Fire tanker mishap

ejensen

ejensen

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Gone West
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Feb 23, 2005
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Fort Collins, CO
Display Name
Display name:
Eric Jensen
Got this at work this week:

ISHAP DATE: August 23, 2005
TIME: Approximately 1412 Local Time
AGENCY: Bureau of Land Management
LOCATION: Approximately 12 miles NE of Elko, NV (N 41° 01.274' W 115°
45.166' at an elevation of 7,062 ft MSL)
POINT OF CONTACT:
AIRCRAFT TYPE: Dromader M18T, N7077N (also known as Tanker 426)
MISSION: Fire Suppression (Redardant Drop)
NUMBER ONBOARD: One
INJURIES: Minor - pilot twisted right ankle.
NUMBER OF FATALITIES: None
COMMENTS: Tanker 426 was conducting retardant drops in support of the
Sherman Fire, located approximately 12 miles NE of Elko, NV. On the 7th
drop of the day, Tanker 426 approached a ridge line at the 7,300' level and
set up to make a downwind and downhill drop, which was intended to tie onto
an earlier drop. Tanker 426 released the retardant load crossing the far
ridge line shown in photo 001 and attempted to establish a positive rate of
climb while maintaining airspeed. However, the pilot determined that a
positive rate of climb was not possible and elected to land on a ridge line
as shown in photos.
 
RotaryWingBob said:
Better a broken airplane than a broken pilot! Sounds like he may have done the right thing...
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He probably was too low but he looks like he made the right decision to 'land' it rather than stall.
 
ejensen said:
He probably was too low but he looks like he made the right decision to 'land' it rather than stall.
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If I read it correctly, he dropped on the upwind side (fire spreading downwind and uphill) and got caught in the downdraft on the downwind side of the ridge. Good Aeronautical Decisionmaking, not sure he had a turnback option at ridge's crest.... only he will ever know.
 
ejensen said:
Got this at work this week:

ISHAP DATE: August 23, 2005
TIME: Approximately 1412 Local Time
AGENCY: Bureau of Land Management
LOCATION: Approximately 12 miles NE of Elko, NV (N 41° 01.274' W 115°
45.166' at an elevation of 7,062 ft MSL)
POINT OF CONTACT:
AIRCRAFT TYPE: Dromader M18T, N7077N (also known as Tanker 426)
MISSION: Fire Suppression (Redardant Drop)
NUMBER ONBOARD: One
INJURIES: Minor - pilot twisted right ankle.
NUMBER OF FATALITIES: None
COMMENTS: Tanker 426 was conducting retardant drops in support of the
Sherman Fire, located approximately 12 miles NE of Elko, NV. On the 7th
drop of the day, Tanker 426 approached a ridge line at the 7,300' level and
set up to make a downwind and downhill drop, which was intended to tie onto
an earlier drop. Tanker 426 released the retardant load crossing the far
ridge line shown in photo 001 and attempted to establish a positive rate of
climb while maintaining airspeed. However, the pilot determined that a
positive rate of climb was not possible and elected to land on a ridge line
as shown in photos.
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Must have been one hellofa downdraft if an empty Dromader couldn't maintain enough climb in open country like that to escape...
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Must have been one hellofa downdraft if an empty Dromader couldn't maintain enough climb in open country like that to escape...
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7000 msl means 75% power is max available....not only that, you know there is a powerful fire related updraft on the other side (though just speculation). :-(
 
bbchien said:
7000 msl means 75% power is max available....not only that, you know there is a powerful fire related updraft on the other side (though just speculation). :-(
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Also, the high DA increase as one flys closer to the hot spots can bring down an aircraft even while just cruising, I've heard fire spotters say.
 
Not to trivialize the event or change the subject. But man, what an ugly airplane!

Hunter
 
Handsfield said:
Not to trivialize the event or change the subject. But man, what an ugly airplane!

Hunter
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Beautiful to the pilot who managed a walk-away....
 
Handsfield said:
Not to trivialize the event or change the subject. But man, what an ugly airplane!

Hunter
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That's what you get when you design an aircraft with one job in mind..

we have this tank, how do we make it fly.

WEll, we put a motor on the front, a tail on the back, and wings on it too.
 
Look at the photos closely and you'll see the swath of red fire retardant passing off into the distance just to the unburned side of the fireline. I wonder of that is the ridge he was dropping on.
 
