Final Tower Closure Information Released by FAA

tonycondon said:
Perfect won't have yo worry about busting class d north of the gliderport
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Exactly. There is a local ski hill/bump I had my eye on launching from but it was in class d. Now it is in class dismissed. Ain't freedom grand.
 
Marauder said:
Hmmm... KILG was on the "to be closed" list, now it is not on any list. Any coincidence to the fact Joe Biden flies into there regularly? I thought one of the major factors to decide closure was commercial ops. Are there any there?
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Is it an FAA tower? The lists put out today only tell the status of contract towers.
 
ainokea said:
There were a few airports in the Bay Area that were on the original list. Looks like they're ok........for now. :)
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The statuses of APC, CCR, LVK, SCK, and STS have not been announced yet.
 
Looks like mine (KCCR) is staying open. I know it was on the shortlist.
 
Even if the LAL tower closes, you're likely to see it open and staffed by on-duty FAA controllers during Sun 'n' Fun-- SNF will just have to pay the tab.

For some deep-pocket events where the FAA provides additional ATC services, such as the Masters golf tournament and Nascar races, a policy of FAA "cost recovery" has been in place for years. However, those "cost recovery" fees have generally been waived for national and regional fly-ins. I suspect that policy will change.

The idea of show organizers staffing special event towers with experienced volunteer controllers (either retired or off-duty) has been around for decades, and there are controllers in abundance who would do the job, for free, in a heartbeat. But such plans always come up against one fatal flaw: liability. Show organizers routinely buy event insurance that covers liability for activities of their volunteers, but control tower operations are specifically excluded. So far, the insurance companies haven't been willing to waive that exclusion, at least not at a price that would be affordable for a local or regional fly-in.
 
flibmeister said:
Even if the LAL tower closes, you're likely to see it open and staffed by on-duty FAA controllers during Sun 'n' Fun-- SNF will just have to pay the tab.

For some deep-pocket events where the FAA provides additional ATC services, such as the Masters golf tournament and Nascar races, a policy of FAA "cost recovery" has been in place for years. However, those "cost recovery" fees have generally been waived for national and regional fly-ins. I suspect that policy will change.

The idea of show organizers staffing special event towers with experienced volunteer controllers (either retired or off-duty) has been around for decades, and there are controllers in abundance who would do the job, for free, in a heartbeat. But such plans always come up against one fatal flaw: liability. Show organizers routinely buy event insurance that covers liability for activities of their volunteers, but control tower operations are specifically excluded. So far, the insurance companies haven't been willing to waive that exclusion, at least not at a price that would be affordable for a local or regional fly-in.
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But I read recently that the pink shirts at AirVenture are volunteers. Was that incorrect? This from the EAA site:
http://www.airventure.org/atc/volunteers.html said:
Controllers are normally limited to volunteering for a total of seven years at the EAA convention, to allow others a chance to volunteer for this temporary duty assignment.
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Airventure controllers are volunteers in the sense that nobody forces them to go to OSH, it's considered a privilege, and they bid against each other for the opportunity-- but they're all on full pay status.

Personally, I'd prefer that it be a true volunteer job-- it would be more in the spirit of the event, and it would draw nothing but true "aviation enthusiast" controllers, as opposed to the ones that are just there for the party.
 
flibmeister said:
Airventure controllers are volunteers in the sense that nobody forces them to go to OSH, it's considered a privilege, and they bid against each other for the opportunity-- but they're all on full pay status.

Personally, I'd prefer that it be a true volunteer job-- it would be more in the spirit of the event, and it would draw nothing but true "aviation enthusiast" controllers, as opposed to the ones that are just there for the party.
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Thanks. I suspected it might be like that, but the article was less than clear.
 
flibmeister said:
Even if the LAL tower closes, you're likely to see it open and staffed by on-duty FAA controllers during Sun 'n' Fun-- SNF will just have to pay the tab.
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LAL is my home field, Sun 'n' Fun have already released a statement stating in the event of the tower getting the axe prior to the show, they will pay for controllers to come in and cover the fly-in

Edit: Just came across this update released by Sun n Fun last night...

