First class medical after a seizure

M

Monet

Filing Flight Plan
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May 7, 2022
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Thegirlwholived
Hi,

I found some posts on this and was hoping someone could get me in touch with Dr. Bruce. I have been working in the HIMs program as a student pilot for five years as of July. I had a seizure from a head injury in 2017. The FAA had told me I can reapply after year 5 of no seizures and meds free. I was just wondering if anyone has heard of a pilot being reinstated a first class medical after a single seizure episode. I would like to ask Bruce if he is still on this site.
 
Monet said:
Hi,

I found some posts on this and was hoping someone could get me in touch with Dr. Bruce. I have been working in the HIMs program as a student pilot for five years as of July. I had a seizure from a head injury in 2017. The FAA had told me I can reapply after year 5 of no seizures and meds free. I was just wondering if anyone has heard of a pilot being reinstated a first class medical after a single seizure episode. I would like to ask Bruce if he is still on this site.
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@bbchien
 
Monet said:
Hi,

I found some posts on this and was hoping someone could get me in touch with Dr. Bruce. I have been working in the HIMs program as a student pilot for five years as of July. I had a seizure from a head injury in 2017. The FAA had told me I can reapply after year 5 of no seizures and meds free. I was just wondering if anyone has heard of a pilot being reinstated a first class medical after a single seizure episode. I would like to ask Bruce if he is still on this site.
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if you don’t mind me asking, how long after your head injury did the seizure occur? I also had a head injury back in 2019.
 
Ya, I know a couple. Can put you in touch.
 
Monet said:
It was the day of the incident. In 2017. I have not had one since
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So your seizure had a known cause; that's a good thing. John King (of King Schools) had one for unknown causes; it didn't take five years to get a medical.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
So your seizure had a known cause; that's a good thing. John King (of King Schools) had one for unknown causes; it didn't take five years to get a medical.
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....but he got a 2IC medical.
Monet: I just saw this string and have the context now- I think you’re going to be okay.
 
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You’re going to be okay from the single provoked seizure standpoint. Your purpose in the HIMS program might be an obstacle however.
 
NightSkyReader said:
You’re going to be okay from the single provoked seizure standpoint. Your purpose in the HIMS program might be an obstacle however.
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I know many pilots in the airlines in HIMs, why would it be a problem?
 
Psychiatric/behavioral problems that get pilots into HIMS tend to hinder the medical certification process. It may not be a problem for OP and he is probably moving through it just fine, but between a single provoked seizure and any reason at all for being in HIMS, it won’t be the seizure that would hold him back. That’s all I was saying.

Sorry, I just realized you are the OP.
 
NightSkyReader said:
You’re going to be okay from the single provoked seizure standpoint. Your purpose in the HIMS program might be an obstacle however.
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Hello, I am looking into getting my 1st class medical. I had a single seizure when I was 8 years old, but the doctors never found a definitive cause. They think that it was from dehydration and heat exhaustion because it was the middle of July and I hadn’t been drinking any fluids the whole week. I have never had another seizure and it’s been 11 years now. I have also been off medication for 9 years. I have 0 other medical conditions and I am very healthy. Do you think it’s worth it to even get an exam done or will the faa immediately deny me? Thanks
 
rylan004 said:
Hello, I am looking into getting my 1st class medical. I had a single seizure when I was 8 years old, but the doctors never found a definitive cause. They think that it was from dehydration and heat exhaustion because it was the middle of July and I hadn’t been drinking any fluids the whole week. I have never had another seizure and it’s been 11 years now. I have also been off medication for 9 years. I have 0 other medical conditions and I am very healthy. Do you think it’s worth it to even get an exam done or will the faa immediately deny me? Thanks
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Take a look at the current decision matrix; it’s possible for an issuance. I would likely try for a 3rd class initially and only upgrade when required. You’ll want to have a consult with an AME who’s worked one of these cases before and work with your provider to complete the required exams and documentation.

 
TCABM said:
Take a look at the current decision matrix; it’s possible for an issuance. I would likely try for a 3rd class initially and only upgrade when required. You’ll want to have a consult with an AME who’s worked one of these cases before and work with your provider to complete the required exams and documentation.

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I had a consult with one and he seems to think I can get one but it might take time. I am a very healthy person. I have no other medical issues. Realistically what do you think my chances are?
 
rylan004 said:
I had a consult with one and he seems to think I can get one but it might take time. I am a very healthy person. I have no other medical issues. Realistically what do you think my chances are?
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you are almost certainly able to get one. The question is whether you have the guts, stamina and finances to slog through what the faa might require to prove that you are ok
 
Anthem said:
you are almost certainly able to get one. The question is whether you have the guts, stamina and finances to slog through what the faa might require to prove that you are ok
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I will put in whatever it takes to be able to become a professional pilot. It has been my dream for my whole life and I’m willing to fight the faa to get it even if it takes a year.
 
rylan004 said:
even if it takes a year.
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Woah there, The Flash!
Better find yourself a good pair of galoshes, because there's plenty of mud to run through in your future.

