Final FAA Hangar Rules

3393RP said:
I dunno...I didn't say that, did I?
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You said it was a good thing that the guy got a letter saying he can't store a ladder and tractor with his airplane.
 
Salty said:
There must be something stopping the free market here. If I were an airport admin that had no available hangars and a waiting list, I would keep jacking the prices until I either had vacancies or made enough money to build more hangars.
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Have you priced commercial storage businesses. Hangers rent for substantially less per square ft. Part of the reason is airports are funded from other revenues other than hangar rent.
 
dmspilot said:
Why is it a problem if a hangar is used for storing things in addition to an airplane?
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There are laws that prevent items that are paid for by tax dollars to unfairly compete with the private sector...so using your publicly funded hanger for storage competes with mini storage operations for example...even more so on commercial use of the hangar since they are typically a lower price per sq ft.

I am on the Board for a non-profit Festiaval and we can no longer use school busses for transportation (which we paid for and money went directly to the local school dristrict and extra hours available for the drivers in summer) because it competes with the private charter bus companies and now cost us exponentially more. We loose because it is significantly less money that goes back to charities, the District and local drivers loose the extra money...only winner is the for profit commercial operators who get to line their pockets.
 
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Shawn said:
using your publicly funded hanger for storage competes with mini storage operations
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Wow, how about actually reading the posts you're replying to? The hangar is being used to store an AIRPLANE. There just happens to be other things incidentally in it as well.
 
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Brad Z said:
It's generally not, provided it's not a fire hazard and not otherwise displacing the aeronautical use of the hangar.
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I didn't ask whether it was or was not a problem. I asked 3393RP why he thinks it's a problem.
 
Shawn said:
There are laws that prevent items that are paid for by tax dollars to unfairly compete with the private sector...so using your publicly funded hanger for storage competes with mini storage operations for example...even more so on commercial use of the hangar since they are typically a lower price per sq ft.

I am on the Board for a non-profit Festiaval and we can no longer use school busses for transportation (which we paid for and money went directly to the local school dristrict and extra hours available for the drivers in summer) because it competes with the private charter bus companies and now cost us exponentially more. We loose because it is significantly less money that goes back to charities, the District and local drivers loose the extra money...only winner is the for profit commercial operators who get to line their pockets.
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And all the for profit commercial operators employees and their suppliers.

I'm not necessarily against using school buses for this sort of thing but it's not JUST the for profit operators who "get to line their pockets".
 
dmspilot said:
Wow, how about actually reading the posts you're replying to? The hangar is being used to store an AIRPLANE. There just happens to be other things incidentally in it as well.
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Yup...I did read it and stand by my explanation of why the FAA in part has had issue with additional personal storage in a hangar in the past...airplane or not.

I think the new guidelines issued are a good balance.
 
jsstevens said:
And all the for profit commercial operators employees and their suppliers.
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...at the expense of the financial viability of the non-profit. Thread drift but in my example our transportation cost have skyrocketed from $70K to close to $300k do to the enforcement of this rule. All profits from this event get donated back directly to local charities and I for one would rather be volunteering my time for those charities' and community's benefit...not volunteering the for profit benefit of the owner and operators of that bus company.

We went from a win-win-win between the organization, school district, and beneficiaries of the festival to a loose-loose-loose-win for the for profit bus company as it is now a pure additional expense.
 
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Shawn said:
...at the expense of the financial viability of the non-profit. Thread drift but in my example our transportation cost have skyrocketed from $70K to close to $300k do to the enforcement of this rule. All profits from this event get donated back directly to local charities and I for one would rather be volunteering my time for those charities' and community's benefit...not volunteering the for profit benefit of the owner and operators of that bus company.

We went from a win-win-win between the organization, school district, and beneficiaries of the festival to a loose-loose-loose-win for the for profit bus company as it is now a pure additional expense.
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And you failed to quote the rest of my message where I said I wasn't against such relationships and uses of the school buses - just clarifying that it's not all evil big business owners lining their pockets...
 
jsstevens said:
And you failed to quote the rest of my message where I said I wasn't against such relationships and uses of the school buses - just clarifying that it's not all evil big business owners lining their pockets...
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Yeah, I got that...it is just the application of those rules in certain situations that are sometimes asinine as in the FAA and hangar storage. If you got a plane in there, all else shouldn't matter as long as it is not a hazard or impede the intended use.
 