"Though KLAL's tower did appear on the FAA's closure list today, don't despair! Here's the official word from Lites:
SUN ‘n FUN 2013 will take off as scheduled with official certified FAA Air Traffic Controllers insuring safe and expeditious handling of all arrivals and departures at Lakeland Linder Airport April 8-15th.
Contrary to popular belief, the issues in Washington, D.C. will not deter the aviation community from coming together to share the thrills and excitement of the 39th Annual SUN ‘n FUN International Fly-In & Expo.
We thank our sponsors, exhibitors, vendors, volunteers, airshow performers, benefactors and guests for their continuing support."

Also another statement issued by the KLAL operators...

Lakeland Linder Regional Airport
"Our airport is on the list for the FAA to discontinue funding the Tower within the next 60 days however the Airport is presently exploring its options on providing the funding after the FAA funding ceases. Our intent is to keep the Tower operational and functioning with reduced hours at the Airport.

We will keep everyone updated as we work through this."
 
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I see FMY Page Field in Fort Myers is on the list. I flew out of there for a few weeks in 2011 and it was BUSY. I just checked and the stats are only 215 movements a day ... surprising to me. I flew touch and goes for a few hours one day and bet there were 100 operations in that couple of hours. They had everything from Taylorcraft, to 172 to Mooney/Bonanza to jets in the pattern. Tower had people on left pattern, right pattern and coordinated some straight-ins. I know they have quite a few jets.

I was based out of Purdue (KLAF) for a 3 year where tower operates during the day and most traffic is due to Aviation school. Even with all that traffic it only has 260 ops per day. I would have been VERY comfortable flying into and out of Purdue with no tower, but I'm sure the school would have been unhappy. At Page, I really liked having the tower. Also, Page is smack dab in the middle of the city with homes on every side. I know, MK-20 eyeballs, head on a pivot, pilots responsibility to maintain separation and all that, but there are a LOT of barely English speaking student pilots and retirees with rusty skills in the sunny south. Heaven forbid an aluminum shower on a local neighborhood there - Page will be gone and it's a GREAT airport.
 
Capitol Airport in Springfield IL. did not make the list. But I see St.Louis Reg. did.

Capital is a very slow airport. Its been a little over a year ago when I went to a safety seminar and the Head Dude at the tower spoke.

He told us since the F16 left they do not see a lot of traffic. He said there are days only one or two planes come in. He said some days none come in.

Since I heard him speak this might have changed. I know they are doing maint. on the big birds but not sure how often. From what I heard, they are using the F16 hangars for this maint. or the ones they used befroe departing capitol airport.

He welcomed ultralights to fly in. He said call in advance and he will handle everything. He was very nice and seemed like a very welcoming man.

After hearing him speak I wondered what all the fear is about control tower folks with the pilot world. I do understand this is just one man. But after I left that meeting this man made you feel like everyone of them was this nice and understanding.

I understand from others, this is not the case.
 
Seems to me St.Louis would have stayed open and springfield would have closed. I do not understand how they came up with this list?

Or maybe I am missing something?
 
1600vw said:
Seems to me St.Louis would have stayed open and springfield would have closed. I do not understand how they came up with this list?

Or maybe I am missing something?
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I can see how these threads end up being closed due to spin zone issues!:yikes:
 
azure said:
I'll be sad to see Detroit City Tower close. I soloed there. The controllers were always very friendly. But there's no question that the airport isn't busy enough now to justify a tower. I'm not sure why Jackson was spared though.

ObMedia whinge: one local radio announcer said that with towers closed, planes would need "to use their own navigation equipment to land". :rolleyes::frown2::sigh:
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Oh the Humanity!!!!!!
 
