Fatal runway nway incursion in Moscow

NoHeat

NoHeat

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CEO of a big French oil company killed at a Moscow airport, Vnukovu. It is a busy airport. Landing gear hit a snowplow on takeoff.

I'm wondering if that could happen here.

http://rt.com/news/197648-moscow-vnukovo-jet-crash/

Usatoday account:

Airport officials told Tass that the collision occurred at 11:57 p.m. Moscow time Monday, killing Total CEO Christophe de Margerie and three crew members, all of them French citizens.

A representative of the transport investigative committee tells Tass that the French-made Falcon 50 business jet, headed for France, collided with the snow removal machine during takeoff.

Airport officials tell Tass that visibility at the time was 350 meters (1,150 feet). Airport officials say the driver of the snow removal machine was not hurt.

Edit, I mangled the subject of the thread. Gotta love those iPads.
 
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I suppose it could, even with FAA's special emphasis on the runway incursions. But not very likely.

When was the last time something like this happened? I recall a 747 ramming construction equipment in Taipei a few years back (probably more than 10). Took off in a fog from a closed runway or taxiway.
 
747 hit a pick-up in Anchorage in the 80's and I remember a Navajo getting its wings taken off by something there too.
 
NoHeat said:
CEO of a big French oil company killed at a Moscow airport, Vnukovu. It is a busy airport. Landing gear hit a snowplow on takeoff.

I'm wondering if that could happen here...





.
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Yup.. A few years back the CEO of a MAJOR fortune 500 company was leaving here in his G-5 at about 9:30 pm and collided with a snowplow headed the other way on the runway..... Tire missed the cab of the plow by a couple of inches, but close enough to damage the bubble gum machine plastic top..:yikes:

It wasn't a few weeks later that they installed flashing red lights at each end to warn planes taking the active that a plow was on the runway....
 
Needless loss of life,sad,may they rest in peace.
 
Henning said:
No loss of life is needless, death in inevitable for everyone.
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No.......your wrong. It WAS needless deaths, plural, due to an idiot drunk. To say that eventual death is inevitable is hardly a profound announcement and old news.
 
Drunk probably true. If not, still really stupid decision to be on the runway while the aircraft was taking off. Either way snowplow driver is an a.h.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
No.......your wrong. It WAS needless deaths, plural, due to an idiot drunk. To say that eventual death is inevitable is hardly a profound announcement and old news.
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Yep, it's happened forever, that's why I can't figure out why it's such a big deal :dunno:. When the planet is overpopulated by a factor of 8x, there is only necessary death. This one is as karmic as any. This crew, as I will likely, was caught up in someone else's karma. It doesn't matter though, this life is just a blink in eternity. Society breeds idiot drunks in large numbers, they must exist for a reason.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Drunk probably true. If not, still really stupid decision to be on the runway while the aircraft was taking off. Either way snowplow driver is an a.h.
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Pretty bold of you to presume the decision to plow the runway was the driver, and not the controllers. Two years ago I was taking off in MN and right behind the plane were a line of snowplows getting ready to plow while operations were running. Anything operating in the movement area is controlled by tower or some other means of positive control. This is true in Russia also.

If the driver was drunk, and if he wasn't cleared onto the runway to plow, that's fine, we will find out most likely - but right now it's pretty presumptuous.
 
docmirror said:
Pretty bold of you to presume the decision to plow the runway was the driver, and not the controllers. Two years ago I was taking off in MN and right behind the plane were a line of snowplows getting ready to plow while operations were running. Anything operating in the movement area is controlled by tower or some other means of positive control. This is true in Russia also.

If the driver was drunk, and if he wasn't cleared onto the runway to plow, that's fine, we will find out most likely - but right now it's pretty presumptuous.
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Exactly.

It could be a plow driver error.
It could be a controller error.
It could be a pilot error.

Not enough to know right now.
 
- Drunkedness is not confirmed
- The plow was operating on an intersecting runway
- Feds (Sledstvennyiy Komitet RF) are taking over the criminal investigation
 
zaitcev said:
- Feds (Sledstvennyiy Komitet RF) are taking over the criminal investigation
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Is that good? Or bad? Or who knows? Not sure of how anything goes over there vis-a-vis aviation.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Could be anything. Did Putin like the guy?
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Yes, at least as much as Putin "likes" anyone! :D

Kiddo's Driver said:
Ding! Ding! Ding!!!

We have a winner!

French... Oil... CEO... That is enough right there to make you put on a tin foil hat and look at this with squinty eyes...
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Or, it could be an unfortunate chain of events that resulted in a tragic accident. Not yet ready to put on the tin-foil hat and squint.

Gary
 
Gary said:
Yes, at least as much as Putin "likes" anyone! :D
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Yep... He was a big "friend", because he came on the record with statements that Europe should secure alternative transportation routes instead of trying to reduce the shipments of Russian gas. Route around Ukraine instead of finding alternative suppliers. His argument was that alternatives (LNG) are going to be much more expensive. Now that he's dead the fraction of "no more Russian gas" is going to be stronger.
 
zaitcev said:
Yep... He was a big "friend", because he came on the record with statements that Europe should secure alternative transportation routes instead of trying to reduce the shipments of Russian gas. Route around Ukraine instead of finding alternative suppliers. His argument was that alternatives (LNG) are going to be much more expensive. Now that he's dead the fraction of "no more Russian gas" is going to be stronger.
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No, his replacement will believe the exact same thing because it will keep things the way they are. Nobody really wants to do the right thing if it costs them.
 
