First Annual - ELT/Airworthy Question

[poadeleted20]

SBs, really, considering for that plane they range from often unneeded door post repairs to replacement of perfectly good landing gear attachment bolts at >$100 each?

And yet I know quite a few SB's on various planes which really do merit careful consideration. In any event, my point is that nobody should be surprised by a list of 100 SB's the first time they take their plane to annual. And that's a problem with both the owner and the party who did the prepurchase inspection, and it suggests the owner has little knowledge or understanding of the maintenance issues involved in owning a plane.

It is unfortunate that there is no FAA Owner Certificate like they have Pilot, Mechanic, and Instructor certificates -- perhaps some mandatory training prior to purchase would prevent these sorts of problems.

Just kidding -- sort of.

 

[JLowe]

Yep so here's where it ended up. Went over everything and I'm pretty much on board with the pricing the the details. I told them to hold on the elt as I have 90 days to fly and I'm already calling around for used parts... they even gave me a list of some places that should have them.

The prebuy was completed, hence the 4k credit from the agreed upon price. I think as mentioned above that most items are wear items -- the elt and the huge addition of the service bulletins is what stood out to me. The shop explained the same they never expected me to get all of those things fixed, but had to list them.

 

[bnt83]

And yet I know quite a few SB's on various planes which really do merit careful consideration. In any event, my point is that nobody should be surprised by a list of 100 SB's the first time they take their plane to annual. And that's a problem with both the owner and the party who did the prepurchase inspection, and it suggests the owner has little knowledge or understanding of the maintenance issues involved in owning a plane.

It is unfortunate that there is no FAA Owner Certificate like they have Pilot, Mechanic, and Instructor certificates -- perhaps some mandatory training prior to purchase would prevent these sorts of problems.

Just kidding -- sort of.

Adding to Ron's, it goes both ways. There are many AD's that are very trivial and even petty and the same goes with SB's. But there are also SB's that never made it to an AD and yet Edit: seem like are a real safety issue.

The turbine world gets bizzar and the number of "MANDETRORY" (per the OEM) gets crazy due to so many different vendors building parts for them.

 

[JLowe]

And yet I know quite a few SB's on various planes which really do merit careful consideration. In any event, my point is that nobody should be surprised by a list of 100 SB's the first time they take their plane to annual. And that's a problem with both the owner and the party who did the prepurchase inspection, and it suggests the owner has little knowledge or understanding of the maintenance issues involved in owning a plane.

It is unfortunate that there is no FAA Owner Certificate like they have Pilot, Mechanic, and Instructor certificates -- perhaps some mandatory training prior to purchase would prevent these sorts of problems.

Just kidding -- sort of.

What I think would be unfortunate is not asking questions about things and going into this with as much information as possible. Seems to me rather than insulting my understanding of maintenance you should be happy that i'm trying to improve.

Anyways, we're all squared away now on the fixes and it won't be too bad. I knew going in that the first annual would be high and I was due to learn some things that I didn't know.

 

[Skylane81E]

You are learning and that is good,

But really I cannot recommend John Efinger too highly.

Hell if I am every in the area with my plane again I plan to drop it off for him to have a look at.

 

[bnt83]

What I think would be unfortunate is not asking questions about things and going into this with as much information as possible. Seems to me rather than insulting my understanding of maintenance you should be happy that i'm trying to improve.

Anyways, we're all squared away now on the fixes and it won't be too bad. I knew going in that the first annual would be high and I was due to learn some things that I didn't know.

After going through the hassle of the 406 ELT and realizing that the chance of it surving the accident and working are still about the same as the old 121.50 ELT, I wouldn't go the 406 route for as long as possible.


For example: The 406 ELT antenna has a requirement to be mounted on the airplane within X# of degrees of vertical to "ensure preformance to TSO specification". How many airplanes crash and break the antenna off let alone with the antenna in a vertical position? It's laughable IMHO.

I'd rather hold a 406 personal beacon than spend the $ on an aircraft 406 ELT.

 

[poadeleted20]

What I think would be unfortunate is not asking questions about things and going into this with as much information as possible. Seems to me rather than insulting my understanding of maintenance you should be happy that i'm trying to improve.

I'm sorry you took it that way. You asked for comments, and I made the comment that it appeared you were not well-prepared when you bought the plane, and whoever did the pre-buy didn't help you much in that regard. You aren't the only one in this boat, and yes, I commend you for trying to better educate yourself on aircraft ownership. It is, however, regrettable that so many pilots jump into ownership without adequate research into all the maintenance issues and then get their wallets unexpectedly drained due to the surprises which better knowledge might have prevented.