I do understand these media guys. Saying "we're closing towers, but the airports will remain open and aircraft will do what they do at other non-towered fields every day" just isn't that exciting a news story.
 
ChrisK said:
I do understand these media guys. Saying "we're closing towers, but the airports will remain open and aircraft will do what they do at other non-towered fields every day" just isn't that exciting a news story.
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I read the findings of a Pan Am 707 crash in Bali in the 1970s. I recall them saying that it didn't take too much traffic to overwhelm the controllers. Pan Am got directed into a mountain, killing all aboard. So there can be worse things than trying to direct yourself.
 
Warrior said:
I read the findings of a Pan Am 707 crash in Bali in the 1970s. I recall them saying that it didn't take too much traffic to overwhelm the controllers. Pan Am got directed into a mountain, killing all aboard. So there can be worse things than trying to direct yourself.
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Are you referring to PanAm 812? The investigation determined the flight crew screwed up the instrument approach.
 
Since these are contract towers: I just got to wondering - how many of these controllers are going to end up finding other jobs? How many will return when the towers reopen? How many new trainees and rusty controllers will be in the towers when they do reopen?
 
roncachamp said:
Are you referring to PanAm 812? The investigation determined the flight crew screwed up the instrument approach.
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Thanks. My dad was a Pan Am pilot who managed to make it to retirement without making headlines. I may have gotten that from ALPA magazine which tends to favor pilots or maybe I just dreamed it. :confused:


Of course when a plane crashes all sorts of things get said and it is possible that somewhere in the speculation it was said that if more than one plane arrives at Bali in an afternoon it throws them into chaos.
 
onwards said:
Looks like mine (KCCR) is staying open. I know it was on the shortlist.
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Where are you seeing an announcement on that? I'm not seeing it on either of the lists of towers that will stay open.
 
flav8r said:
Well it appears that traffic load has nothing to do with the choice of airport towers to close here in North Florida. :dunno:

KSGJ - St Augustine to close with 362 flight ops
KVQQ - Cecil Field to remain open with 224 flight ops.

And with Sun 'n Fun just around the corner they have decided to close the tower at KLAL.
But it is my understanding that they will be bringing in retired ATC personnel for the airshow event.
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if you really want a laugh, compare those to jefferson city MO which seems to be staying open
 
Ashes to ashes. OJC didn't have or need a tower back when it was busy, why does it need one now?

Matthew said:
Since these are contract towers: I just got to wondering - how many of these controllers are going to end up finding other jobs? How many will return when the towers reopen? How many new trainees and rusty controllers will be in the towers when they do reopen?
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wabower said:
...why does it need one now?
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Dunnno if it needs one now, but it has one. I do think that once whatever point being made is made that most, maybe all, will reopen.

I think I've woken up tower controllers more than once at more than one airport. It probably is a good idea to review just how many towers are actually needed. But this deal is something other than that.
 
iflyforfun said:
I see FMY Page Field in Fort Myers is on the list. I flew out of there for a few weeks in 2011 and it was BUSY. I just checked and the stats are only 215 movements a day ... surprising to me. I flew touch and goes for a few hours one day and bet there were 100 operations in that couple of hours. They had everything from Taylorcraft, to 172 to Mooney/Bonanza to jets in the pattern. Tower had people on left pattern, right pattern and coordinated some straight-ins. I know they have quite a few jets.

I was based out of Purdue (KLAF) for a 3 year where tower operates during the day and most traffic is due to Aviation school. Even with all that traffic it only has 260 ops per day. I would have been VERY comfortable flying into and out of Purdue with no tower, but I'm sure the school would have been unhappy. At Page, I really liked having the tower. Also, Page is smack dab in the middle of the city with homes on every side. I know, MK-20 eyeballs, head on a pivot, pilots responsibility to maintain separation and all that, but there are a LOT of barely English speaking student pilots and retirees with rusty skills in the sunny south. Heaven forbid an aluminum shower on a local neighborhood there - Page will be gone and it's a GREAT airport.
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I fly out of PGD, and when we got our tower, heard rumors from a number of people some I thought in the know that they were talking about closing the tower at Page after we got our tower. I got to wonder if this closure list is some part of a bigger scheme by the FAA to get rid of some towers forever they feel they do not want.
 
