FIKI flights ok?

[Gilgamesh]

Yeah the wing tips load up since they're unprotected. The rest of the wing stays beautifully clean, as your picture demonstrates. I don't mind because it helps give you an idea of how bad the icing is by looking at the tips. Vertical and horizontal stabs are protected as is the prop and windshield

No argument from me, I love the Cirrus TKS system - it really is necessary if you're wanting to get places on a schedule in the Midwestern winter. The ice in my photo was accumulated with less than 20 minutes in the soup, I was VMC on top, on the RNAV 20 approach into Wisconsin Rapids last November. Delayed descent until about 5 minutes from the IAF, skipped the procedure turn and landed - had to kick the system into high shortly after entering the clouds. I didn't take off again until I had TKS topped off, but as it turned out I didn't pick any ice up going out at all. Never flown with boots so I can't opine on those. But TKS is awesome and opens up a lot of options for serious flying - if you can afford it definitely worth it IMHO.

 

[Tantalum]

I don’t recommend taking anything into forecast ice without a turbine on it

I'm going to ask the stupid question.. but what's the main reason for this? The wing and atmospheric conditions don't care what's moving the plane through the air, and plenty of turbines have crashed due to ice. Is it just to have the availability of more power from a more reliable powerplant and a higher service ceiling and pressurization? Or is there something else I'm not thinking of?

Most high performance "ice capable" piston singles have service ceilings at or near 25,000 ft, some are pressurized, some have capable weather radar (like the Malibu (boots), for example)
A caravan (old) has a service ceiling barely over 20K and the newer ones are also 25K

TBM/PC12/King Air (most) - all go much higher, are pressurized, etc..

So what gives?

 

[Tantalum]

The ice in my photo was accumulated with less than 20 minutes in the soup

This was the biggest "oh crap" moment for me.. at how *quickly* ice can build up. My first few times you could practically see it start growing on the wings like some kind of insidious mold. Really makes you understand why people without any ice protection can quickly be overwhelmed by it

had to kick the system into high shortly after entering the clouds

This has been my experience as well. Norm is really just good enough to coat the wings and give you some "base coat" but for any real ice I found myself using high. I've never used MAX in anger though! (and hope to never have to)

PS - the ice gods know when you've just topped off the TKS, and never give you ice. You tend to build ice when you only have about half the tank left!! Kind of like "auto-rough" mode when flying over water

 

[Gilgamesh]

PS - the ice gods know when you've just topped off the TKS, and never give you ice. You tend to build ice when you only have about half the tank left!! Kind of like "auto-rough" mode when flying over water

Funny you should say that, I took off from DLH with only half a tank and was kicking myself when the ice really started to build. If I had gone missed or had to hold I might have needed to get above and divert which would have been pretty embarrassing

 

[DavidWhite]

I'm going to ask the stupid question.. but what's the main reason for this? The wing and atmospheric conditions don't care what's moving the plane through the air, and plenty of turbines have crashed due to ice. Is it just to have the availability of more power from a more reliable powerplant and a higher service ceiling and pressurization? Or is there something else I'm not thinking of?

Most high performance "ice capable" piston singles have service ceilings at or near 25,000 ft, some are pressurized, some have capable weather radar (like the Malibu (boots), for example)
A caravan (old) has a service ceiling barely over 20K and the newer ones are also 25K

TBM/PC12/King Air (most) - all go much higher, are pressurized, etc..

So what gives?

Generally higher performance, higher ceiling, more available power, more reliable, etc (caravan excepted from most of these). A turbine single technically has less of a chance of losing the powerplant than a piston twin has of losing both. Half of my metric for a good icing airplane is how quick it can get through an icing layer. A caravan as soon as it has a whiff of ice on it loses a ton of performance, and I’ve heard the Malibu is the same way. Really anything turbine other than a caravan though won’t have any trouble punching the few thousand feet through an icing layer, and again the reliability is hard to beat.

 

[Ghery]

Got it. So, obviously plan good weather flights but snowy mountain towns can still have safe conditions. Its a sold backup for something unforeseen. And always make schedules adjustable as the risk is never worth the cost.

I’m VFR and will be doing IFR certs this yr then looking for a plane but trying to research now. Thanks.

I fly in the PNW and our ice machine is serious. I haven't flown a FIKI plane, so what I'm talking about is a simple garden variety 172/182. My approach to ice is simple - I am chicken! I am chicken! The two times I've picked up ice were in a 182. The second time was during an instrument lesson and the only reason I know we picked up ice was the CFII commenting on it (but not being concerned). The first time was the day before my PP check ride and the CFII in the right seat (and a former airline pilot) said he didn't want to do that again. We flew into a cloud at about 12,000 MSL and iced up immediately. No thanks, never again.

The key thing that getting my IR did was increase the variety of conditions that I will not fly in. VFR is simple - if you can't stay out of the clouds, don't go. IFR conditions require a great deal more thought and there are still conditions that say, "Don't fly today". Learn about weather conditions and choose wisely.

I will say that your plan to get the IR is a wise one. Then, if you want to use it, use it often. Not just to stay current, but to stay proficient. That is the big challenge.

 

[N1120A]

The OP is not being unreasonable. Even 747s don't hang out in ice - they climb out, descend or whatever - Just like the rest of us. If the OP has such a mission, getting a FIKI plane is a good idea. I, like Tantalum, prefer TKS to boots. I'm never going to spend hours in ice - in anything.

I’ve been told even FIKI planes are only required to handle moderate icing for a maximum of 30 minutes.

Moderate icing is scary enough.

I never had to choose between altitude or airspeed when flying a TKS caravan, but did plenty in a booted caravan. TKS is a much better system when running and operated properly.

The Caravan is so had bad with boots that the FAA nearly pullled FIKI certification from it.

Generally higher performance, higher ceiling, more available power, more reliable, etc (caravan excepted from most of these). A turbine single technically has less of a chance of losing the powerplant than a piston twin has of losing both. Half of my metric for a good icing airplane is how quick it can get through an icing layer. A caravan as soon as it has a whiff of ice on it loses a ton of performance, and I’ve heard the Malibu is the same way. Really anything turbine other than a caravan though won’t have any trouble punching the few thousand feet through an icing layer, and again the reliability is hard to beat.

My understanding is that the Malibu sheds ice pretty well, but there are some important rules regarding ice penetration speed and the like. Definitely better than the Caravan, that has put people in spins thanks to the awful boot system.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

I wonder if treating the boots with silicone beforehand would help?

 

[PaulS]

Here is the Cirrus FIKI TKS duration numbers. If you are using MAX for any longer than a short period of time, you are in ice you shouldn't be in, IMO.

Maximum Operating Time Continuous operation of the aircraft in conditions that promote ice accretion is prohibited. Use of the windshield de-ice system will reduce the maximum available operating time of the system.

Normal Flow Duration......................................... 150 Minutes (3.2 gph)
High Flow Duration............................................... 75 Minutes (6.4 gph)
Maximum Flow Duration.................................. 37.5 Minutes (12.8 gph)