First Plane and Cirrus SR20 Gen 1/2/3 related questions.

spdracer888

spdracer888

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spdracer888
Hi all, newbie here and I'm considering my first plane. Let me explain my situation and what I plan to do with the plane:

  1. I'm not asking about Rent vs Buy; as Rent is definitely cheaper.
  2. I'm looking to buy because I want be on my own schedule.
  3. I don't have my VFR yet and all my training so far has been in the 152s & 172s.
  4. I like to finish my VFR and IFR in it and perhaps step up to a SR-22 in a few years.
  5. I plan to fly to places mainly on the East Coast that are within 350 miles away from me a few times a month. Maybe once in a while do a trip that's 1,000 miles.
  6. While a plane is a depreciating asset, I hate losing my shirt on depreciation after a few years. Hence I'm looking for a pre-owned plane.
  7. When I'm not flying, I would like to have the plane be available to rent (not to student pilots), though I'm still not 100% sure on this.
  8. I have the financial resource to buy something up to $200K, though I don't need to have the latest and the greatest.
  9. SR-20 is my top choice b/c I like the way it looks, its glass cockpit and its performance for a fixed gear single prop.
  10. I'm don't have to have a SR-20. A friend of mine recommended the Grumman Tiger as my first plane.
With that said, I'm interested in hearing from people who have seriously considered purchasing or purchased a Cirrus SR-20. There's a big difference in price between Gen 1 and Gen 3 SR-20s. Are there noticeable difference in maintenance, performance and reliability between Gen 1/2/3? If you have seriously considered a Cirrus but ended up with something else, what is it and why?

I appreciate all the help in advance.
 
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If I were going to spend $200K to do complex training in, I would go for a used Comanche or Mooney and fix it up so far as the interior goes. While the Cirrus models get a lot of attention (because Cirrus has such a huge and effective marketing department), they aren't really any better, at least in my opinion, than what has come before. I have a little time in a SR20 (thanks to a Cirrus sales rep; not sure which generation it was though), a lot in the Comanche (my instructor up in Michigan owned one) and a couple hours in the Mooney. The only thing the Cirrus has over the other two really is the comfort level of the seats.
 
spdracer888 said:
Hi all, newbie here and I'm considering my first plane. Let me explain my situation and what I plan to do with the plane:

  1. I'm not asking about Rent vs Buy; as Rent is definitely cheaper.
  2. I'm looking to buy because I want be on my own schedule.
  3. I don't have my VFR yet and all my training so far has been in the 152s & 172s.
  4. I like to finish my VFR and IFR in it and perhaps step up to a SR-22 in a few years.
  5. I plan to fly to places mainly on the East Coast that are within 350 miles away from me a few times a month. Maybe once in a while do a trip that's 1,000 miles.
  6. While a plane is a depreciating asset, I hate losing my shirt on depreciation after a few years. Hence I'm looking for a pre-owned plane.
  7. When I'm not flying, I would like to have the plane be available to rent (not to student pilots), though I'm still not 100% sure on this.
  8. I have the financial resource to buy something up $200K, though I don't need have the latest and the greatest.
  9. SR-20 is my top choice b/c I like the way it looks, its glass cockpit and its performance for a fixed gear single prop.
  10. I'm don't have to have a SR-20. A friend of mine recommended the Grumman Tiger as my first plane.
With that said, I'm interested in hearing from people who have seriously considered purchasing or purchased a Cirrus SR-20. There's a big difference in price between Gen 1 and Gen 3 SR-20s. Are there noticeable difference in maintenance, performance and reliability between Gen 1/2/3? If you have seriously considered a Cirrus but ended up with something else, what is it and why?

I appreciate all the help in advance.
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Might I suggest you first start with an Insurance broker and let him quote you on Insurance and training requirements for a Cirrus. Cirrus is not looked upon favorably in the Insurance market and the aircraft commands a high dollar premium as well as required hours in type. More than likely you will be required to go through a CPPP: http://www.cirruspilots.org/Content/CPPPHome.aspx

Your mission profile allows you to move into a variety of aircraft that will meet your needs while keeping operating expenses in check. Lastly, new owners tend to forget the associated incidentals (Hangar, Insurance, annual, databases,,,,) with aircraft ownership.

