the air. We just took our longest trip 792 NM, would have been a 16 hour drive and it took about 4.5 hours by air. Could have made it non stop, but decided to stop for gas and lunch to stretch our legs.

I know lots of pilots who have a spouse that won't fly with them. Don't push it too hard too fast and risk ending up with one yourself.

Jim
 
Just mitigate risk.

Don't take them into IMC, follow a major road if possible, and fly at a high cruise altitude.

You'll be nervous as crap taxing and taking off because it's your family at stake, but once you get that first 1k feet AGL below you, it'll all feel fine.
 
labbadabba said:
Change of plans, now we're going to spend the weekend in Estes Park, CO. Got a great deal on lodging, so looks like I'll fly to the hills another time. Now to plan for a trip Colorado...
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Fortunately, it's flat land. But always as early as possible. We're now into Tstorm weather every afternoon.

Let us know when, and some of the Colorado crew might be able to drive to Estes or fly to your airport destination and say hi. Suggest you fly into LMO. Really surprise your wife when total strangers welcome you to Colorado......(*evil grin*)
 
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jordane93 said:
To each their own. Some people like doing touch and go's. We have a guy who rents with us and only does touch and go's. He's had his private for a few years now and he's just getting started on his instrument. If you like doing that then who cares? Personally I wanted to explore so I did some cross countries. They guy doing airwork or touch and go's doesn't affect me so I don't really care
Click to expand...

Lol this sounds like me...I go out like twice a week after work and just do touch and goes...mostly because I don't have a lot of time after work to fly somewhere but I still like to get up and stay active.
 
labbadabba said:
I've toyed with this idea. Not only for dealing with the little one but also to put us closer to the middle of the W&B envelope. If we flew the C177 we would absolutely need to do this.
Click to expand...
See if you can get your 2yo to wear a headset around the house if you don't take her up first. My 4yo threw a fit, wanted nothing to do with that headset. Mom couldn't do much to help the situation, can't reach back there from the front. Meanwhile I'm trying to do the run up. She finally got content when she threw it in the floor and got the wires off her. We communicated with thumbs up the rest of the flight. We just did a short area flight. Next try we did a 20 min flight to a near airport, walked around, got a donut. She put up with the headset on that one.
 
Yes, fly to KLMO or KBJC and we'll get a group together to welcome you and your family. There will be food involved!

What is the timing for this adventure?

And please - if you've got 147 hours with just 11 in the last six months, make sure you get a bunch of practice before flying your family. Reduce your risk by reducing your variables - knowing your airplane well is a good way to do this.
 
I don't mean to threadjack, maybe this has been discussed elsewhere...but I'm curious if you put the kiddos in car seats?
 
LifeAsBen said:
I don't mean to threadjack, maybe this has been discussed elsewhere...but I'm curious if you put the kiddos in car seats?
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All the time for our youngest, up until she grew out of it.
 
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LifeAsBen said:
I don't mean to threadjack, maybe this has been discussed elsewhere...but I'm curious if you put the kiddos in car seats?
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Absolutely, not only for the extra safety but it also boosts them up so they can actually see out the window.
 
G-Man said:
Yes, fly to KLMO or KBJC and we'll get a group together to welcome you and your family. There will be food involved!

What is the timing for this adventure?

And please - if you've got 147 hours with just 11 in the last six months, make sure you get a bunch of practice before flying your family. Reduce your risk by reducing your variables - knowing your airplane well is a good way to do this.
Click to expand...
murphey said:
Fortunately, it's flat land. But always as early as possible. We're now into Tstorm weather every afternoon.

Let us know when, and some of the Colorado crew might be able to drive to Estes or fly to your airport destination and say hi. Suggest you fly into LMO. Really surprise your wife when total strangers welcome you to Colorado......(*evil grin*)
Click to expand...

Thanks guys! Yeah, planning on KLMO at this point. I have family I'll be seeing Ft. Collins after a few days in Estes Park but it makes more sense to fly in and out of KLMO since Highway 34 is closed. Looking at arriving on Thursday morning to find a rental car to move up into the hills.
 
My first thought was "can you leave the kids at home for this one". :) Great advice so far, if you do go to the Black Hill someday use KCUT. I've had great experiences there. Remember, your DA calculations, especially in a 172 at gross, and you'll be fine.
 
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