First Multi-Engine Lesson

When I went for my MEL checkride, the examiner was looking at my logbook and stopped cold and looked up at me in disbelief and said, "Where the hell did you get dual in a B-25?!" I was about 24 at the time and active with a flying museum. The B-25 pilot was a good friend and CFI. He took good care of me. I got my MEL specifically so I could fly with him in the B-25 on a regular basis.

Congratulations. I've never done anything but ride in cabin of a jet.

JimR
 
tonycondon said:
well i can fly at 2500 and burn the same amount of gas as at FL250! take that! :D
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I can't fly at FL250 and I don't have an air conditioning switch. :(

Yet! :D
 
I have the 2-105 model air conditioner in the planes that I fly... 2 vents - 105 knots!
 
tonycondon said:
depends on the ramp...:)
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I'm talking about the one all the big boys use. :goofy: I really am very appreciative to have the opportunity to fly the CJ3 every now and again. Without my job, it would never be possible. Everyone will have their turn sooner or later. For now, I just get to look like a 17 year old jet pilot in my avatar <G>.
 
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HPNPilot1200 said:
Everyone will have their turn sooner or later. For now, I just get to look like a 17 year old jet pilot in my avatar <G>.
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Maybe not in a CJ3, but we all get our turns doing cool things sooner or later.

Jason, you just got your turn sooner than some of us. :D

Myself excluded in that... I've managed to have some truly amazing experiences already, especially considering that I'm only about a 107 hr pilot and I started flying in September of last year. For that matter, when I was an 11 hour pilot I'd already had some amazing experiences.
 
No, I swear...I'm not trying to pis$ you off, but I do want to post some of the things I learned today flying the jet, mostly CRM-based. I was able to fly out to Nantucket early this morning (5:30am) on one of our Pilatus PC-12's at work so I could fly right seat on one of the CJ3's deadlegging back to Oxford.


I flew with a different captain this time, neat guy. He was quite a hoot and I learned quite a bit from him, especially some unique respect for weather after passing through heavy precip. and moderate to severe turbulence at 10,000 enroute to OXC. That was a little bumpy...was glad to have a five piece harness.
  • When opening an enroute chart, don't open it more than two folds, flip through it and look for the area you're looking for so you don't clutter the cockpit and distract the other pilot or block his field of vision. It's how the pro's do it.
  • Always admit that you don't recall or know how to complete a certain function or operation on the aircraft. It's much safer to do it right the first time by asking for the correct input or response from another crewmember. Even the small things count.
  • If you're cleared direct to a fix/vor/location that wasn't originally on your route or was not the next fix in sequence on your assigned flight plan, let the next controller know when you check in. Good thing to do.
  • When a controller issues a new heading or altitude, move your hand down (or up) to the bug controls and start cranking so the other pilot can start turning/climbing/descending while you adjust and readback the new heading and/or altitude.
  • You have to think really fast when you fly a jet, really fast. 250 knots comes up quick.
Just under two and a half hours of jet time and learning a lot, always learning.

Best,
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
If you're cleared direct to a fix/vor/location that wasn't originally on your route or was not the next fix in sequence on your assigned flight plan, let the next controller know when you check in. Good thing to do.
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If I'm cleared to a fix not in my route, I have a policy of asking for an EFC time. I usually say something like "Roger, direct XYZ. XYZ isn't on our filed/cleared route, can we have an EFC time?"

That clues the controller in that this is something I didn't expect, and that I'm gonna hold there in the event of lost comms until my EFC time. Usually I get a response like "Sorry, Cleared direct XYZ, then direct destination".

Never ever accept a clearance to a fix short of your destination unless you've worked out with the controller what happens next.
 
TMetzinger said:
If I'm cleared to a fix not in my route, I have a policy of asking for an EFC time. I usually say something like "Roger, direct XYZ. XYZ isn't on our filed/cleared route, can we have an EFC time?"

That clues the controller in that this is something I didn't expect, and that I'm gonna hold there in the event of lost comms until my EFC time. Usually I get a response like "Sorry, Cleared direct XYZ, then direct destination".

Never ever accept a clearance to a fix short of your destination unless you've worked out with the controller what happens next.
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Another good point. That happened to us when we requested and were cleared direct CUTMA, which is on the ILS 36 at OXC (6nm outside of SICOR, the non-precision FAF). The controller was blocked by another aircraft on the frequency and we missed the approach clearance, so by the time we got the clearance a few seconds later we had already started to turn right to intercept the localizer since that's the way we had the FMS programmed (expecting to intercept). Had we not caught it early enough in the turn, we technically should have held.

Best,
 
Jason: Sorry I haven't participated more. This is good stuff; hope you're really enjoying it. Seems I left on vacation during a lot of your posts and I just couldn't keep up with a lot of things I would have liked to.

Sounds like you need to be up front in the P-Baron next time we get together.

Best,

Dave
 
Hey, Dave. Thanks for the ride in your beautiful Baron last weekend. What a sweet ride.