I guess the only thing we can do is wait and see. Who knows, Chicken Little may have been right. ;)

Matthew said:
Dunnno if it needs one now, but it has one. I do think that once whatever point being made is made that most, maybe all, will reopen.

I think I've woken up tower controllers more than once at more than one airport. It probably is a good idea to review just how many towers are actually needed. But this deal is something other than that.
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What I'm personally more interested in than the safety aspect is how it's going to impact picking up IFR flight plans and releases. I can imagine much more delay but we'll see.

I do think we'll see more threads about pattern conflicts, though.
 
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LDJones said:
Notice how the federal employees are protected but the private contractors (who probably provide the most bang for buck) get shutdown?

Govt at its best.
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This is the fundamental reason the govt contracts certain services...so it can cut them rapidly.

Do you really think the contractors supporting Afghanistan should be retained when there is no need or money for them?
 
Interesting thing with the towers being closed in western Washington. KOLM (my home), KTIW and KRTN. RTN is the place Boeing builds 737s. These are all the fields with towers south of SEA. KBFI is going to see an increase in student pilot traffic. Student pilots have to have a certain number (10?) of takeoffs and landings at a towered field. I don't see them using SEA for this. The other one in the Seattle area is KPAE and they seem to have dodged this round. I've been into BFI twice. Once dual with my CFI when I was a student and once in the evening with my CFII on an IFR plan while working on my IR. That's a busy place. Should be interesting.
 
Talked to a guy today who's involved with ferrying King Airs back to the US from Middle East. Whatever they were used for is evidently done.

Mach.12 said:
This is the fundamental reason the govt contracts certain services...so it can cut them rapidly.

Do you really think the contractors supporting Afghanistan should be retained when there is no need or money for them?
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ISM - Kissimmee is staying open but it wil bear the brunt, for student poilots, of all those needing towered airport work, since virtually every towered, non class B airport, in a long distance is getting cut.

That's the only real concern I see in the near term. I'd imagine a lot of pilots will try to file IFR in route, if they can but who knows what the FAA will decide about that.
 
wabower said:
Talked to a guy today who's involved with ferrying King Airs back to the US from Middle East. Whatever they were used for is evidently done.
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It's a shame, but from my experience, contracts are very specific...you can be terminated at anytime for almost anything.

That's the nature of the business.
 
N801BH said:
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Too bad government employees are not treated the same.:mad2::mad:.
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Why?

We've all had bad experiences with a half dozen or so bureaucrats but effective governance is based on continuity and that is what govvies provide.

There are bad apples in the bureau of weights and measure just like there are bad apples building airplanes at Boeing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enumclaw_horse_sex_case) , but working for a civilian company that provides contract services to the US Government is different than working for the government.

Under your system, every mayor, governor and president could can all employees who they didn't personally like and plug in "yes men."

Again, I've worked with a lot of government contractors and they all knew they could be gone the next day for no real reason.
 
Mach.12 said:
Why?

We've all had bad experiences with a half dozen or so bureaucrats but effective governance is based on continuity and that is what govvies provide.

There are bad apples in the bureau of weights and measure just like there are bad apples building airplanes at Boeing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enumclaw_horse_sex_case) , but working for a civilian company that provides contract services to the US Government is different than working for the government.

Under your system, every mayor, governor and president could can all employees who they didn't personally like and plug in "yes men."

Again, I've worked with a lot of government contractors and they all knew they could be gone the next day for no real reason.
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I can't speak for other states but in Florida, city/county managers tend to be the only ones that can fire city, or county - department employees, to limit what you are describing. As I understand it, the mayor-county chairmen hire and fire the city-county managers but they handle personel.
 
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