Financial question for student pilot

bmacadoozle

bmacadoozle

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bmacadoozle
I plan on starting lessons in early June, by which point I will have around $5,000 saved up for lessons. Is this sufficient to start with? Also I have two jobs so I'll keep making $200/wk while using the initial $5,000

Estimated Cost Breakdown:
Written: $150
Medical: $150
Rental Insurance: $325 for the year
Ground School: Got free copy of Sporty's courses but will add $100 just in case
CFI Hourly: $52 x30 (From your example) = $1560
Airplane Hourly: $140 x 50 = $7,000
Checkride: $500
Sales Tax 6%: $587

with these costs, it comes to $10,372
 
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I think it will get you started, I would worry more about time and consistency. You will go through $5000 fast if you go up several times a week. I paid as I went, so I did not have a lump sum to start with, it is a good idea.
 
It might be enough to start but it’s not enough to finish.

Minimum number of hours for a PPL is 40. If you pay $150 per hour for instructor and plane (and that’s likely a low number) that would be $6000. Plus books, computer, headset, test fees, examiner fees, renter’s insurance, etc., will probably be about another $1k.

But very few people finish in 40 hours. 60 hours would be more reasonable. Brings the total closer to $10,000.

How do you plan to pay for flying after getting your license? Or will you just call it quits after becoming licensed?
 
Half Fast said:
It might be enough to start but it’s not enough to finish.

Minimum number of hours for a PPL is 40. If you pay $150 per hour for instructor and plane (and that’s likely a low number) that would be $6000. Plus books, computer, headset, test fees, examiner fees, renter’s insurance, etc., will probably be about another $1k.

But very few people finish in 40 hours. 60 hours would be more reasonable. Brings the total closer to $10,000.

How do you plan to pay for flying after getting your license? Or will you just call it quits after becoming licensed?
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Yeah I know, the 5k is just what I'm using in the beginning and during the time I use that money I will be working every day so after the initial 5k is gone I'll have another 5k
not calling it quits after ppl, gonna fly probably once a week to keep sharp then after high school gonna get my instrument and go from there
 
jetedrick said:
I think it will get you started, I would worry more about time and consistency. You will go through $5000 fast if you go up several times a week. I paid as I went, so I did not have a lump sum to start with, it is a good idea.
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I'm going up once a week, many people say this is not a good idea but I made a plan with my CFI and he's onboard with it
 
Have you estimated your overall costs? Be aware that the 40 hr minimum is just that - very few get to checkride at min hours.
How often will you be able to fly? Frequency really is important to remember/understand/and retain lesson. There's also the concept of muscle memory.

REQUEST TO ALL: Please don't start posting/gloating/comiserating about your hours to checkride...there are enough posts on POA about that. This thread is to help the OP with a budget.

National average to checkride is 60 hours or so (I haven't looked at the lastest statistics)
1) What is the aircraft hourly rate? AHR * $60. For this discussion, assume $125/hr (really depends where you live and what the going rate is).
So that's 125 * 60 = $7500.
2) What is the CFI hourly rate? 20 hrs are minimums - what is your confidence level you'll only need the CFI for 20 hrs? For this discussion, make it 30 hrs and the CFI charges $35/hr or $1050
3) Written exam is $150 or so

So far, expenses are $8700.
$200/wk might be one, maybe 2 hrs of aircraft rental a week

4) What books and other material will you need?
5) What's the cost of the Private checkride? I've seen prices from $300 and up.
6) Will you buy your own headset or ???

Yes, $5000 is a good start but understand you'll probably need more before you pass the checkride.
 
murphey said:
Have you estimated your overall costs? Be aware that the 40 hr minimum is just that - very few get to checkride at min hours.
How often will you be able to fly? Frequency really is important to remember/understand/and retain lesson. There's also the concept of muscle memory.

REQUEST TO ALL: Please don't start posting/gloating/comiserating about your hours to checkride...there are enough posts on POA about that. This thread is to help the OP with a budget.

National average to checkride is 60 hours or so (I haven't looked at the lastest statistics)
1) What is the aircraft hourly rate? AHR * $60. For this discussion, assume $125/hr (really depends where you live and what the going rate is).
So that's 125 * 60 = $7500.
2) What is the CFI hourly rate? 20 hrs are minimums - what is your confidence level you'll only need the CFI for 20 hrs? For this discussion, make it 30 hrs and the CFI charges $35/hr or $1050
3) Written exam is $150 or so

So far, expenses are $8700.
$200/wk might be one, maybe 2 hrs of aircraft rental a week

4) What books and other material will you need?
5) What's the cost of the Private checkride? I've seen prices from $300 and up.
6) Will you buy your own headset or ???

