Fire in the cockpit

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

Touchdown! Greaser!
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AOPA Air Safety released this "Real Pilot Story" today, about a CFI who experienced an in-flight electrical fire near Tulsa late last year:

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/pilotstories/fireinthecockpit/fireinthecockpit.cfm

Makes you think about "getting down NOW" as a priority. He was relatively low when he started his emergency landing, having little altitude he needed to lose, yet suffered some awful burns. Up high? Don't delay the decision to land off field as needed.

Here's an interesting AvWeb video from a recent IFR article about how you might do this if you were IMC.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exc...e_EmergencyDescentOnInstruments_204832-1.html

Final thought: When's the last time you practiced emergency descents?
 
Good case in why shorts and flip flops might not be the best flying attire.....

I saw that one this morning....what suprised me was how an electrical fire on a hydraulic pump could lead to that.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
AOPA Air Safety released this "Real Pilot Story" today, about a CFI who experienced an in-flight electrical fire near Tulsa late last year:

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/pilotstories/fireinthecockpit/fireinthecockpit.cfm

Makes you think about "getting down NOW" as a priority. He was relatively low when he started his emergency landing, having little altitude he needed to lose, yet suffered some awful burns. Up high? Don't delay the decision to land off field as needed.

Here's an interesting AvWeb video from a recent IFR article about how you might do this if you were IMC.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exc...e_EmergencyDescentOnInstruments_204832-1.html

Final thought: When's the last time you practiced emergency descents?
Click to expand...

The video says it only took 45 seconds to land and he still got 2nd and 3rd degree burns and a back injury he his still dealing with.

Fearless Tower said:
Good case in why shorts and flip flops might not be the best flying attire.....
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Very good point. Someone here posted a video ( bout and hour long) of an AF Officer talking about his crash after take off and how to best protect yourself. He was badly burned and had dozens of surgeries. He said he would not fly after that with out boots and gloves and Nomex. I began to think about when I fly the Cherokee. In the winter I try not to fly with synthetics. Wool keeps ya warm.

In the summer A cherokee cabin in the Northeast can get sweltering hot. I can't imagine what it would be like in the south.......oh yeah I can I was at Gastons:rolleyes:. Seriously what can a GA pilot wear in the summer, where he won't loose 25lbs sweating? My answer was on my last flight to wear an old pair of cotton kakhis that were pretty light and a cotton T-Shirt which ain't no protection against fire. My sneakers are synthetic! Gloves for a GA pilot in the summer? Thats not practical.

So really what can a GA pilot due in the summer in 90+F temps to avoid burns heaven forbid a fire pre or post crash?:dunno:
 
Not criticising his actions at all here, but knowing what we know after the fact, is it possible that the fire would have been somewhat less if he had shut the fuel valve off?

The hydraulic pump for the 172RG is located behing the firewall between the pilot/co-pilot rudder pedals which is probably pretty darn close the the fuel line leading forward from the fuel selector.

Might be something to think about.

Definitely a good reason to think about this stuff and KNOW your aircraft and its systems.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Not criticising his actions at all here, but knowing what we know after the fact, is it possible that the fire would have been somewhat less if he had shut the fuel valve off?

The hydraulic pump for the 172RG is located behing the firewall between the pilot/co-pilot rudder pedals which is probably pretty darn close the the fuel line leading forward from the fuel selector.

Might be something to think about.

Definitely a good reason to think about this stuff and KNOW your aircraft and its systems.
Click to expand...

I don't know that he didn't or that the fuel fed the fire inflight but to your point, it seems like something an extinguisher could have at least helped with if not to put it out then to retard the fire even just a little.
 
One of the first training films we got in aircrew training in the Navy was from a fire/burn survivor - I believe he was Navy - who received horrendous burns.

That film popped into my head every time I thought about not wearing my gloves, or rolling up my flight suit sleeves, or zipping it down too far, or wearing a cotton t-shirt under it.

I still think about it when I fly... no flight suits now, but now edit NO shorts and flip flops. Short sleeve cotton shirts still make me shudder, but I wear them.

One think I push back on is the normal starting sequence in most all checklists that call for seat belts fastened before start. Navy checklist (at least for my airplane) was seat belts and shoulder harnesses fastened before taxi AFTER START AND NO FIRE. I still adhere to that.

more edits - corrected typos - holy monkey, looks like I typed this AFTER happy hour, not before! :)
 
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Watched the video....just added the halon fire extinguisher to the cockpit. I've put if off way to long.....

MODEL A344T - Halon 1211

Typical use: Cockpit/CabinH3R's smallest extinguisher with a gauge, the A344T is similar in size, but heavier than the Halon blend model RT A600. Recommended for a 1-4 person aircraft, including the pilot.
A344Tlarge.jpg
 
GMascelli said:
Watched the video....just added the halon fire extinguisher to the cockpit. I've put if off way to long.....

MODEL A344T - Halon 1211

Typical use: Cockpit/CabinH3R's smallest extinguisher with a gauge, the A344T is similar in size, but heavier than the Halon blend model RT A600. Recommended for a 1-4 person aircraft, including the pilot.
A344Tlarge.jpg
Click to expand...
Just adding it isn''t enough. Make sure you know how to use it and make checking its status part of your cockpit preflight. Green is good. Anything else and you should replace it.
Definitely no synthetics. Usually jeans and boots. From the safety brief, remember his ankles were burning. Leather shoes are better than rubber. Boots are better than shoes.
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Final thought: When's the last time you practiced emergency descents?
Click to expand...

