Feeling Defeated - 3rd class SI

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Stegoo_86

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Stego_86
Hey All,

I had been deferred for being prescribed an SRI (Zoloft). I have everything checked off the list, but my Cog-screen came back with issues. Furthermore, the examiner described that I wasn't forthcoming enough in regards to my medical conditions. I personally disagree, as I told them everything. However, the test you take to determine this is more than 564 questions. I answered to the best of my ability, but this was reported as extreme defensiveness.

I was recommended to take more counseling with another doctor if I wanted to take the test again. Here is where I'm at....

All of this is my own fault. I would've qualified for a basic med but failed to look into it. Now my medical is in limbo. I feel that the HIMS dr and the neuro-psych have no report with me. I have my prescribing BCP that I know well, and my therapist. I've worked with them for many years, and these doctors know me well. I also have a great report with them. I know that the flight surgeon takes all things into consideration, but with the stain on my report, I don't feel that this will go over well. I have no aspiration to be a commercial pilot, just wanted to get my instrument rating and fly my friends. A part of me wonders if I should continue to pressure this and work it out, but another part of me just feels that, "it is what it is." Maybe if I'm lucky the regulations will change and Basic med will become a direct path for those of us in my situation.

Should I stick to the path? Maybe try to find a new HIMS or neuro-physc? Is it even worth it at this point?
 
Have you spoken with your HIMS AME? They may have some suggestions. I have seen some of the docs on this board refer to "cognitive training."

On the psychiatric tests, there are "control" questions to make sure you're not lying, some obvious, and some subtle. Sounds like you took the MMPI. Two examples of control questions there are "At times I feel like swearing," and "I do not always tell the truth." Everyone feels like swearing sometimes; everyone lies sometimes; so if you mark False on either of these questions, it suggests you're lying. These are two very obvious control questions, but some of the scales have really subtle measures of shielding information. For example, if you answer false to "At times I feel like smashing things," or "I certainly feel useless at times," that indicates an increase on one measure of being defensive/shielding information. But it also feeds into a bunch of other scales, like depression and schizophrenia. The only real way to get by is to tell the truth.
 
future_western_pilot said:
Have you spoken with your HIMS AME? They may have some suggestions. I have seen some of the docs on this board refer to "cognitive training."

On the psychiatric tests, there are "control" questions to make sure you're not lying, some obvious, and some subtle. Sounds like you took the MMPI.

Yea, that's the test. I've taken a few of these before in my life and I never do well with them. I answer it to the best of my reasoning. I'm not attempting to shield information, but I get tripped up. For example, it asked 3 times "Sometimes I do things for the thrill." I answered yes all 3 times. I have, in my life done things for the thrill. However, it also states "I feel like harming myself and others," and I absolutely do not. I get that there is much more going on in that test, but that's where I'm landing. If I feel that I don't do well on these exams, why continue? I made my own bed and I have to lay in it a guess.
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Would flying gliders, ultralights, or balloons be of any interest?
 
Palmpilot said:
Would flying gliders, ultralights, or balloons be of any interest?
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Maybe, but it's not my passion. I'm really just looking for some help, or words of encouragement. I went through and re-read the exam, and though the Dr. essentially wrote up a no-go, he didn't leave me without any options. I know the Dr. is just doing his part and being honest, so I'm not upset with him. He even explained that if I didn't do well that it doesn't mean "the end." My IQ was in the highly gifted range, and overall I scored as average on the CogScreen-AE. My big issue was the MMPI-2, as the test couldn't be scored. This also happened 5 years ago the last time I took the MMPI-2. They also reported that I had the same lack of forthcomingness on the SASSI-2. But that test literally asks questions like, "When I get bored I drink," and I don't! I was open with the Dr's verbally about any past "use" of any substance. I don't like to drink too often, I don't like how it makes me feel. I'm just trying to figure out if this is still worth the fight.
 
I hate tests like that. Often the answer is “it depends”. For example, suppose it’s “I am highly organized.” I would have no idea what to answer, because it depends. I am highly organized with my file system. I am not at all organized with my sock drawer. In what area of life are you referring to? I don’t think I’ve ever taken the MMPI, is there an “it depends” option?
 
Rushie said:
I hate tests like that. Often the answer is “it depends”. For example, suppose it’s “I am highly organized.” I would have no idea what to answer, because it depends. I am highly organized with my file system. I am not at all organized with my sock drawer. In what area of life are you referring to? I don’t think I’ve ever taken the MMPI, is there an “it depends” option?
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LOL. True/False only!
 
