First flight lesson was exciting. Yeah, I'm hooked.

KeithASanford

KeithASanford

Line Up and Wait
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Dec 26, 2012
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MyTurnToFly
I took my very first flight lesson today in a Piper Warrior. We flew out of KHEF to KCJR. On the way, we practiced basic maneuvers and I did 5 take offs and landings. One take off was "interesting" when a hawk met us at about 200 feet AGL and my instructor banked the aircraft to the right to avoid a bird strike. After that surreal experience, everything else went pretty smoothly. I enjoyed flying the Piper and the manual flaps bar was refreshingly simplified, but I didn't like getting on the ground to check the sumps or the ballet it took to get in the left seat. My view was obscured by the low wing a bit and the sight picture out of the window and seat position was not as upright as the 172, but it didn't bug me not having a door. I have decided to take the rest of my lessons in the 172. Easier entry, better sight picture and I'd rather check 13 sumps standing than any while on the ground. I actually think the best compromise of what I like about the 172 and the Piper Warrior can be found in Piper TriPacer.

I was surprised by a good friend on the ramp as we returned after my lesson. He rented a Cessna 172SP and we flew to Morgantown, West Virginia for lunch. Ali Baba's makes great sambosas and a serious decadent choclava. Our return to Manassas, Va was my first night flight and it was amazing and very quick, thanks to a 15 knot tailwind. Great lesson, great friend with a great surprise trip and a great meal. I told my bride about my day and she was genuinely jealous, especially about the choclava, so I promised her we'll take that trip once I have my ticket and she has her nerve. Yeah, I'm definitely sticking with this flying thing.
 
Greetings and welcome to POA - congrats on catching the aviation bug!
 
Welcome to the board and to your new addiction in the air...it will surely be an exciting journey for you!
 
Welcome! and Glad you enjoyed your first flight!

I did all my private pilot in a Piper Warrior and I absolutely loved it. You might see a lot of debate of high wing vs low wing, but to each their own. I've been flying a Cessna 172 for the most part ever since I got private pilot and I enjoy that too. I enjoy flying both. Its really a matter of availability right now as to why I fly one versus the other.

No matter which aircraft you fly, have fun, and stay safe!
 
Enjoy.

FWIW, an older Cessna 172 has three sumps, not 13. They fly the same, and they are usually cheaper. The only differences are the 13 sumps and a slight difference in engine start procedure.

Fueling is a whole lot more pleasant on a Piper, as is taxiing. The sight picture is better in the pattern (where you really need it during training), but not below the aircraft at altitude.
 
Welcome to general aviation. Prepare to empty the wallet ;) So you'd rather climb to check the fuel level than kneel to check a couple of sump points? Have fun.
 
Welcome to our disease.......:yes:

You might want to rethink the Warrior/ 172 thing though....:wink2:
 
Ah, so you're why the schedule was full at HEF yesterday... :)

Congrats and welcome to PoA!
 
Welcome to the board and sounds like you had a great experience. Time to get serious now! ha
 
Glad you enjoyed it. Yes flying is...indescribable sometimes. So many possibilities...taking your wife to that restaurant or to other places....the views....making new friends.....Aviation is a great life! Welcome!
 
EppyGA said:
So you'd rather climb to check the fuel level than kneel to check a couple of sump points? Have fun.
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I definitely climb better than I kneel :yes:.

MAKG1 said:
Enjoy.

FWIW, an older Cessna 172 has three sumps, not 13. They fly the same, and they are usually cheaper. The only differences are the 13 sumps and a slight difference in engine start procedure.

Fueling is a whole lot more pleasant on a Piper, as is taxiing. The sight picture is better in the pattern (where you really need it during training), but not below the aircraft at altitude.
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You guys make good arguments for the low wing Piper. It's entirely possible that my opinion could have been a bit influenced by flying to MGW in a 10 year old Cessna after taking my lesson in a 40 year old Piper:redface:. I'm not completely giving up on the Warrior, but I figured since I'm training in the winter, I didn't want to have to kneel in snow to check the sumps. The Owner/Chief Flight Instructor I went up with said it would be better if I chose one or the other and stuck with that at least through my Private. I originally chose the Warrior because I was under the impression that there would be less demand. Most of the training I've witnessed at Dulles has been in the 172s. It turns out the Piper's as much if not more in demand. I've also heard that the 172 teaches you more about landing. I'm not sure if that's crosswind landings or landing in general. I'll go up in the Warrior once more and then decide.
 