Keith Lane said:
Look at the photos closely and you'll see the swath of red fire retardant passing off into the distance just to the unburned side of the fireline. I wonder of that is the ridge he was dropping on.
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That red line coming down the big ridge is formed by multiple drops. He was coming downhill toward the camera from that big ridge to extend the line. They have to get pretty low to get that tight of a line. There was an intermediate ridge he didn't feel he could clear when he put it down. Might have been a down draft or might have mis-judged the height needed for pullout.
 
NC19143 said:
That's what you get when you design an aircraft with one job in mind..

we have this tank, how do we make it fly.

WEll, we put a motor on the front, a tail on the back, and wings on it too.
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Great description Tom! That's exactly what they are. There is barely enough space to haul a change of clothes.
 
ejensen said:
Great description Tom! That's exactly what they are. There is barely enough space to haul a change of clothes.
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It looks like a Pawnee.
 
ejensen said:
Buried in the report: Dromader M18T
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I know its a Dromader, I was just commenting that it looked similar to a Pawnee. Definetly not a Mooney. :)
 
Anthony said:
I know its a Dromader, I was just commenting that it looked similar to a Pawnee. Definetly not a Mooney. :)
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Got ya. Yeah, they do look similar. The largest is the Air Tractor (800 gals), looks about the same.
 
ejensen said:
Got ya. Yeah, they do look similar. The largest is the Air Tractor (800 gals), looks about the same.
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Nope " turbine agtractor"
 
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ejensen said:
Not quite sure what your 'Nope' is refering too. But Air Tractor has the biggest SEAT made today:

http://www.airtractor.com/
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WoW learn some thing every day,, what I thought was an AG tractor is in fact a AIRtractor, or is it?

The AGtractor is Cessna, same thing?

Or

the aircraft that I took pictures of really a AIRtractor? not an AGtractor?
 
NC19143 said:
WoW learn some thing every day,, what I thought was an AG tractor is in fact a AIRtractor, or is it?

The AGtractor is Cessna, same thing?

Or

the aircraft that I took pictures of really a AIRtractor? not an AGtractor?
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Your picture sure looks like an Air Tractor to me maybe the smaller 402. I'm no expert but I'm not familiar with an AG Tractor. AG Cat, Piper Pawnee and Brave, Dromader, Thrush, and Cessna had an AG Wagon series.
 
Handsfield said:
Not to trivialize the event or change the subject. But man, what an ugly airplane!

Hunter
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I always thought the same thing, it just looks like it may start saying something evil to you if you get too close.
 
I don't know why, but flying an 802 doing fire support, well, just seems like a damn cool job.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Must have been one hellofa downdraft if an empty Dromader couldn't maintain enough climb in open country like that to escape...
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Yeah, especially a PT-6 powered one. Thing is, when working fires, you get them, especially around steep terrain. When fires get big enough they set up their own weather systems sometimes sprouting tornados. It gets ugly and bumpy working fires. If I was goin downhill, downwind heading into a gully transitioning into an up slope, I would have done a chandel type turn thru 90 direct on dump during the inertial exchange and climbed out more parrallel to the ridges. Climbing over a ridge down wind & down low is asking for trouble because you've got a rotor current right in front of you and you are at a low energy. That spells potential for getting driven into the ground.
 
astanley said:
I don't know why, but flying an 802 doing fire support, well, just seems like a damn cool job.
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It's ok, nothing spectacular, but it pays ok. Spend most of the contract season sitting around on 15 minute standby. There are days you wonder if you should have spent the time/money on an MBA (although due to quality Distance courses, you get to do that during standby).
 
I just finished Fire Flight, by John Nance. While fiction, it was an interesting and thought-provoking novel.
 
ejensen said:
Great description Tom! That's exactly what they are. There is barely enough space to haul a change of clothes.
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Actually, the Drom is available with a loader seat behind the pilot.
 
Handsfield said:
Not to trivialize the event or change the subject. But man, what an ugly airplane!

Hunter
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The Drom? With the turbine, it looks wonky, but with the radial I think it looks good, even better with the speed ring on the engine.
BTW, it's a big airplane, I could put a 4-6 person cabin where the hopper is. It's a money making airplane with the radial.
 
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