The older Cirrus aircraft has some caveats you need to be aware of; some glass avionics may no longer be supported and or updatable. The Cirrus chutes will need to be repacked based on age (I think). It's around 10K to do this. This might be an interesting read for you. http://airfactsjournal.com/2012/05/dicks-blog-whats-wrong-with-cirrus-pilots/

Unless you are hellbent on nothing but a Cirrus, you will find much better, equipped aircraft that will cost you less to use and operate. I too was considering a Cirrus G2 and the more I did my due diligence the less I wanted a Cirrus. Next aircraft will likely be a Mooney Ovation3 or a Bonanza A36.

Good luck in the discovery process!
 
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My first plane was a cessna 172. Was nice to build experience and confidence. Then I bought a Comanche and learned lots from that experience. Have had couple more since. I looked at the cirrus and the gen 2 was the minimum I would have gone with. I ended up with a columbia 350 or cessna 350 whichever. I decided I would rather put money in a newer plane than in a old one. I still have a couple old ones and like them. The 350 is a complete different experience as far as I'm concerned. I like it very much. I'm sure many people here will give you different opinions but while I won't give up my old cessna's right now I'm enjoying the new one. I love the G1000.
 
My first (and so far only) plane was a 182RG. It was half your budget, and though it isn't glass it's very nicely equipped for IFR flight. If you want to get your commercial you wouldn't be able to do it in a Cirrus either. Even on my airplane insurance is NOT cheap for a new pilot. The glass stuff is nice but certainly isn't required for IFR flight. Really a GPS isnt either but I wouldn't have bought my airplane without the 430 in it.
 
I'd sit in one first to make sure you are comfortable, but a DA40 is almost always a better first plane than an SR20 and you can get a >2008 one with all the bells and whistles for your budget.
 
In this market, I would keep an eye out for someone who owns one and see if he would sell a partnership or let you pay some of his expenses in exchange to let you fly it.

If you do the NEP non equity partnership it helps him to lower his out of pocket month by month, you get use of an owner but not the depreciation or major risk.

After doing this a year or two you will know all the relative issues and if you still want to be the 100% owner on the same plane that is easy, just buy one then with all the new gained information. If I were going to buy a carbon plane SR20 would be high on my list.

I would rather be partner or NEP than owner trying to rent my plane to ???? to help me with expenses.

Why would you pay $200k for Gen3 rather than $100k for Gen1?
 
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Wingsofglass said:
I'd sit in one first to make sure you are comfortable, but a DA40 is almost always a better first plane than an SR20 and you can get a >2008 one with all the bells and whistles for your budget.
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And the DA40 won't turn you into flambe'..................

Buy a Mooney. An old C model will keep up with an SR20 for 1/4 of the budget, or a 201 will outpace it by 15 knots for half the budget.

Or just buy a nice TC A36. For the love of FSM, don't buy a Cirrus.
 
SteveinIndy said:
If I were going to spend $200K to do complex training in, I would go for a used Comanche or Mooney and fix it up so far as the interior goes.
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Probably not much market to lease back a Comanche or Mooney for rental when the owner isn't flying it, so those are probably nonstarters for the OP. That said, if the OP is going to lease it back, s/he will either be at the mercy of the schedule of other pilots signing up to use the plane, or by preempting other pilots will discourage its use by those others; one will have a significant impact on utility, the other on financial considerations.

The biggest differences between the G1 and G3 SR20's are the avionics and the landing gear. The G1 will either be steam gauges or the original Avidyne display with dual Garmin 430's, while the G3 will have the entirely glass G1000 or Perspective avionics suite. The G3 also has the longer landing gear, making it a bit easier to make consistently good landings without risking nosewheel-first or tail skagging landings. Those two issues, along with the extra years of wear abd tear, are the main reasons for the higher prices for the G3 planes.

Finally, an SR20 should be a perfectly good plane for the shorter missions, but you may wish for more speed for the 1000 mile trips. The only thing you didn't mention was payload, but as long as you're not carrying more than two adults plus baggage, the 20 should be fine in that area.
 
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@CT Arrow: thank you for the useful links :)

@WingofGlass & Dave: I thought I read some where that the DA40 has some undesirable characteristics in unstable air?