Yes, $5000 is a good start but understand you'll probably need more before you pass the checkride.
Click to expand...
the 5k is just what I'm using in the beginning and during the time I use that money I will be working every day so after the initial 5k is gone I'll have another 5k.

Written: $150
Medical: $150
Rental Insurance: $325 for the year
Ground School: Got free copy of Sporty's courses but will add $100 just in case
CFI Hourly: $52 x30 (From your example) = $1560
Airplane Hourly: $140 x 50 = $7,000
Checkride: $500
Sales Tax 6%: $587

with these costs, it comes to $10,372
 
$10k is a good estimate. But expect it to be higher and budget a cushion. You don’t want to be down to your last few dollars and still be a few lessons shy of a checkride. You’ll end up worrying about money and then try to rush things at the end.
 
Some thoughts...

*It will cost more and take longer than you expect. If you can guarantee nothing else will come up that requires that $5000 and that you can put your entire paycheck into it every week, it probably can be done. It will be tight towards the end, as you will be withdrawing faster than you can replenish. I started with about $6500 set aside for flight lessons, with my second paycheck of the month (~$700) being entirely dedicated to training. I've spent about that much to get almost to the checkride, but it's been spread out over almost a year at this point so I'm not feeling the squeeze that would happen with a faster training rate as I've been able to replenish quite a bit of that amount.

*It's doable, but hard, to train only on weekends. And it takes a whole lot longer. If at all possible, I would suggest taking two lessons a weekend. Otherwise you will likely spend most of your lesson time getting familiar with the plane again instead of learning something new.

*I would say that you should expect to have more than 30hrs of CFI time with that kind of lesson schedule, and most likely more than 50hrs of airplane time, too. And that's not even counting if, say, your checkride is delayed and you don't have any margin for that...that could really suck.
 
I think you've shown a good plan and have set a goal. You are also making plans for what comes next and coming here to those that have been down the path before to get advice.

The information and guidance given so far has been excellent but I just wanted to applaud you for making a plan and having the foresight to look and see if it is workable and if not what needs to be done so it will be.

You didn't give your age but the young whipper snappers tend to soak up learning and information much faster than us old curmudgeons. :D
 
I think you're at a good point and you're better prepared than a lot of people who start and quit. What's come up here is that you have ~ 1/2 of what you would need to finish if everything goes right. If you look at how long it took you to save the initial $5k will you be able to save another 5k before you burn through the first? I think that works out at $800/month, you should be able to cover the 2nd half in a little under 6 months

If not what's your plan?

Next...and this is the one I hate to ask people, you get through your check ride, have $0 left, a new PPL and proficiency that's waning every day you don't fly. What next? Is the $200/week towards flying sustainable or is it a stretch to get through the training process?

When I got my private these were very real concerns, and I almost had to stop a couple of times because of finances. That was very stressful because it challenged a dream that I'd had for years. In reality I probably spent money that I shouldn't have at that point on flying because it was cheaper than therapy :) and fortunately it worked out.

I would make sure that your plan allows for you to fly for years to avoid the stress that I went through
 
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1) Congrats on setting a goal, making a well thought out plan, and having the discipline to save for it! :happydance:

2) Yes, it will probably be more. You're so far ahead of most people in thinking this through though. Figure another $8,000 or so. You'll need probably a used I Pad, ForeFlight subscription, a quality used headset (PigPen Racing can set you up), and a few other goodies.

3) Start the flying, keep earning, and it should work out.

4) Schedule 2 -3 times a week - and you might get 1 or 2 flights in, given weather and mechanical caused cancelations.
 
The more you study and take the initiative to learn and practice as much as you can on the ground at home, that will make a difference. The amount of hours I sat with students going over stuff they should have been reading on their own is a crazy amount of money they wasted. When I had to go over procedures for stalls, or emergencies, when they should have been reviewing and practicing at home is money they spent because we had to go over it from the beginning is money they wasted. Get the POH and study it, learn the speeds and as much as you can about the plane so your CFI doesn't have to sit there and spoon feed you at you expense.
 
airheadpenguin said:
I think you're at a good point and you're better prepared than a lot of people who start and quit. What's come up here is that you have ~ 1/2 of what you would need to finish if everything goes right. If you look at how long it took you to save the initial $5k will you be able to save another 5k before you burn through the first? I think that works out at $800/month, you should be able to cover the 2nd half in a little under 6 months

If not what's your plan?