First, welcome to POA, and congratulations on your first lesson, and welcome to the addiction.

If you don't mind me asking, who are you training with? I live 10 minutes from CJR, but there isn't an established flight school there. I'm considering driving to HEF because one of the big schools there has a plane on their line that I'm really interested in. I plan to meet the CFI who teaches privately from CJR, but I haven't had time yet.

Just wanted to pick your brain on any instructor evaluations you did before you started training. I'm not really familiar with any of the schools at HEF, I've just visited the flashy website of one of the big ones there. Prices seem reasonable, and they also have an operation out of HWY (closer to my house than HEF) if I want to get started in a 172.

Enough rambling, but anything you can share would be appreciated!
 
livitup said:
First, welcome to POA, and congratulations on your first lesson, and welcome to the addiction.

If you don't mind me asking, who are you training with? I live 10 minutes from CJR, but there isn't an established flight school there. I'm considering driving to HEF because one of the big schools there has a plane on their line that I'm really interested in. I plan to meet the CFI who teaches privately from CJR, but I haven't had time yet.

Just wanted to pick your brain on any instructor evaluations you did before you started training. I'm not really familiar with any of the schools at HEF, I've just visited the flashy website of one of the big ones there. Prices seem reasonable, and they also have an operation out of HWY (closer to my house than HEF) if I want to get started in a 172.

Enough rambling, but anything you can share would be appreciated!
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I did some research but not much. I did hear rumors about a school at HWY that had a student that had trained with them like 35 hours and had not soloed yet. :yikes: If it takes me more than 35 hours to solo, I expect the school to tell me that I just don't have what it takes, instead of just taking my money. I sought out a flight school that I believe cares about their reputation and not just my check. I basically decided to go to Dulles Aviation because HEF is a towered airport. I figure I'd learn all of the airspace stuff simultaneously as I learn to fly. I took my discovery flight there and liked the experience. Also, my buddy who I spoke of earlier in this thread got his Private & Instrument there. I looked into the other part 141 school at Dulles because I'm also closer to HWY where they also teach out of, but I was a little freaked out by the accident that took the life of one of their CFIs last year. I was more concerned with the airspace than the safety reputation of the school.

There is also a new part 61 school at HWY that has a 172, a Cherokee 180, a twin of some sort and they're restoring a Cessna 140 for eventual tailwind endorsements. I'm presently not confident that the two CFIs that work there could accommodate my schedule and again, the towered field and great experience with my discovery flight was enough of a convincer.

My first lesson at Dulles was with Tom Adams, who I think is the owner of the school and he was hard on me, which I appreciate, so I'm hoping my assigned CFI, Ben Negussie is as tough. At the very least, my stage checks will be with Tom and from what I've heard, they'll be rigorous. PM me if I can help any further.
 
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KeithASanford said:
I did some research but not much. I did hear rumors about a school at HWY that had a student that had trained with them like 35 hours and had not soloed yet. :yikes: If it takes me more than 35 hours to solo, I expect the school to tell me that I just don't have what it takes, instead of just taking my money. I sought out a flight school that I believe cares about their reputation and not just my check.
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It's unfortunate you'd be willing to hang it up if you don't solo in an arbitrary time frame. There are quite a few people who have taken more than 35 hours to solo, who have had people tell them to quit, and have refused to quit. They are now pilots.

A willingness to help a student through should not be considered a black mark on a school. I think you'd be surprised at the number of things that can occur which delay someone's progress despite the best efforts of all concerned.
 
GauzeGuy said:
It's unfortunate you'd be willing to hang it up if you don't solo in an arbitrary time frame. There are quite a few people who have taken more than 35 hours to solo, who have had people tell them to quit, and have refused to quit. They are now pilots.