Yeah, it might be payback, but I don't think it will have a desired effect on the French oil position. I'm no francophile but as I recall, they do not respond well to this kind of intimidation. If anything, it would rally the French behind the CEOs position and harden their anger against the Russians with respect to the oil/gas routing and transpo.
 
docmirror said:
Yeah, it might be payback, but I don't think it will have a desired effect on the French oil position. I'm no francophile but as I recall, they do not respond well to this kind of intimidation. If anything, it would rally the French behind the CEOs position and harden their anger against the Russians with respect to the oil/gas routing and transpo.
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:confused: Where did you see the Russian's motivation? He did NOT want to interrupt the flow of Russian gas. If it would be anyone in a 'conspiracy' to off he guy, they would be Ukrainian.

More likely just karma coming home.
 
docmirror said:
Where did you NOT see it? :dunno:
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I do not see it anywhere from the Russian/Putinist end of it. Maybe in a old line communist putsch since the communists threw these people out, but not mainline government, it's all about the money too.
 
docmirror said:
If anything, it would rally the French behind the CEOs position and harden their anger against the Russians with respect to the oil/gas routing and transpo.
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Did you mean "against the Ukrainians"? Because it's them who were at fault as the deceased guy pointed out.
 
I would not read to much into the conspiracy side....but this I would say. To me an event like this is strait forward outcome of 15 years of Putin's rule. You have graft at all levels, starting at the very top, you have corruption at all levels starting at the very top and you have negative selection at all levels. These breed carelessness and unprofessionalism, all the way from the top down to the guy driving the plow.

As to the french guy...well..dance with the devil...
 
Phillip said:
I would not read to much into the conspiracy side....but this I would say. To me an event like this is strait forward outcome of 15 years of Putin's rule. You have graft at all levels, starting at the very top, you have corruption at all levels starting at the very top and you have negative selection at all levels. These breed carelessness and unprofessionalism, all the way from the top down to the guy driving the plow.

As to the french guy...well..dance with the devil...
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Yep, I'd bet on karma over conspiracy. You point out a good observation about Russia, now tell me where we are that different? How about anyone?
 
zaitcev said:
Did you mean "against the Ukrainians"? Because it's them who were at fault as the deceased guy pointed out.
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Um - focus on WHERE the accident happened. Vnukovo airport is in Mokba Oblast. Upon reflection, I suppose a Ukranian separatist could have been moled in place as the plow driver, but that's taking the conspiracy deal pretty far.

This has Russia stamped on it if it is political. Chess masters, and all that. ;)
 
docmirror said:
Um - focus on WHERE the accident happened. Vnukovo airport is in Mokba Oblast. Upon reflection, I suppose a Ukranian separatist could have been moled in place as the plow driver, but that's taking the conspiracy deal pretty far.

This has Russia stamped on it if it is political. Chess masters, and all that. ;)
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The IF is the important part there, this does not have the mark of intrigue on it. When you follow the money, karma comes out most likely.
 
10/20 is the international air traffic controller day, or so I am told. Must have being pretty festive in the tower, just saying...

Occam would have advised us to choose incompetence over malice...
 
docmirror said:
This has Russia stamped on it if it is political.
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You can imagine sentiment on today's Polish language forums. A sizable portion of Polish people believes Polish president died in the aircraft crash in 2010 (in Russia) as a result of Putin's conspiracy, and now this... :wink2:
 
If the airplane actually hit a plow I'd say real accident. That's a bit much to pull off as an 'accident.' Now the rabble rousing journalist in California whose car blew up umm not so much accident. Can't even remember the guy's name, how soon we forget.
 
It is sad, and I'm also sad to say that I'm not surprised. I lived there on business as an expat for a while, and wow...what an experience. So much of an experience that dash cameras are the number one vehicle accessory in Russia. Because the things that happen there are simply unbelievable, and you need to prove to the insurance company what happened.

I'm a frequent flier with S7 and Aeroflot. More than once I've been subjected to the reek of booze from the pilots prior to takeoff. I am not one to get shaken up in aviation. It takes a LOT of turbulence or some pretty poor aerobatic manuvers to get me excited. But the few most frightful experiences I've ever had in flight have been on Russian airliners.

As for the consipiracy theories, just go over and take a look at what RIA Novosti or a news search on Yandex has to say. One of the greatest things about knowing their language is being able to read the differences in the news reporting. Stunning.

Every trip I've made to that country has been an unforgettable experience.
 
Phillip said:
10/20 is the international air traffic controller day, or so I am told. Must have being pretty festive in the tower, just saying...

Occam would have advised us to choose incompetence over malice...
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Never let it be said that a well hatched conspiracy trumps recklessness and sloth. Surely human error is most likely. Occam will typically bear out, all things considered.
 
Driving a truck onto the runway in the fog sounds like one of the more difficult ways to assassinate someone.
 
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