Next...and this is the one I hate to ask people, you get through your check ride, have $0 left, a new PPL and proficiency that's waning every day you don't fly. What next? Is the $200/week towards flying sustainable or is it a stretch to get through the training process?

When I got my private these were very real concerns, and I almost had to stop a couple of times because of finances. That was very stressful because it challenged a dream that I'd had for years. In reality I probably spent money that I shouldn't have at that point on flying because it was cheaper than therapy :) and fortunately it worked out.

I would make sure that your plan allows for you to fly for years to avoid the stress that I went through
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Once I get PPL I'll be able to fly prob once a week, getting more hours at work soon and trying to find more money anywhere I can, been very hard to find jobs in the current market
 
BTW, I noticed on your profile that you're 16. If you haven't already done so, make sure the flight school is okay with your age and will be willing to rent a plane to you. Also confirm that you can get renter's insurance.
 
bmacadoozle said:
Once I get PPL I'll be able to fly prob once a week, getting more hours at work soon and trying to find more money anywhere I can, been very hard to find jobs in the current market
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That might be a reason to wait a few more months, have more of a reserve. Pilot training in New England during winter sucks, lots of cancellations due to weather, there's a lot more low level turbulence which makes practice a lot more inconsistent. Starting in April might put you in a better place financially and give you a better shot at flying often.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
Half Fast said:
BTW, I noticed on your profile that you're 16. If you haven't already done so, make sure the flight school is okay with your age and will be willing to rent a plane to you. Also confirm that you can get renter's insurance.
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Flight schools good with it,most of there students seem to be 15-20 and already got my quote from Avemco, anyone above 15 can get insurance from Avemco at least
 
Half Fast said:
BTW, I noticed on your profile that you're 16. If you haven't already done so, make sure the flight school is okay with your age and will be willing to rent a plane to you. Also confirm that you can get renter's insurance.
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And the medical. You do not want surprises there.
 
Daleandee said:
I think you've shown a good plan and have set a goal. You are also making plans for what comes next and coming here to those that have been down the path before to get advice.

The information and guidance given so far has been excellent but I just wanted to applaud you for making a plan and having the foresight to look and see if it is workable and if not what needs to be done so it will be.

You didn't give your age but the young whipper snappers tend to soak up learning and information much faster than us old curmudgeons. :D
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Thank you! The advice has really been great, I'm 16 and willing to learn so hopefully the information gets absorbed easily
 
murphey said:
And the medical. You do not want surprises there.
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Medical consultation on Feb. 16, filled out all forms for asthma and got reqd. testing done, getting this issued on the first try i'd rather put in the work now and not get deferred
 
bmacadoozle said:
haha that's a good one
Click to expand...

ummm. It’s not a “good one”. It’s my solid advice.

you’ll fly through your $5k quicker than you think, and you will have to put your lessons on hold. Instead save to $10k and get it done with no hesitation.

you’ll spend less and be done faster than if you begin short of the mark.
 
Rgbeard said:
ummm. It’s not a “good one”. It’s my solid advice.

you’ll fly through your $5k quicker than you think, and you will have to put your lessons on hold. Instead save to $10k and get it done with no hesitation.

you’ll spend less and be done faster than if you begin short of the mark.
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Just read what I said the first time and didn't realize how smart-ass it sounded so sorry about that, this approach, however nice it would be is not feasible (for my life). That would mean another year with no flying in which I would be miserable and never end up doing, call me impatient I know
 
Your math alone shows that it'll take you 6 months because that's how long it'll take you to save up the extra 5k.

Look back at last year's weather and see how realistic flying twice a week is during each season. Michigan is a lot like NH .

You seem to have a good mind for data and engineering. Use the prior data to validate your assumptions around scheduling if you're up against a clock.

PM me if you want I'm happy to have a more detailed conversation about this since I did my training over 2 winters (Started in December finished the following February)

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
I am going to stray from the normal advice here. I am proof you don't have to fly multiple times a week to get it done in a reasonable amount of hours of course it depends on the person and how well they retain things.

When I took my private test I had 59 hours. I had all the requirements done at 40. I felt really ready around 50. I flew another 10 hours waiting for the test just to stay sharp.

I started in September and finished in September a year later. Here are the hours by month you can see how it ramps up right before the test but I was often flying once a week or once every few weeks at the beginning.

vyYub7T.jpg


My advice just get started!
 