@Tony: Bumping others is a big "no no" in my book hence my reservation about renting out the plane.

@Cap'n Ron: As for payload, I rather have a proper 4-seater though most of the time it will be just another adult. (I don't know if that was a dumb comment or not...lol).

These are all very good advices and please keep them coming.
 
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Re #4.

IMO you don't want to "step up" if you can at all avoid it. I wish it were as simple as trading in a car, but it isn't. You have two separate transactions which are going to cost you a lot of time and money.

If you want to stay with a Cirrus I would go straight to the SR-22. It may take you a little longer to transition, OK, fine, pennies compared to buying and selling. Besides the extra time with your instructor can be put to good use learning to actually use an aircraft to go somewhere.

Performance is your friend. Once you get used to it there is no downside. In many cases it can offer increased safety (fly higher over terrain, climb quicker, handle a load better, etc.).
 
My first airplane was a SR 20. It was a great first plane that spoiled my family and me. Now that we have out grown a Cirrus (except Cirrus Jet) we are looking at other airplanes, but none of them compare to the Cirrus. None are as wide, have the # of doors, the ease of maintenance, the parachute and the cost factor of the Cirrus. I bought my 2006 G2 in 2009 for $165k, I had it for 2 years. My annuals (including deferred maintenance - like updating 430's) cost no more than $3500. My insurance was $1750ish.

I sold the plane because we moved to DC for an advanced degreee and I didn't want the burden of hangering a plane 1 hour away, etc. I sold it for $160K.

We flew the airplane from NC to TX (1,000NM) every other month. During those flights, I realized I wanted a jet (but can only afford a piston single). For those long legs, I wanted my IFR (still only VFR), A/C (is a must, we will not even consider a plane without one), more speed (mine did 150KTS LOP at 10GPH with no problem but 200kts would be better), and 2 more seats (because my wife will pack the kitchen sink if she could).

For useful load our MTOW was 3,000, empty weight was 2124, full fuel was 56 gallons or 336 lbs, so full fuel useful load was 540.

More to follow.
 
540lbs was enough for my family with 100lbs left for baggage. I also flew 3 big guys with golf clubs, but it was less than 300nm.

With full fuel I could easily do around 600nm depending on wind. Thus, NC to TX was done with only 1 fuel stop. I flew the Eastern Sea Board with no problem.

If your want is a SR 22, I would go straight to it. I would own 1 today if it could seat six. Or I would own a newer 20 with A/C.

My thoughts:

DA 40, no A/C. Green house effect from canopy. Didn't like the seats. (the wife and I flew one with John Armstrong--- Diamond sales rep) If you do get one, they require sheep skin on the seats... which made it hotter for me....

Mooney, got in it with the wife and kid, got right out of it. The loading sucks with only 1 door. (we have 2 young kids 3 and 1) So loading the car seats sucked, only 1 door sucked, etc.... didn't even bother flying it.... However, I heard they are fun to fly..

Beach A36, narrow! Currently on our buy list...

Piper Saratoga, no longer in production. But very nice airplane, currently on our buy list.

Good luck in your decision. Test them all out and decide for yourself.
 
I have a lot of time in G1 and G2 SR22's and spent several hours in an SR20 (G1) flying around Australia. I would rather have an older SR22 than a newer SR20 for the same dollars. The larger engine makes a bigger difference than the other bells and whistles. While the extra speed is nice it is the extra climb performance that is the biggest difference. Also, the extra useful load is very nice. You have to fly them back to back to understand how big the difference is. Think of a car which will eventually get to 80 vs. a car with an excess of power that makes passing on a two lane road easy.

If you join COPA (Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association) there is a file available which explains model differences. Cirrus doesn’t do model years so changes are serial number based. For example a December 2005 is the same as a January 2006 but an April 2006 is different in some meaningful ways.

Contrary to what the non-Cirrus people posted here, I have found insurance no higher than comparable planes. Maintenance is appropriate to the level of "stuff" on the plane i.e. it is higher than a stripped down plane but not, for example, a comparable Bonanza. The one exception is the 10 year chute repack. BTW, that is cheaper on a G2 onward than on a G1 due to added access ports. The $10K price mentioned earlier is a good working number.