AOPA has a number of "pilot mentorship" programs where they pair Student Pilots with experienced pilots to help them work through flight training. Maybe they need to start an "owner mentorship" program to help prospective owners avoid the surprises Jon encountered, because there is little in Private Pilot training to teach you how to buy and own a plane, only to fly it.

 

[JLowe]

You are learning and that is good,

But really I cannot recommend John Efinger too highly.

Hell if I am every in the area with my plane again I plan to drop it off for him to have a look at.

Yep, I promise to go see him next year. He has been highly recommended. I wasn't able to reach someone the time that I called, but I should've kept hassling or just flown over there.

Agreed with the talk of the 406 elt. I've already got one price for a used one of $525. I'll keep shopping but that cost but that price already saves 2k. I am hesitant to install the 406 because it sucks for the only gps in the plane to be in the elt, that i will likely never use.

 

[JLowe]

... and I spoke to soon. I found an ELT on the field for $75. Its battery expired last month. I'll grab this at lunch and drop it off at the shop. Crisis averted!

 

[JLowe]

I'm sorry you took it that way.

Thanks that is fair. I agree. I did read a lot and knew what to expect to a point. I dont think you can learn everything from reading -- as even in the first 2 months of ownership I learned 2x as much as I did during training easily.

 

[bnt83]

... and I spoke to soon. I found an ELT on the field for $75. Its battery expired last month. I'll grab this at lunch and drop it off at the shop. Crisis averted!

Good deal.


A servicable 121.50 ELT shouldn't be hard to find or expensive, but the same part # you have could be difficult to locate...

 

[Fearless Tower]

They quoted 999 on the device a 406 elt, and 16 hours to install it -- total 2358. I know aircraft spruce has one in the 599 range, so no way I'm paying those prices..

While I can't speak specifically on the current prices for 406 ELTs, just a general word of caution when it comes to buying your own cheaper parts from Spruce or any other vendor. You need to keep in mind that Spruce and many others sell aircraft parts for both EABs and Certified airplanes. Alot of the parts they sell have no PMA or other FAA approval to put in a Certified airplane like what you have. Those parts are often MUCH cheaper than the same part sold that meets the FAA requirement for installation in your airplane.

So, when the shop quotes you $500 for a replacement part and you find what appears to be the same thing at Spruce for $50, you need to ask about the paperwork that comes with that $50 part before you whip out the plastic.

Nothing wrong with purchasing your own parts for the shop to install (I personally recommend it), but just keep in mind that you need to do the research.

 

[JLowe]

Nothing wrong with purchasing your own parts for the shop to install (I personally recommend it), but just keep in mind that you need to do the research.

Excellent advice thanks. After looking back through the prices it seems like that didn't include the harness and/or antenna. The price with those were about 1000 so that was in line with the shop costs.

 

[poadeleted20]

Thanks that is fair. I agree. I did read a lot and knew what to expect to a point. I dont think you can learn everything from reading -- as even in the first 2 months of ownership I learned 2x as much as I did during training easily.

I wish the FAA could make that statement alone part of the testable material required for initial pilot certification, along with the cost estimates you got on making all the surprises on your plane right.

 

[greghughes]

Nothing wrong with purchasing your own parts for the shop to install (I personally recommend it), but just keep in mind that you need to do the research.

I had one shop tell me their policy, though: If I bring them the part, they won't guarantee it and if it breaks while they are working with it, it's my problem. If they buy it and I pay them, there's a 5-10% markup, sure, but they also stand behind it, even if the manufacturer/source they got it from won't.

Know the full story, and exactly what you're buying ahead of time. Those parts may cost a lot for what we're getting, but I've had my share of bad/failed parts over the past few years.

 

[Dan Thomas]

the fuel staining is on top of the wing near the fuel cap. So I think the consensus was there is a problem with the 'filler port'

There's a gasket in there that is probably shot.

Dan

 

[Dan Thomas]

I'm pretty sure this is written up wrong. Cessna goofed up and installed switches unable to carry the load of the stock incandecent landing & taxi lights bulbs so they have had several reports of the switches overheating and releasing smoke in the cockpit in some airplanes. The best fix is not to replace the switch every 36 months or whatever the "requirement" is (which is an SB and not an AD) but to replace incandescent bulbs that draw 20+ amps with LED bulbs that draw much less.

The switch most often fails because the push-on wire terminals develop oxidation, which causes resistance, which causes heat, which accelerates the oxidation, which creates more heat, which melts the switch.

The switch is cheap. Getting the old one out is a pain. The new one goes in easily. And then install that LED landing light and save the whole system a lot of heat.

Dan