Honestly though, best of luck and we wish you success.
 
Baked Potato said:
Woah there, The Flash!
Better find yourself a good pair of galoshes, because there's plenty of mud to run through in your future.

Honestly though, best of luck and we wish you success.
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Do you think it could take a couple years?
 
rylan004 said:
Do you think it could take a couple years?
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In actuality, I hope not. I've just read about some pretty protracted battles that people have had with the FAA.
My interpretation of the rules for your condition is that the doctor will have to defer you, then you will have to submit all documentation that the FAA asks for before you'll get an SI issued. It also looks like you have some pretty pricy tests that you'll have to take to satisfy them. Hopefully that's not an issue for you and they all come back squeaky clean.
 
Baked Potato said:
In actuality, I hope not. I've just read about some pretty protracted battles that people have had with the FAA.
My interpretation of the rules for your condition is that the doctor will have to defer you, then you will have to submit all documentation that the FAA asks for before you'll get an SI issued. It also looks like you have some pretty pricy tests that you'll have to take to satisfy them. Hopefully that's not an issue for you and they all come back squeaky clean.
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I actually have a lot of the tests they require done already. The only thing I’d need is a new eeg.
 
AchillesLastStand said:
Change your approach, ha. You’re not “fighting” anyone. That will not get you far with the feds. You are seeking their approval.
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Well it seems like most people feel like it’s a fight when the faa asks for every single medical record you’ve ever had
 
AchillesLastStand said:
Change your approach, ha. You’re not “fighting” anyone. That will not get you far with the feds. You are seeking their approval.
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This is actually a great comment….

And it is true to a certain extent. People keep thinking it’s a “right”. Um no. The FAA would prefer anyone who isn’t perfectly healthy to just go away. They don’t necessarily want to deal with this and are only dealing with it because they have to. In all honesty - I’m sure they prefer to not have pilots with any mental history in the past, no diabetics, osa issues, drug/alcohol, etc etc.

So the way it’s handled now - is that you have to prove to them beyond their thresholds that you are safe for them to allow you to fly. It’s not what you think (which people seem to think) but what you are able to prove to them.
 
W
Anthem said:
This is actually a great comment….

And it is true to a certain extent. People keep thinking it’s a “right”. Um no. The FAA would prefer anyone who isn’t perfectly healthy to just go away. They don’t necessarily want to deal with this and are only dealing with it because they have to. In all honesty - I’m sure they prefer to not have pilots with any mental history in the past, no diabetics, osa issues, drug/alcohol, etc etc.

So the way it’s handled now - is that you have to prove to them beyond their thresholds that you are safe for them to allow you to fly. It’s not what you think (which people seem to think) but what you are able to prove to them.
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Well that gave me no hope lol
I’m just starting to lose hope I’m trying again
 
rylan004 said:
W

Well that gave me no hope lol
I’m just starting to lose hope I’m trying again
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Im not trying to depress you. I think you should have a fairly clear path.

Im just commenting in general - the FAA prefers to not deal with all the special cases if they have to.
 
I feel like they would be the most likely to look at the special cases now, because of the pilot shortage
 
rylan004 said:
I feel like they would be the most likely to look at the special cases now, because of the pilot shortage
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Why ? the standards arent any lower and the faa couldnt care less whether there was a pilot shortage or excess. . by your reasoning, things would be even tighter if there was an excess of pilots, and thats just not the case. As I said before - there preference is to default on the side of "no" if there is /any/ reason for them to be concerned. . and then its up to you to prove to them that they should allow it.

and honestly there isnt a shortage of pilots. there are a shortage of mid level captains but an excess of FO's. They dont have the spaces to even offer oboarding for all the FO's that are coming in to the queue. The issue isnt there - its that they are lacking captains in the middle areas.
 
rylan004 said:
I actually have a lot of the tests they require done already. The only thing I’d need is a new eeg.
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Within the specified time frames in the AME guide I posted?

Glad your AME ‘thinks’ it can he done. Your primary doc probably doesn’t know what the FAA wants to hear in the notes and current history timeframes, but you want your primary doc to see the guide as well to make sure you get it right the first time.

Your AME will have to defer; FAA will review the info, if they see exactly what they specify is to be provided from a documentation perspective when you submit your AME exam, you’re ahead of the game. Otherwise, you may wait several months until the FAA responds and they will ask for specific information within specific dates, and give you 30 days to submit it or face a denial.