Before you get a Mooney or Bonanza have your family get in and out and compare. I was hot for a Mooney but my ex nixed it the moment she got in and out of one. Never mind the efficiency, great fit and finish etc. of the Mooney.

The DA40 is a great plane. Be sure you are happy with the center stick for long trips, the seating and ingress/egress. It's a personal thing so form your own opinion.

The 22 is excellent for long trips. It has a smooth ride without some of the Dutch roll tendencies that can make sitting in the back of some planes, such as a V-tail Bonanza, uncomfortable in turbulence. The high wing loading means a relatively smooth ride in turbulence but also a lot of kinetic energy when landing so you will want to keep that in mind. Cross wind landing capability is excellent. On the other hand it isn't a the best plane for unimproved fields. A Bonanza or Mooney handles unimproved fields better.

There are lots of planes for sale on Controller. Hence I think the SR22 is the best buy out there. In your price range there are excellent low time planes.

Join COPA (can't say that enough) and send me a message if you have other questions.
 
@ John & Paul (it's almost a boy band here...lol): thanks a million for the detailed info. I definitely will be hitting you up with follow up questions.

Cheers mates!
 
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How do the maintenance costs compare with a G1 SR20 and a similar year C172sp or Archer? It seems like you can buy a whole lot more airplane in the Cirrus for a similar price as the cessna.


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I suggest joining the type clubs for all the makes that you are considering. Before I bought last summer, I joined the type clubs for Cirrus, Cessna and Beechcraft (and I would have joined one for Mooney, if I could have). You can ask lots of questions there, and get good answers. You can get some bad answers here from people who don't really know much about a make, for example the suggestion upthread that insurance is costly for Cirrus because insurers are scornful of the make (this is untrue, and actually you'll find insurance comparable for an SR20 vs. C172). As mentioned upthread, the type club for Cirrus is COPA, and it is a very good type club. The Cessna club (CPA) and Beechcraft club are similarly very useful and vigorously active.

I considered both SR20 and SR22 last summer, when I was shopping. For $200k you can buy a late G1 SR22 vs a late G2 or early G3 SR20.

As for SR20 vs. SR22, for the 350 NM mission you have in mind the speed difference might not make much difference in flight time (ask in a type club and you'll be told what everyone gets for TAS, then you can calculate your flight time yourself). The cabins are the same so passenger comfort is identical in the two planes unless you get a/c which is available only in the SR22. One difference is that most SR22s have TKS anti-ice but none of the SR20s do, and this matters because the laminar wing of a Cirrus cannot carry ice as well as Cessnas etc. For both the 20 and 22 a late model G1 is about like a G2 - there's very little difference. The checklist and performance are the same for G1 and G2. Earlier G1s will have a six-pack and a correspondingly lower price, which would be the biggest difference to care about. The G3 has the advantage of an improved wing design as its most significant difference, and I've been told that for the SR20 it was a considerable help, so that if I were considering a late G2 vs. early G3 SR-20 I would favor the G3.

If you learn in an SR20, the transition to an SR22 will be easy, although your insurance company will make you start over in counting hours as it affects your rate -- this could amount to as much as a couple of thousand dollars extra total cost in your insurance over the years, if you switch planes -- which isn't the biggest cost you'll face.
 
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My partners (four of us total) did a bake off between C182, SR20 and DA40 last year. We settled on a 2007 DA40XL. We are all IFR, fairly low time pilots ranging from 220 to about 400 hrs, and all of our mission profiles are within Texas and the bordering states. The DA40 is the most forgiving airplane in its class and we believe it to be the best fit for us. The insurance rates are low, operating expenses are far lower than the C182 and SR20 and maintenance is reasonable (last annual cost $1800). Useful load is about 850 (50 gal tanks). We typically cruise at 135KT at 8.5 gal/hr. It has the best view in general aviation. We have G1000 and GFC700 autopilot with XM WX and entertainment, TAWS-B, SafeTaxi and TAS.

It has the best safety record in GA but as it gains in popularity (recently named "Best GA Aircraft of 2012" by Aero News Network) one wonders if that will change with more fleet hours per year. It does seem to attract a more risk averse crowd than the SR20 so that probably has a lot to do with it as well.