Thats Potomac right? I'm on the 2-year wait list at Manassas but I figure if I want to pay up, I could grab the next one at Potomac and pay that rate until Manassas opens up.

Of course step 1 is actually buying the airplane. Bit of a chicken and the egg situation when airplanes shouldn't be left outside but there is a 1-2 year (or more) wait for a hangar


Brad Z said:
Or you could do what our airport manager does at our non-federally obligated airport: When a hangar comes up for rent, he puts the hangar on eBay and auctions the monthly rate. As long as you're willing to pay more than everyone else waiting, you're always next. As a consumer I don't particularly care for this practice but he's got a business to run, and airports near a major city aren't cheap to operate.
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atbroome said:
Thats Potomac right? I'm on the 2-year wait list at Manassas but I figure if I want to pay up, I could grab the next one at Potomac and pay that rate until Manassas opens up.

Of course step 1 is actually buying the airplane. Bit of a chicken and the egg situation when airplanes shouldn't be left outside but there is a 1-2 year (or more) wait for a hangar
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Sure is. You might also want to consider W32. While certainly not as pretty as VKX, Stan often has hangars available at reasonable rates which may work for you as a stopgap until you find something at HEF.
 
Maybe I wasn't clear, the airport claimed that the mower and ladder were non-aviation related and therefore not allowed to be stored in the hangar. Once I explained they are aviation related they are allowed, for now.
 
cgrab said:
Maybe I wasn't clear, the airport claimed that the mower and ladder were non-aviation related and therefore not allowed to be stored in the hangar. Once I explained they are aviation related they are allowed, for now.
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Isn't it nice when the goober-ment lets you park a lawnmower somewhere without making a big deal about it? LOL.
 
I'm one of the violators.

I have two adjacent hangars at the local airport. One has the plane and ancillary aviation stuff in it. The other has the motor home, bass boat and convertible in it. I've had the non-aviation hangar for about four years.

This came to pass because they tore down the storage unit that I had been using to build a strip mall. I searched for another but found nothing available for at least a 50 mile radius. I knew there were numerous open hangars, 8 to be exact, at my airport so I called the airport manager and said "you'd like to have another $150/mo and I need storage. How about I rent a hangar and give you my word that if you ever need it for a plane then I'll move my stuff elsewhere?"

He said "bring me $150."

I live in a block grant state. As such, the FAA doesn't inspect our airports except those that are Charlie and Bravo. The state DOT does. According to the airport mgr, the DOT inspector never looks at/in hangars. They're only concerned with the movement and safety areas. Maybe this will change as a result of the new FAA guidelines?

Stay tuned!

(Oh, and there are still 6 open hangars at this airport, anyone need a storage unit? ;))

There are a few benefits to living in a fly-over state.
 
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TommyTBone said:
This came to pass because they tore down the storage unit that I had been using to build a strip mall. I searched for another but found nothing available for at least a 50 mile radius. I knew there were numerous open hangars, 8 to be exact, at my airport so I called the airport manager and said "you'd like to have another $150/mo and I need storage. How about I rent a hangar and give you my word that if you ever need it for a plane then I'll move my stuff elsewhere?"
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Under the new rules, this is permissible to generate revenue for the airport, as long as no one is needing the space for an aircraft at the time. Previously the rules were no non-aeronautical use at all, but the new rules eased the restrictions some and are allowing exceptions under certain conditions.
 
What is personal property tax rate for aircraft in the Potomac section of Prince George's? A quick Google search didn't turn up anything. Hopefully its not the same rate charged for autos.

Brad Z said:
Sure is. You might also want to consider W32. While certainly not as pretty as VKX, Stan often has hangars available at reasonable rates which may work for you as a stopgap until you find something at HEF.
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atbroome said:
What is personal property tax rate for aircraft in the Potomac section of Prince George's? A quick Google search didn't turn up anything. Hopefully its not the same rate charged for autos.
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Maryland doesn't have property tax....one time sales tax, yes.
 
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