A willingness to help a student through should not be considered a black mark on a school. I think you'd be surprised at the number of things that can occur which delay someone's progress despite the best efforts of all concerned.
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The story about the student could've been only conjecture, which is why I don't blame the school. I'm actually giving the school the benefit of the doubt. The "friend of the frustrated parent" who told me the story seemed to think it was more about the CFI milking the lessons than the student having difficulty learning. After being told that he wasn't ready to solo without being given specific instructions on what to work on, he ended up going to another school and soloed after his first lesson. Maybe it was just a difference in teaching styles. :dunno:

35 hours to solo wouldn't stop me from doing this, but I want to be told by a professional if I don't have the aptitude and then I can decide whether or not I will accept what I'm told or work harder to prove the Instructor wrong. My money, my decision.
 
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www.barnstormers.com


I'm a bad, bad person. mmmuuuuuuaaaaahhahahhahhahhahhaaaaa!

Have fun flying, stay safe and fly as often as you can to maintain proficiency.
 
KeithASanford said:
The story about the student could've been only conjecture, which is why I don't blame the school. I'm actually giving the school the benefit of the doubt. The "friend of the frustrated parent" who told me the story seemed to think it was more about the CFI milking the lessons than the student having difficulty learning. After being told that he wasn't ready to solo without being given specific instructions on what to work on, he ended up going to another school and soloed after his first lesson. Maybe it was just a difference in teaching styles. :dunno:
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Absolutely. Things like that can happen.

If a student feel their progress is not reasonable lesson after lesson or if the feedback of the CFI is non-existent or unhelpful, it is always reasonable to get a second opinion. IMHO, a lack of progress doesn't usually mean someone can't learn to fly. That said, if a student goes through CFI after CFI with the same result, then it might be time to figure out another way to spend one's disposable income.
 
Lesson three kicked my butt...and I loved every minute of it. Talk about drinking from a fire hose. I seriously get that analogy.

My CFI used Bernoulli and Newton to teach the science of slow flight and how flaps change the chord line and therefore the balance between lift and drag and how, because of the increased drag, power is used to maintain altitude. He taught how, when you're at the height of a stall, the vertical stabilizer is still flying and that's why your rudders are the key to recovery. After a great briefing, we did slow flight, steep turns, power on and power off stall recovery. Pretty uneventful, except for taking off in a 17mph(gusting to 27) crosswind. It wasn't a direct crosswind(I think it was a heading of 290(?) on runway 33) but it was enough to have the Cherokee 180 dancing on takeoff.
I had the first ever feeling of falling on takeoff. I've never felt that before. I think it was brought on by the fact that I ate a bowl of Raisin Bran for breakfast this time instead of dry toast. Note to self: dairy and turbulence don't mix. I'm glad I had this experience at lesson three instead of later. The climb to the practice area was "colorful".

After we got to the practice area, my stomach settled down and I was able to maneuver the airplane pretty good, though I'm still struggling with how things should look out the window. Slow flight was like controlling a marionette with hands and feet. I found myself flying with trim as opposed to relieving control pressure with trim and my CFI called me on it when we debriefed. He also mentioned that he noticed my struggling with sight pictures and I would eventually recognize what level flight looks like and that I am learning to fly by looking out of the window and confirming with the instruments instead of the other way around. He told me that I'm ahead of the curve and his teaching style is to push the bar just a little out of my reach each time in order to encourage me to strive. I am seriously digging this process. I'm scheduled to fly six days straight next week and I can't wait.

Lessons learned:

1. Steep turns to the left only feel like I'll fall out.

2. Fly the plane all the way to a stop when the wind is high. Even the roll out after landing can be "colorful".

3. One wheel landings in a crosswind are freakish and I can't wait until I can do that by myself.

4. Early on in this process, I know my "in flight" limit to be an hour. I was spent by the time we taxied back to the hangar. Maybe it was the turbulence, or the skim milk sloshing around in my stomach, but I had had enough.

5. The best posture I can take as a flight student is that of a sponge that knows nothing.

Yeah, I was definitely blasted by the fire hose I hear so many people speak of, to which I replied, "Thank you, Sir. May I have another."
 
Very entertaining Keith keep us posted I enjoyed reading your progress.
It's been a while since I went through my private pilot training but your stories bring back some great memories.
 
Thanks for documenting your progress. I loved my first slow flight lesson! We had pretty healthy winds that day, and looking out to my left at a farm below that did not appear to be moving at all was a trip. I think it's analogous to riding a bicycle when you're maneuvering around things at slow speed... You just have to maintain that balance.