Anytime I fly and am given a slam dunk approach... which is often. ;)

Seriously, being comfortable with an emergency descent is important, and knowing the proper configuration to do it best.

AdamZ said:
So really what can a GA pilot due in the summer in 90+F temps to avoid burns heaven forbid a fire pre or post crash?:dunno:
Click to expand...

They make flight suits that are fire proof. The people who fly the LifeFlight helicopters (which I don't know if they're air conditioned or not) have to wear those. I have one in my closet. But no, I don't wear it.
 
Wow! There isn't much left!

I read an article somewhere about emergency descents when you need to GET DOWN NOW, and they mentioned not to be afraid of a really steep turn. The 70-80 degree bank kind. Banked that much, without trying to hold altitude shouldnt increase stall/load factor TOO much, and it'll let you lose altitude really quick, was their logic. If I remember it right.
 
AdamZ said:
The video says it only took 45 seconds to land and he still got 2nd and 3rd degree burns and a back injury he his still dealing with.
Click to expand...

AdamZ said:
I don't know that he didn't or that the fuel fed the fire inflight but to your point, it seems like something an extinguisher could have at least helped with if not to put it out then to retard the fire even just a little.
Click to expand...
Is 45 seconds enough time to unlatch and effectively discharge the fire extinguisher, retain control of the airplane, and land? Maybe the extinguisher is a task for the copilot/PNF or even passenger. We do brief passengers on the use of the extinguisher, right? (reminder to self of things to add to briefing.)
 
ajstoner21 said:
Wow! There isn't much left!

I read an article somewhere about emergency descents when you need to GET DOWN NOW, and they mentioned not to be afraid of a really steep turn. The 70-80 degree bank kind. Banked that much, without trying to hold altitude shouldnt increase stall/load factor TOO much, and it'll let you lose altitude really quick, was their logic. If I remember it right.
Click to expand...

You do remember right. Watch the IFR demonstration video in the first post for more details.
 
gprellwitz said:
Is 45 seconds enough time to unlatch and effectively discharge the fire extinguisher, retain control of the airplane, and land? Maybe the extinguisher is a task for the copilot/PNF or even passenger. We do brief passengers on the use of the extinguisher, right? (reminder to self of things to add to briefing.)
Click to expand...

Totally agree. I always brief passengers on how to remove the fire extinguisher from its mount between the seats, and actually have them DO IT while we're on the ground. It's a pain to put back in place, but there are TWO latches you need to release in the Cessna 172S, and I want them to know how to do it "by feel"--with smoke in the cockpit, you might not be able to see what you're doing. We look down there, I explain how to do it, then I have them reach down with there, without looking, with their left hand, flip the two latches and pull it out by the nozzle handle. I also instruct them that if I ask them to get it out and be ready to use it, or if they feel it might be needed, to go ahead and do so, but to please NOT discharge it unless I ask them to.
 
ajstoner21 said:
I didn't realize that was the same article! That IFR article was the one I had seen, Thanks for posting this link!
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You're welcome! Good discussion here. I agree with some of the comments about fire-proof clothing... it's tough to do, when you fly in hot, non-air-conditioned aircraft... even though you know you should, "just in case".

Kind of like paying large insurance premiums. It's only after you need it that you're glad you did.
 
I'm considering a trip to buy a fire extinguisher tonight.. A friend and I are going on a long trip tomorrow out to the east coast and back. Out on saturday and back on sunday. its a 1979 Cessna 172N, with no fire extinguisher. So, After reading this, i think that jerk Mr. Murphy might try to have his fun.....
 
Fearless Tower said:
Not criticising his actions at all here, but knowing what we know after the fact, is it possible that the fire would have been somewhat less if he had shut the fuel valve off?

The hydraulic pump for the 172RG is located behing the firewall between the pilot/co-pilot rudder pedals which is probably pretty darn close the the fuel line leading forward from the fuel selector.

Might be something to think about.

Definitely a good reason to think about this stuff and KNOW your aircraft and its systems.
Click to expand...


Ive replaced a number of these landing gear hydraulic pumps on the 172RG's and I cant see how a fire could get going that quick. Not much around the top part of the pump where the terminal is located, all the main fuel lines are under the floor panels except for the small primer lines. Something had to have laid against the terminal while the pump was engaged, and most of the old circuit breakers in these planes wont work anymore to protect it.

Though I cant understand why a someone would install it without the terminal cover installed either.
 
Bought one to put in the plane! At least I have a less likely chance of burning to death.
 
ajstoner21 said:
Bought one to put in the plane! At least I have a less likely chance of burning to death.
Click to expand...

Excellent. How will you secure it? Is this in a rental?

On the Beech forums, someone said they wrapped the HOOK side of sticky velcro all the way around the tank in two or three places, and then affixed it to the carpet directly in front of the pilot's seat, with the handle positioned forward for "anti-roll". Said it's never budged, not even in strong turbulence, but he can reach down and rriiiiiIIIIIPPP it off the floor if it's needed. Seemed like an easy solution to "at hand but not loose" to me.
 
Being hit in the head by a flying fire extinguisher would certainly put a damper on one's day.
 
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