This is where it pays to work with both your Doc and an experienced AME who’s seen this before. You may want to find a Senior AME and interview them to see if they are willing to help you get everything ahead of time and submitted with the deferral.

Unless there’s other stuff you’re hiding, it’s likely you will get the medical.


rylan004 said:
I feel like they would be the most likely to look at the special cases now, because of the pilot shortage
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HAHAHAHAHA. The FAA neither knows of nor cares about what you speak. Their job is to ensure your medical history can be certified according to the laws and regulations they must follow.
 
Anthem said:
Why ? the standards arent any lower and the faa couldnt care less whether there was a pilot shortage or excess. . by your reasoning, things would be even tighter if there was an excess of pilots, and thats just not the case. As I said before - there preference is to default on the side of "no" if there is /any/ reason for them to be concerned. . and then its up to you to prove to them that they should allow it.

and honestly there isnt a shortage of pilots. there are a shortage of mid level captains but an excess of FO's. They dont have the spaces to even offer oboarding for all the FO's that are coming in to the queue. The issue isnt there - it’s that they are lacking captains in the middle areas
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Yea true. I was just saying maybe they’d review more special cases cause they need more pilots. So you think I could probably get my medical if I work with them and provide what they need?
 
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TCABM said:
Within the specified time frames in the AME guide I posted?

Glad your AME ‘thinks’ it can he done. Your primary doc probably doesn’t know what the FAA wants to hear in the notes and current history timeframes, but you want your primary doc to see the guide as well to make sure you get it right the first time.

Your AME will have to defer; FAA will review the info, if they see exactly what they specify is to be provided from a documentation perspective when you submit your AME exam, you’re ahead of the game. Otherwise, you may wait several months until the FAA responds and they will ask for specific information within specific dates, and give you 30 days to submit it or face a denial.

This is where it pays to work with both your Doc and an experienced AME who’s seen this before. You may want to find a Senior AME and interview them to see if they are willing to help you get everything ahead of time and submitted with the deferral.

Unless there’s other stuff you’re hiding, it’s likely you will get the medical.




HAHAHAHAHA. The FAA neither knows of nor cares about what you speak. Their job is to ensure your medical history can be certified according to the laws and regulations they must follow.
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I have no other medical history. I am a very healthy 19 year old. I actually have never had any other medical issue in my life.
 
Dude you’ll get certified. Go update your EEG and have all the records handy as outlined in the matrix. Your AME will defer, records go to the FAA, and they’ll either give you the SI or ask for more records. Give them whatever they want promptly with no back talk. You’ll eventually get the SI. No biggie.

Now go read all the aviation handbooks and get ready for flight training and waste no further time on this thread. :)
 
NightSkyReader said:
Dude you’ll get certified. Go update your EEG and have all the records handy as outlined in the matrix. Your AME will defer, records go to the FAA, and they’ll either give you the SI or ask for more records. Give them whatever they want promptly with no back talk. You’ll eventually get the SI. No biggie.

Now go read all the aviation handbooks and get ready for flight training and waste no further time on this thread. :)
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Do you think I’ll get it even if I don’t have a satisfactory cause of the seizure?
 
rylan004 said:
Do you think I’ll get it even if I don’t have a satisfactory cause of the seizure?
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Rylan, we can give you opinions as to how to approach the FAA, but our opinions mean squat to the FAA. The only way to get sound advice is to take all your test results and present it to a Senior AME for a CONSULTATION.

I do wish you well. I, and the rest of us, are just SGOTI to the FAA. Go get real advice from the professionals.

-Skip
 
rylan004 said:
Do you think I’ll get it even if I don’t have a satisfactory cause of the seizure?
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Yes. That is the definition of an unprovoked seizure, the last category in the AME’s decision matrix that TCABM linked above.
 
rylan004 said:
Hello, I am looking into getting my 1st class medical. I had a single seizure when I was 8 years old, but the doctors never found a definitive cause. They think that it was from dehydration and heat exhaustion because it was the middle of July and I hadn’t been drinking any fluids the whole week. I have never had another seizure and it’s been 11 years now. I have also been off medication for 9 years. I have 0 other medical conditions and I am very healthy. Do you think it’s worth it to even get an exam done or will the faa immediately deny me? Thanks
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Rylan, 10 years (the last 3 off all meds) with substantiated no seizures by observers who would know about this if one happened at NIGHT, current neurologist eval, Current awake-asleep EEG and MRI + old record, should do the job.

B
 
We haven't specifically helped someone with a history of seizures, but we have helped many people with some significant issues get back to flying. We have a few Success Stories on our blog.

And it isn't a fight. The FAA needs to make a risk determination for your safety to fly. They set standards. If you can show you meet the standards then you can fly. If you cannot meet the standards, then you cannot fly.
 
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