Rushie said:
I hate tests like that. Often the answer is “it depends”. For example, suppose it’s “I am highly organized.” I would have no idea what to answer because it depends. I am highly organized with my file system. I am not at all organized with my sock drawer. In what area of life are you referring? I don’t think I’ve ever taken the MMPI, is there an “it depends” option?
Click to expand...

For real! That's where I'm coming from. It depends! Is it asking how I feel at that exact moment, the past 2 weeks? Or my life altogether? Furthermore, the SASSI-2 asked for conditions in the last 6 months. That test is primarily about alcohol, which in 6 months I've maybe had 4 to 5 drinks total, at dinner. So it asks some easy questions, then goes on to clearly ask questions that someone with an alcohol abuse issue would experience. No, I don't drink so much that I have a hangover, not since I was in my early 20s. No, I don't have a 6 pack or more a week...etc... However, answering these questions came off as defensive. I can't argue with the science, it's clearly picking up on something and no amount of typing on here will change that. It's just very disheartening and difficult. I seriously was more of a risk at 19 than I ever will be today at 35. Yet, I was able to fly with all of my ridiculous and childish flaws.
 
Stegoo_86 said:
Maybe, but it's not my passion. I'm really just looking for some help, or words of encouragement. I went through and re-read the exam, and though the Dr. essentially wrote up a no-go, he didn't leave me without any options. I know the Dr. is just doing his part and being honest, so I'm not upset with him. He even explained that if I didn't do well that it doesn't mean "the end." My IQ was in the highly gifted range, and overall I scored as average on the CogScreen-AE. My big issue was the MMPI-2, as the test couldn't be scored. This also happened 5 years ago the last time I took the MMPI-2. They also reported that I had the same lack of forthcomingness on the SASSI-2. But that test literally asks questions like, "When I get bored I drink," and I don't! I was open with the Dr's verbally about any past "use" of any substance. I don't like to drink too often, I don't like how it makes me feel. I'm just trying to figure out if this is still worth the fight.
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When a young person needs advice, my favorite thing to be able to tell them is “Life is going to knock you down. You don’t get to decide when or where. You get to decide what you do next”
 
Does anyone else know if the result of "inconclusive," will cause problems, even if I pass it next time? Referring to the MMPI-2 and SAAS-2.
 
Normally “inconclusive” means you answered some of the questions inconsistently too often and so the results f the test will not be valid. You are normally then given other exams to look for pertinent psychological characteristics - probably already were.

This will be combined with other factors in your neuropsychology and neuropsychiatric exam and any comment on it should be in the report. Your AME should receive those reports in making an application. You should be able to get a copy of them.

So the impact of this test result will depend on a lot of other observations during the exam.
 
Stegoo_86 said:
Maybe, but it's not my passion. I'm really just looking for some help, or words of encouragement. I went through and re-read the exam, and though the Dr. essentially wrote up a no-go, he didn't leave me without any options. I know the Dr. is just doing his part and being honest, so I'm not upset with him. He even explained that if I didn't do well that it doesn't mean "the end." My IQ was in the highly gifted range, and overall I scored as average on the CogScreen-AE. My big issue was the MMPI-2, as the test couldn't be scored. This also happened 5 years ago the last time I took the MMPI-2. They also reported that I had the same lack of forthcomingness on the SASSI-2. But that test literally asks questions like, "When I get bored I drink," and I don't! I was open with the Dr's verbally about any past "use" of any substance. I don't like to drink too often, I don't like how it makes me feel. I'm just trying to figure out if this is still worth the fight.
Click to expand...

If it was me I would try to figure out a way to get the medical at this point what do you have to lose now. Maybe find some other doctors who can help.
 
Rushie said:
I hate tests like that. Often the answer is “it depends”. For example, suppose it’s “I am highly organized.” I would have no idea what to answer, because it depends. I am highly organized with my file system. I am not at all organized with my sock drawer. In what area of life are you referring to? I don’t think I’ve ever taken the MMPI, is there an “it depends” option?
Click to expand...

I was in management at a large corporation that used these type of written test for personality evaluation. I hated them too but they can tell you things about people that might not get noticed in a conversational interview. But how do you answer a question such as, "if your mom was stealing from the company would you turn her in?"

Similar questions were asked in various ways to see if the applicant would give the same answer every time. In the interview itself, by law, certain questions can't be asked and you are supposed to not hear certain things. But that's like a judge telling the jury to "not hear" what they just heard. Or trying to make a great impression the second time.
 
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