My Money Bucket post on this topic....

----------------------------------------------

This is what I like to share with aspiring pilots to pay for their training. Following this plan will ensure that lack of funds isn't the reason that keeps you from training. And this plan also works to avoid getting you into any debt.

Once private pilot is obtained, you can repeat this same process for your other certificates.
  • Plan for ~$9000.00, plus or minus for regionality. This can include aircraft rental, supplies, testing fees, books, etc.
  • Do what is necessary to earn money and save up to fill up your money bucket to at least 60% to 66% of the total funds required or budgeted.
    • This includes taking on additional hours at work, part time jobs, neighborhood handyperson jobs, mowing dogs, walking lawns, house sitting, etc.
    • Hold a garage sale. You might be able to get as much as 10% of your funding uncluttering your house.
    • Do anything legal that increases your income
  • Once you have 60% to 66% of the money, open the tap at the bottom of your bucket and start training.
  • As you deplete money from the bottom of your bucket, continue to work the extra income jobs to add to the top of the bucket.
  • If you finish with money left over in the bucket, plan for a celebratory flight with your sweetie to a really nice dinner.
Saving your money at this stage is cool. But don't go spending any big training dollars flying until you have been issued your FAA medical certificate.

What can be done now is downloading and reading the following publications from the FAA.gov site:
  • Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge
  • Airplane Flying Handbook
Reading these two books will get a healthy start on studying for the written exam.

The other “do it sooner” than later is to obtain your medical certificate. But only go into the AME’s office if you know beyond 100% there are no bad things in your medical past, and that the AME will issue the cerificate before you leave the office.

If there is any doubt about this, look for past contributions from me talking about doing a consultation with the AME before you donut for real.

But the important takeaway is to do what you can to earn extra money in advance of starting training so that you have a savings fund to pay for training.
 
There is also lots of scholarship money out there for aviation. All you need to do is get busy applying.

Per Carl Valeri of this website, http://www.aviationcareerspodcast.com/scholarships/, lots of scholarships go unclaimed and unapplied for.

So you might be able to score some training money by being the only one who applied.

(FYI, the podcast is a real good one. Along with @RussR's "Stuck Mic AvCast", it's one I listen to regularly.)
 
AggieMike88 said:
There is also lots of scholarship money out there for aviation. All you need to do is get busy applying.

Per Carl Valeri of this website, http://www.aviationcareerspodcast.com/scholarships/, lots of scholarships go unclaimed and unapplied for.

So you might be able to score some training money by being the only one who applied.

(FYI, the podcast is a real good one. Along with @RussR's "Stuck Mic AvCast", it's one I listen to regularly.)
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Here are two.
Local EAA chapters.
State pilot association
 
bmacadoozle said:
I plan on starting lessons in early June, by which point I will have around $5,000 saved up for lessons. Is this sufficient to start with? Also I have two jobs so I'll keep making $200/wk while using the initial $5,000

Estimated Cost Breakdown:
Written: $150
Medical: $150
Rental Insurance: $325 for the year
Ground School: Got free copy of Sporty's courses but will add $100 just in case
CFI Hourly: $52 x30 (From your example) = $1560
Airplane Hourly: $140 x 50 = $7,000
Checkride: $500
Sales Tax 6%: $587

with these costs, it comes to $10,372
Click to expand...


Have you looked for AOPA, EAA, a local scholarship?
 
bmacadoozle said:
Yeah I know, the 5k is just what I'm using in the beginning and during the time I use that money I will be working every day so after the initial 5k is gone I'll have another 5k
not calling it quits after ppl, gonna fly probably once a week to keep sharp then after high school gonna get my instrument and go from there
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Ah. High School. I was wondering about “...I have two jobs so I'll keep making $200/wk...” Now it makes sense. $5000 to get ‘started’ on, why not? Starting early June. Sounds like summer vacation, but who knows nowadays. Anyway, if you can maybe find a way to squeeze in a way to fly a couple times a week instead of just one at first it wouldn’t hurt. Voices in my head say go for it.
 
luvflyin said:
Ah. High School. I was wondering about “...I have two jobs so I'll keep making $200/wk...” Now it makes sense. $5000 to get ‘started’ on, why not? Starting early June. Sounds like summer vacation, but who knows nowadays. Anyway, if you can maybe find a way to squeeze in a way to fly a couple times a week instead of just one at first it wouldn’t hurt. Voices in my head say go for it.
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Thanks, pretty sure this is my final game plan though that may change as it has many times in the past months.
 