My Bonanza should (?) be back in the air by the end of the month, with newly-overhauled engine, OH prop, turbo, accessories, landing gear rod end bushing, etc., etc. "Might as well" sure is an expensive phrase!

Still looking for the right Baron (or twin) swap. I love the TN Bonanza, but for the reasons we discussed . . . well, you know.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Another good point. That happened to us when we requested and were cleared direct CUTMA, which is on the ILS 36 at OXC (6nm outside of SICOR, the non-precision FAF). The controller was blocked by another aircraft on the frequency and we missed the approach clearance, so by the time we got the clearance a few seconds later we had already started to turn right to intercept the localizer since that's the way we had the FMS programmed (expecting to intercept). Had we not caught it early enough in the turn, we technically should have held.

Best,
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Ah, now it's clear that you were cleared to a fix on an approach to your destination. In that case both you and the controller reasonably knew what happens next. I'd thought you'd been cleared to a new fix while still in the enroute phase, or the arrival.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Jason: Sorry I haven't participated more. This is good stuff; hope you're really enjoying it. Seems I left on vacation during a lot of your posts and I just couldn't keep up with a lot of things I would have liked to.

Sounds like you need to be up front in the P-Baron next time we get together.

Best,

Dave
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Certainly appreciate it, Dave. Looking forward to that front seat ride sometime soon.

TMetzinger said:
Ah, now it's clear that you were cleared to a fix on an approach to your destination. In that case both you and the controller reasonably knew what happens next. I'd thought you'd been cleared to a new fix while still in the enroute phase, or the arrival.
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Well that happened earlier in the flight too, when we were cleared direct MVY when our route took us V34 SEY...

Best,
Jason
 
Tom Gresham said:
Hey, Dave. Thanks for the ride in your beautiful Baron last weekend. What a sweet ride.

My Bonanza should (?) be back in the air by the end of the month, with newly-overhauled engine, OH prop, turbo, accessories, landing gear rod end bushing, etc., etc. "Might as well" sure is an expensive phrase!

Still looking for the right Baron (or twin) swap. I love the TN Bonanza, but for the reasons we discussed . . . well, you know.
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My pleasure Tom. Always nice to see you. Hope you decide upon that combination of attributes that is both affordable and meets your mission profile. The single v. twin thing is always difficult for the type missions you fly.

Let me know what you finally decide. I'd be happy to give any comments I can on the Baron if you head that-a-way.

Best,

Dave
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
If you're cleared direct to a fix/vor/location that wasn't originally on your route or was not the next fix in sequence on your assigned flight plan, let the next controller know when you check in. Good thing to do.


Best,
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Not sure I agree with this as a blanket statement. Next time ask your CA what his reference is for doing this. I don't think it's in the AIM.
 
HPNPilot1200 said:
Another good point. That happened to us when we requested and were cleared direct CUTMA, which is on the ILS 36 at OXC (6nm outside of SICOR, the non-precision FAF). The controller was blocked by another aircraft on the frequency and we missed the approach clearance, so by the time we got the clearance a few seconds later we had already started to turn right to intercept the localizer since that's the way we had the FMS programmed (expecting to intercept). Had we not caught it early enough in the turn, we technically should have held.

Best,
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You mean you got CUTMA as a Clearance Limit, and ATC canceled your clearance to OXC? I find that hard to believe.

Assuming you still were cleared to OXC via direct CUTMA, this still is an interesting NORDO situation. Holding at CUTMA doesn't look right. Maybe make the turn down the localizer and hold at the depicted missed hold at CLERA until your ETA. then go on in. What say others?

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0808/05785IL36.PDF
 
Lance F said:
Not sure I agree with this as a blanket statement. Next time ask your CA what his reference is for doing this. I don't think it's in the AIM.
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It's not in the AIM, but it's a good idea to give controllers a heads up when they're busy and the previous controller didn't coordinate per 7110.65S. We were below 10,000 so we didn't touch the real en-route phase of the system which is why I think the left-seater advised to do this. It's not a general, blanket statement that is applicable at all times, but rather at your discretion.

Lance F said:
You mean you got CUTMA as a Clearance Limit, and ATC canceled your clearance to OXC? I find that hard to believe.

Assuming you still were cleared to OXC via direct CUTMA, this still is an interesting NORDO situation. Holding at CUTMA doesn't look right. Maybe make the turn down the localizer and hold at the depicted missed hold at CLERA until your ETA. then go on in. What say others?

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0808/05785IL36.PDF
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No, not as a clearance limit so I take back my last about the hold. The issue is, after CUTMA, where to? Direct destination? Our original clearance went to KEYED then direct destination which is south/east of CUTMA. Approach should have given us instructions after CUTMA earlier than they did, either way.

I haven't run into this scenario before, so I'm interested in exploring the real answer (if there is one). Usually I'll get "proceed direct fix" where fix lies along an airway found in the assigned routing.

Best,
 
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