One of the biggest factors for me was and remains, my own proficiency. Proficiency requires a lot of continuous effort and dedication. The more performance in the machine, the more effort required to remain proficient, i.e., safe. I only fly about 100 hrs/yr now and I just couldn't see myself keeping up with a higher performance machine than the three we considered. Using the airplane primarily as transportation, I fly almost exclusively single-pilot IFR, glass with autopilot bubbled up near the top of the must-have feature list for me.

For us it's still a dream come true but it took us many years to get here. Take your time. Finish your PPL and if you are considering the purchase of an airplane as transportation then I'm going to express my harda$$ opinion that you absolutely must commit to an instrument rating. Be honest with yourself about your mission profile and then try to get some stick time with as many airplanes in the class you think might best fit your profile.
 
It has the best safety record in GA but as it gains in popularity (recently named "Best GA Aircraft of 2012" by Aero News Network) one wonders if that will change with more fleet hours per year.
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Even if you just look at the number of incidents/accidents versus the number of fatal crashes, it still comes out on top of any reasonably common aircraft in terms of safety. Just about no matter how you shake it out, it's a damn good aircraft from a safety standpoint. Out of the mass produced aircraft, if I had to be in a crash, the DA-40 would be at the top of the list. The Cirrus SR20 and SR22 would be pretty close to the bottom of it. The only thing I wish the DA-40 had that it does not is the ballistic parachute.
 
CT Arrow said:
Might I suggest you first start with an Insurance broker and let him quote you on Insurance and training requirements for a Cirrus. Cirrus is not looked upon favorably in the Insurance market and the aircraft commands a high dollar premium as well as required hours in type. More than likely you will be required to go through a CPPP: http://www.cirruspilots.org/Content/CPPPHome.aspx

Your mission profile allows you to move into a variety of aircraft that will meet your needs while keeping operating expenses in check. Lastly, new owners tend to forget the associated incidentals (Hangar, Insurance, annual, databases,,,,) with aircraft ownership.

The older Cirrus aircraft has some caveats you need to be aware of; some glass avionics may no longer be supported and or updatable. The Cirrus chutes will need to be repacked based on age (I think). It's around 10K to do this. This might be an interesting read for you. http://airfactsjournal.com/2012/05/dicks-blog-whats-wrong-with-cirrus-pilots/

Unless you are hellbent on nothing but a Cirrus, you will find much better, equipped aircraft that will cost you less to use and operate. I too was considering a Cirrus G2 and the more I did my due diligence the less I wanted a Cirrus. Next aircraft will likely be a Mooney Ovation3 or a Bonanza A36.

Good luck in the discovery process!
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There is another thread discussing Mr Collins' analysis with this article as the basis. The article could use a rewrite. Run a PoA search for that url to see what I mean.
 
peppy said:
Contrary to what the non-Cirrus people posted here, I have found insurance no higher than comparable planes. .
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I think you missed the point...he has no documented experience in high performance aircraft (student pilot) and probably minimal time in 152 / 172. What Insurance carrier is going to say "sure, you not a risk, here ya go!.
 
CT Arrow said:
I think you missed the point...he has no documented experience in high performance aircraft (student pilot) and probably minimal time in 152 / 172. What Insurance carrier is going to say "sure, you not a risk, here ya go!.
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Many student pilots start in Cirri, they get insurance.

SteveinIndy said:
Even if you just look at the number of incidents/accidents versus the number of fatal crashes, it still comes out on top of any reasonably common aircraft in terms of safety. Just about no matter how you shake it out, it's a damn good aircraft from a safety standpoint. Out of the mass produced aircraft, if I had to be in a crash, the DA-40 would be at the top of the list. The Cirrus SR20 and SR22 would be pretty close to the bottom of it. The only thing I wish the DA-40 had that it does not is the ballistic parachute.
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Nah, I'd take a Mooney in a crash, if I HAD to crash.
 
Hi spdracer888,

I started in a cirrus right after my private. I have about 10 hours in an SR22 and 20 hours in an SR20 gen 3.

Three things I think you will find useful to know:

Firstly, I've read loads that it takes much longer to finish your VFR in a Cirrus due to hacking the landings. So I would finish your VFR in your current trainer.