@bmacadoozle - a few more thoughts.

Where are you training at?
If you are training someplace with big seasonal changes...I suggest you start in mid to late April.

Up here in Minnesota if you start in June you've already missed at least 1 great flying month and maybe closer to 8wks. That means if you train like once a week there is a good chance your lessons will run into late fall. If that happens up here it gets dark. No CFI will give a night solo endorsement so that means flying during your school hours or weekends.

The late fall can also bring over overcast for days or weeks on end. Training screeches to a halt and rare flying days result in strong competition for rentals. So things slow way down, lessons take longer and before you know it your plan for 4-5 months takes 11.

How Close Is Your 17th Birthday?
This isn't a big issue but something to think about. Let's say you start training in early April and your 17th birthday is 9 months from that date. Lets also say you solo and get done very quick. You still can't do your checkride until you turn 17 so you end up having to fly hours (to be checkride proficient) that wouldn't have been needed if you turned 17 while training. A nice problem to have! But might impact your budget more than planned.

Can You Turn Off The Money Brain During Lessons?
One thing that can really cause stress is making slower progress than expected. Your pilot brain turns accountant and projects that funds will run out. That leads to pressure to finish on time (or budget). A cycle of stress starts. So one of many reasons to have ample $$$$$ saved is so that your inner accountant doesn't come out during lessons.

Just thoughts. You sound like you are thinking thru better than most. Good luck.
 
airheadpenguin said:
...

Next...and this is the one I hate to ask people, you get through your check ride, have $0 left, a new PPL and proficiency that's waning every day you don't fly. What next? Is the $200/week towards flying sustainable or is it a stretch to get through the training process?

...
Click to expand...

That, right there.

Getting that PPL is one thing, and it's a huge accomplishment.

In many ways you will rarely be "that good" again. Keeping sharp, staying confident, staying safe, staying proficient all requires flying. And if you time your training so that at the end of it you have that certificate and your savings account is empty, well, then what?

Find a way to get past the checkride, hopefully it doesn't end there.
 
Sinistar said:
@bmacadoozle - a few more thoughts.

Where are you training at?
If you are training someplace with big seasonal changes...I suggest you start in mid to late April.

Up here in Minnesota if you start in June you've already missed at least 1 great flying month and maybe closer to 8wks. That means if you train like once a week there is a good chance your lessons will run into late fall. If that happens up here it gets dark. No CFI will give a night solo endorsement so that means flying during your school hours or weekends.

The late fall can also bring over overcast for days or weeks on end. Training screeches to a halt and rare flying days result in strong competition for rentals. So things slow way down, lessons take longer and before you know it your plan for 4-5 months takes 11.

How Close Is Your 17th Birthday?
This isn't a big issue but something to think about. Let's say you start training in early April and your 17th birthday is 9 months from that date. Lets also say you solo and get done very quick. You still can't do your checkride until you turn 17 so you end up having to fly hours (to be checkride proficient) that wouldn't have been needed if you turned 17 while training. A nice problem to have! But might impact your budget more than planned.

Training in Michigan, weather won't be that big of an issue, rarely to cloudy to fly, just bitter cold half the year



Can You Turn Off The Money Brain During Lessons?
One thing that can really cause stress is making slower progress than expected. Your pilot brain turns accountant and projects that funds will run out. That leads to pressure to finish on time (or budget). A cycle of stress starts. So one of many reasons to have ample $$$$$ saved is so that your inner accountant doesn't come out during lessons.

Just thoughts. You sound like you are thinking thru better than most. Good luck.
Click to expand...

Training in Michigan, weather won't be that big of an issue, rarely to cloudy to fly, just bitter cold half the year

Turn 17 this july so 6 months

I hope so
 
Okay Michigan...hmmm...I would still try and start May 1st vs June 1st. What looks nice and flyable to you know will change immensely once you start learning aviation wx and what your northern clouds are really doing. But, I defer to fellow Michigan pilots for a better recommendation.

No worries on age you will turn 17 at just the right time during your training :)
 
I’ve forgotten the details of the story..... what age did @DavidWhite start his training?
 
Half Fast said:
BTW, I noticed on your profile that you're 16. If you haven't already done so, make sure the flight school is okay with your age and will be willing to rent a plane to you. Also confirm that you can get renter's insurance.
Click to expand...

Are you joking? Why would you say that?
 
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