I'm new to flying as well. I had my intro flight in July, but put things off, and really didn't get serious about it until December. It's a great experience learning during the winter! Keep us posted.
 
KeithASanford said:
Pretty uneventful, except for taking off in a 17mph(gusting to 27) crosswind. It wasn't a direct crosswind(I think it was a heading of 290(?) on runway 33) but it was enough to have the Cherokee 180 dancing on takeoff.
I had the first ever feeling of falling on takeoff. I've never felt that before. I think it was brought on by the fact that I ate a bowl of Raisin Bran for breakfast this time instead of dry toast. Note to self: dairy and turbulence don't mix. I'm glad I had this experience at lesson three instead of later. The climb to the practice area was "colorful".
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Wow... you went out today? I wasn't scheduled to fly today (I'm going up tomorrow) but I was thinking to myself when I went outside at lunch that I was glad I wasn't flying because the wind was bad enough it scared me.

Lessons learned:

1. Steep turns to the left only feel like I'll fall out.

:yes:

2. Fly the plane all the way to a stop when the wind is high. Even the roll out after landing can be "colorful".

Haven't been there yet...

3. One wheel landings in a crosswind are freakish and I can't wait until I can do that by myself.
:yes:
It was gusty when I went out on Tuesday. My CFI did a one wheel landing and all I could think of was how impossible it seemed to me that I would ever be able to do that. :lol:

6 days next week? I'm jealous!
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb here.

20 percent of the students that start flight training end up getting their certificate. The odds are 1:5 that you will end up being able to take up passengers.

I would have never made it through the oral and checkride if I hadn't already bought an airplane and had a stellar instructor. Someone that I'll never be able to adequately repay.

You'll hit a plateau with your learning. You'll think that you'll never be able to consistently perform a short-field landing. Your mind will turn to mush trying to understand TAF's.

I really, really hope to hear of your continued progress and your eventual checkride success. Just know that it's a lot of hard work and you have to stick with it and make it a part of your life for it to work.
 
Old Geek said:
20 percent of the students that start flight training end up getting their certificate. The odds are 1:5 that you will end up being able to take up passengers.
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Sorry, you hit a pet peeve. It's common to quote statistics like that, but it's really not very helpful. Why? To the target, it is not random. Maybe it is to the instructor (more correctly, though, it's just unknown). But a student pilot has direct control over whether he finishes or not. It doesn't just happen (or not).

It's not appropriate to talk about odds in this context. It IS appropriate to talk about persistence, hard work, and quality of instruction and of learning, as those are the process inputs. Rolling dice has no part in it, so the "odds" are meaningless.
 
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Not so sure you're entitled to call my post inappropriate.
 
I appreciate the reality check. I expect the plateau and frustration and I even expect to struggle with TAFs, but to be honest, that's the small stuff. That's not the stuff that will stop me if anything does.

I know statistically very few acheive the dream of earning a PPL. My dream is a bit different. As much as I'm confident that I will earn my PPL one day, my goal is to fly, as I am doing right now. No desire to work in aviation in any capacity. No real desire to travel as a GA pilot or even fly my family or friends around. This is for me, a dream acheived already.

I am learning to fly for the communion(see my sig) and as corny as it sounds, I'm living my dream. I will be 50 years old on Feb 6 and as I reflect on my past, I've earned this shot at a pursuit I once thought was beyond my reach. Just another hurdle to clear in this great, rich, challenging life of mine. If you knew my story, you'd realize this challenge to become a Pilot hasn't got a chance.

I will definitely keep you posted on my progress.

Old Geek said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb here.

20 percent of the students that start flight training end up getting their certificate. The odds are 1:5 that you will end up being able to take up passengers.

I would have never made it through the oral and checkride if I hadn't already bought an airplane and had a stellar instructor. Someone that I'll never be able to adequately repay.

You'll hit a plateau with your learning. You'll think that you'll never be able to consistently perform a short-field landing. Your mind will turn to mush trying to understand TAF's.