Secondly before choosing a SR20 vs SR22, fly both! - the power difference is insane. Disregarding utility, price and mission objectives that everyone has talked about, SR22 is just a hell of a lot more fun!!

And thirdly; Burn this in to your brain: (I'm not an instructor so talk about this with a cirrus instructor) Be absolutely militant about your airspeed crossing the fence, do not drop below the approach speeds. Get it into ground effect and round them out low. When you do your power off stalls during your transition training you will see how quickly the nose pitches forward in the Cirruses. I have heard people always porpoise them and know of two incidents at my airport alone.
 
Nah, I'd take a Mooney in a crash, if I HAD to crash.
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A Mooney is probably the other one close to the top of my choices. If it had energy attenuating seats, it would be even better.
 
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I wouldn't buy the 20 with the intention of moving up to the 22, that'll be more expensive and you'll be less capable in your new 22 the day you take ownership.

200K buys a hella nice Bonanza :)
 
bartmc said:
I wouldn't buy the 20 with the intention of moving up to the 22, that'll be more expensive and you'll be less capable in your new 22 the day you take ownership.

200K buys a hella nice Bonanza :)
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Even though I own a DA40, I admit that a well equipped Bo is a whole lotta utility per acquisition dollar. It's also a lot of performance to keep up with for a new pilot.

There is no one-size-fits-all answer to the OP's inquiry, probably the only unanimous opinion that will come out of this community on the question. There are more than half a dozen good entry level airplanes at the $200K price point that come to mind immediately. We can all be thankful that, subject to the fairly liberal regulatory parameters of the American national airspace system, we live in a country where we have the freedom to choose and fly what we want, where we want, when we want.

Just remember, launching into the air in a flying machine is a very risky business, but those risks can be well managed, and if you do, then a lifetime of rare privilege and wonder is yours for the taking. One of the things that I love most about the craft of flying is that there is no faking it. It forces us to be brutally honest with ourselves. So reflect long and hard on your ability and willingness to perpetually learn the craft to perfection. Then decide which machine you think will best fit your new lifestyle.
 
I'm in the northest so how important is it to have a hanger? The airport closest to my office KFRG only has tie-downs available for rent. I can drive an extra 25 minutes to ISP and possibly get a hangar.
 
spdracer888 said:
I'm in the northest so how important is it to have a hanger? The airport closest to my office KFRG only has tie-downs available for rent. I can drive an extra 25 minutes to ISP and possibly get a hangar.
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I drive 42 miles to reach a hangar, and drive past an airport that's 8 miles from my house. A guy at the airport keeps his on the ramp with a cover over it. One look at where the cover aint convinced me.
 
spdracer888 said:
I'm in the northest so how important is it to have a hanger? The airport closest to my office KFRG only has tie-downs available for rent. I can drive an extra 25 minutes to ISP and possibly get a hangar.
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I can appreciate the pain in the a$$ extra drive to islip and added cost verse just keeping it in farmingdale. However, I think a hangar adds tremendous value and makes a huge difference in keeping the elements off your plane; rain, snow, heat, bird droppings, UV damage, pollutants,,,. These all take their toll on paint, seals,,. Think about the last snow pile we had and you shoveling it off your plane and away from your plane. Add in preheating outside and that sucks!

My arrow was repainted in 2001 and lives in a hangar. The paint looks new and so does the interior all due to living indoors. Preheating in the winter is as easy as plugging in the heater and warming the engine.
 
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spdracer888 said:
I'm in the northest so how important is it to have a hanger? The airport closest to my office KFRG only has tie-downs available for rent. I can drive an extra 25 minutes to ISP and possibly get a hangar.
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Most of my friends on the East coast do not have a hangar. They are just too expensive. Makes flying a non starter for most.

You can get a cover for the cabin to keep sunlight from damaging the inside of the plane and also water proofing the doors/seals which might otherwise let some rain seep in.

If you want a hangar you are either very well off or join a club/partnership to share the huge expense.

Most of the guys blasting off about how important a hangar pay $150 per month, you will pay that for a tie down 30 miles away. Good Luck.
 
CT Arrow said:
I can appreciate the pain in the a$$ extra drive to islip and added cost verse just keeping it in farmingdale. However, I think a hangar adds tremendous value and makes a huge difference in keeping the elements off your plane; rain, snow, heat, bird droppings, UV damage, pollutants,,,. These all take their toll on paint, seals,,. Think about the last snow pile we had and you shoveling it off your plane and away from your plane. Add in preheating outside and that sucks!

My arrow was repainted in 2001 and lives in a hangar. The paint looks new and so does the interior all due to living indoors. Preheating in the winter is as easy as plugging in the heater and warming the engine.
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How much is a paint job where you live and what is the difference between a hangar and tie down at your airport?
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
How much is a paint job where you live and what is the difference between a hangar and tie down at your airport?
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$255 per month for a standard Hangar w/ electric, Covered tie down is $90 per month and $75 if not covered.

A paint job will cost you around 10K by the time your done. That is not in consideration of loss of use during the down period while the aircraft is being repainted.

I have heard this argument many times about hangar costs verse paint job. The reality is unforeseen damage due to rain, UV, Pollutants,,,, take their toll on paint, seals, interior,. Yes, I know a few guys who are outside and cover their aircraft with lots of covers. It helps prolong the paint but you can't protect everything. Go look at two identical airplanes, one parked in a Hangar and one outside and tell me which one you would rather own. Its pretty obvious If you can afford a hangar then it is a no-brainer!

Oh, and for the $255, I get to keep another car and other stuff in the hangar. Add up what I would have to pay for that storage alone and $255 is a bargain! YMMV!!
 
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A10k paint job vs 39mos hangar using your figures....or 133mos uncovered. The hangar value is specious.
 
CT Arrow said:
$255 per month for a standard Hangar w/ electric, Covered tie down is $90 per month and $75 if not covered.

A paint job will cost you around 10K by the time your done. That is not in consideration of loss of use during the down period while the aircraft is being repainted.

I have heard this argument many times about hangar costs verse paint job. The reality is unforeseen damage due to rain, UV, Pollutants,,,, take their toll on paint, seals, interior,. Yes, I know a few guys who are outside and cover their aircraft with lots of covers. It helps prolong the paint but you can't protect everything. Go look at two identical airplanes, one parked in a Hangar and one outside and tell me which one you would rather own. Its pretty obvious If you can afford a hangar then it is a no-brainer!

Oh, and for the $255, I get to keep another car and other stuff in the hangar. Add up what I would have to pay for that storage alone and $255 is a bargain! YMMV!!
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And what about when the hangar is $750 a month, the tie down $180-250? Then what do you recommend? Not fly?
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
And what about when the hangar is $750 a month, the tie down $180-250? Then what do you recommend? Not fly?
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Of course not. You just need to buy a more expensive plane. Something that burns Jet A or a big twin. That way the $750/month will seem like pennies compared to what you spend per hour to fly it.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
And what about when the hangar is $750 a month, the tie down $180-250? Then what do you recommend? Not fly?
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Tony, hangar rentals are not for everyone due to many factors; cost, location, politics,,,, I think your losing sight of the posters original question, which was, hangar verse non-hanger. Clearly if the option exists to utilize a hangar, why wouldn't you?

I am fortunate to be based at a private, public access airport owned by a fiscally solvent Company whose product base supports aviation. Hangars are beyond reasonable priced, the grounds are immaculate and we have two excellent shops on field who cater to avionics and aircraft maintenance. Maybe you should move here?
 
Our Austin Texas ownership club rents three hangers at Austin Bergstrom (KAUS) for ~$440/month each. We got the first two hangers by signing the leases on the first day they became available (May 1999), we had to wait 13 years for the third hanger.

We had high hopes that we could get a cheaper hanger when the little dirt strip called Bird's Nest Airport (where I soloed in a J-3 in 1970) morphed into the ultramodern GA airport called Austin Executive (KEDC). It turned out that their hangers (which all went on day 1) were more expensive than KAUS.

The manager at KEDC told me that the price of steel has skyrocketed, and that the days of $200/month hangers are long gone.

Based on our 35 year experience, hangers are worth the money.
 
KFRG uncovered tie-down goes for $175/month and there's a 12-18 month wait.
 
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