I really, really hope to hear of your continued progress and your eventual checkride success. Just know that it's a lot of hard work and you have to stick with it and make it a part of your life for it to work.
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What an amazing week of flying!
I was on vacation this past week and I was able to train with my CFI four out of the five days. I'm getting better at controlling the Cherokee 180 and I'm developing site pictures for climbing, cruise flight and landing. I'm really digging flying while looking out of the window. I didn't trust the view out of the window at first(weird, right?) because I thought I had to confirm level flight looking at the attitude indicator. My CFI instructed me to trust my eyes to define level flight and then confirm with the instruments. We did power on and power off stall recovery and the Cherokee was so docile at first I couldn't feel the plane break at the top of the stall. I soon learned to "trust my butt" and respond appropriately.

We also did ground maneuvers, turns about a point in a 30 degree bank, which no longer feels too steep. I finally got over the falling sensation I was feeling. We did S turns over railroad tracks and more slow flight. I'm really starting to understand when my instructor says to use "Newton"(more rudder than aileron) to control slow flight and Bernoulli(more aileron than rudder) in climb/cruise flight. We did engine out takeoff scenarios from 50 ft, 250ft and 500ft. We safely tested the theory of the impossible turn and concluded that, even at 500ft agl with an engine out, the Cherokee couldn't get enough runway behind it to turn base and short final and still have room enough to land. We couldn't even make it to the runway in the downwind direction, which is actually more than a 180 degree turn, but we could safely land adjacent to the field.

What I didn't expect was just how fast the time on the downwind leg in the pattern goes. Wow, by the time I turn downwind and get out my landing checklist, I'm already abeam the intended landing spot, 1400 RPMs, flaps 10, turn base, flaps 25 in the turn, KEEP THAT SIGHT PICTURE! Turn final, full flaps in the turn, am I high? Throttle back. Am I low, add power, KEEP THAT SIGHT PICTURE! Level off over the runway in ground effect and pull that nose back, back, back, touch down on the mains and fly the nosewheel to the runway. A lot is going on in a span of about 45 seconds to a minute. The more we did, the better I got. It's going to take more reps and learning that sight picture.

I decided not to trim the plane in the pattern in order to correct my tendency to fly with trim as opposed to flying the plane and releasing the pressure with trim. When I get organized, I'll work trim into my approach. My CFI commended me on being able to evaluate my final approach and make adjustments. Next lesson, weather permitting, short field and soft field take offs and landings. I'm really digging this process. My wife says she's never seen me smile so much.
 
Sounds awesome! I'd like to do the same get out a few days in a row for a few week.
 
Keith,

Just catching up reading the forums and saw your post.

Welcome to the world of flight!! Your enthusiasm is contagious, but as you will find out that spark never dies. I still get that smile every time I leave the runway and climb out.

Good luck with your flight lessons. I like when I hear someone say "be the sponge", soak it all in, ask questions and enjoy the ride. You will hit plateaus, that's a given, we all did. Work through them, it's all part of that learning process.

Looking forward to following your progress!!
 
Also just catching up. The Cherokee 180 is a sweetheart and will tolerate a lot of variation in speeds, etc.

Know in the back of your head that some aircraft aren't quite so forgiving and shoot for a nice steady-state speed and smooth changes and it'll serve well if you ever do a transition to some little hotrod later on.

Sounds like you're having FUN and that's as important as all of it...
 
KeithASanford said:
35 hours to solo wouldn't stop me from doing this, but I want to be told by a professional if I don't have the aptitude .... My money, my decision.
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Welcome to flying. I'm your age and learned to fly about 5-6 years ago. Ignore the time to solo, time to PPL stuff and do it for yourself. You'll get some things extremely fast and struggle with others. I soloed at 20 hours, but held off on purpose for a specific date (3-4-07) othwerwise could've gone sooner. Did the same at PPL (67 hours), but we had serveral goof off flights for things that I wanted to do like tower light gun simulation, flying a 152 with throttle, trim and doors only to short final (simulated complete aileron/elevator jam failure which would never happen), etc.

Old Geek said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb here.

20 percent of the students that start flight training end up getting their certificate. The odds are 1:5 that you will end up being able to take up passengers.
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I hate this statistic. Wish there was one for how many student pilots reading forums and having a mentor fail to complete ... I'll bet 90% that do the above and have friends as pilots complete.
 
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